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ANNOUNCER: Writer/Director
Martin Scorsese.

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SCORSESE: It all started from a newspaper
article about Lefty Rosenthal's car exploding.

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And then it says in the article

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that he was friends
with Tony Spilotro, his wife,

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there was a triangle, a romantic triangle,
and somehow, all of this

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was just the tip of the iceberg,
this was the culmination

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of an extraordinary history

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of what Las Vegas had become
and was no longer.

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SAM: When you love someone,
you've gotta trust them.

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There's no other way.

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ANNQOUNCER: Editor Thelma Schoonmaker.

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SCHOONMAKER: I think Marty just
always knew

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with his wonderful gut instinct for cinema

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that to begin the film with an explosion
was a great idea

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and then leave it as a mystery for people
whether he lived or died.

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But the explosion, of course,
the great Saul Bass and his wife Elaine

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when they were asked to do the titles,
of course, they took that explosion

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and made this beautiful title sequence

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of our main character
falling slowly into hell.

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It was such a great idea,
and beautifully realized.

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They showed it to us. It was perfect.

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We didn't change a thing,

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(LAUGHS)

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as usual with them.

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It was one of those
great artistic collaborations that Marty has,

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similar to the one he had
with Elmer Bernstein.

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They just understood
each other immediately.

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They both knew the entire history of film.

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And Marty was well aware
of Saul's work with Hitchcock, of course.

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So they were just
at a common understanding immediately.

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There wasn't much need to talk.

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And as usual, they just brought us
the title sequence, and it was perfect.

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I mean, one hardly had to say,

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"Maybe could we move that name eatrlier,"
or something like that.

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But it was just perfect.

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They came to Las Vegas,
shot all the Las Vegas lights

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and went away
and just came back with a little masterpiece.

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ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

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SCORSESE: The use of the Bach music,
the Saint Matthew Passion

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which is over the top.

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Originally, the film was gonna open
with the music I used at the end.

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The Animals' version
of House of the Rising Sun.

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And that's where the body was going to be
flying in the air. That was designed.

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It's in the script.

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The script is very close
to what the picture became,

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the design of De Niro's character Rothstein
flying in the air.

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And then Saul and Elaine Bass
put that title sequence together.

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I thought it'd be more interesting to blast it
and have the sense of the music

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that is sacred music, in a sense.

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Sacred music, Saint Matthew Passion.

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Sacred music, which is the soundtrack

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for a story about people who are profane

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because the idea is that,
in Christian thinking, there is no such thing.

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Every person is worth God's love.

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Every person is worth the value of their life.

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Is everyone irredeemable?
Those are my thoughts.

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I don't say that to the actor.

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But this goes on in my mind,
"Why shouldn't they have their paradise?”

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It's like the gods...
Okay, they are a step down, certainly

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in a sense or scale of who is God.

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In a sense, these are the pagan gods,
which give them a pagan paradise, in a way.

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But these guys in Chicago...

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But it's interesting that given that, too,

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these characters sin further
and lose that paradise.

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So in any event,
the way I could remember it

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when I did The Last Temptation of Christ
at Universal...

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Actually it was an independent film
picked up by Universal.

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Mike Ovitz at CAA worked out a deal

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between myself and Universal
with Tom Pollock

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to be under contract at Universal.

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And that led to working
on a number of projects at Universal,

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one of which was Cape Fear.

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Then I went off to do Age of Innocence.

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Universal was in the bidding on that.

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But they wanted to give us less
in the budget

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and Columbia Pictures wanted
fo give us more, so we went with Columbia.

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And then I owed a film to Universal.

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SAM: But it's in the desert where lots
of the town's problems are solved.

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NICKY: Got a lot of holes in the desert

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and a lot of problems
are buried in those holes.

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Except you gotta do it right.

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You gotta have the hole already dug

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before you show up
with a package in the trunk.

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ANNQOUNCER: Producer Barbara De Fina.

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DE FINA: We were developing Clockers.

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And my recollection is that after developing
it and working with Richard Price,

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Marty decided that maybe
it wasn't something that he should direct,

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Marty decided that maybe
it wasn't something that he should direct,

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you know, in a way,
it wasn't his neighborhooq,

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it wasn't his thing.

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So he felt that ultimately
Spike should do it,

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which turned out to be great,
and it was a great collaboration.

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Meanwhile, of course, he always had that
wonderful relationship with Nick Pileggi

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since Goodfellas.

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Nick hadn't actually
finished writing the book.

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So it was a much different process
developing Casino

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because with Goodfellas,
he had the book finished

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and it was an easier process adapting
from a book, which had a real structure.

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And in this case, it was like a pile of notes.

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And they were trying to write the script
when the book

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hadn't really become formed yet.

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By the time the movie was finished,
the book was finished.

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So if you look at the credits,
it says, "Based on the book."”

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But actually, they wrote the screenplay
before the book was done.

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ANNOUNCER: Author/Screenwriter
Nicholas Pileggi.

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PILEGGI: Originally I started writing
this as a book.

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I was working on Goodfellas at the time

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and once that was pretty much
out of the way,

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Marty knew I was doing this book
on the casino business

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and I was just telling these bizarre stories,
the skim, and explained this stuff to him.

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He knew some of it.

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He had always been interested
in the casino world

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because, if you think, in Marty's case,
he wanted...

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It's like a trilogy, I think.

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Mean Streets.

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Just kids, really street punks.

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I mean, he's selling Jap adapters.

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I mean, you can't be lower than that.

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And then we go to Goodfellas.

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But Goodfellas came along
quite a few years later

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and Marty was interested
in the kids from Mean Streets growing up.

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This is who they were, and he knew
who they were better than anybody.

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And he understood that while they lived big
and they could go to the Copacabana,

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it was still not...

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It was all coming down. It all crashed.

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And that was the second level,
sort of the middle-class mob.

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But he was also fascinated
by the top of the mob world.

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And that, of course, is the casinos.

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Where is the mob
better situated in those days

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than Las Vegas and the casinos?

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'Cause they, through their connections,
actually own the casinos.

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Their names couldn't be on them
because they were crooked.

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But they own the casinos
and skim them of millions of dollars.

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NICKY: They'd even take cash
right out of the drop-boxes.

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And it was up to this guy right here,

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standing in front of $2 million...

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ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

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SCORSESE: The whole film
was really carefully planned out.

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It was restructured in the editing,
for a number of reasons.

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We often do that.
We couldn't do it in this film.

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A number of others, Raging Bull.

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The Temptation of Christ, we didn't.

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But sometimes you take a sequence...

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Also, the style of a picture,
you could move things around

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if you stay within certain time periods.

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One of the things
is the documentary aspect of the movie,

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how things work in Vegas,
we found we had to move that up earlier.

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I had it in the middle of the film.

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One sequence about a fellow
coming out of a cab, going inside,

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putting the money in a bag and going out,
as simple as that. That's the way it was.

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NICKY: Now, that suitcase was going
straight to one place,

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right to Kansas City, which was as close

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to Las Vegas as the Midwest bosses
could go...

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ANNOUNCER: Thelma Schoonmaker.

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SCHOONMAKER: We did do some
restructuring in Casino

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and we rewrote a lot in that.

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And that happened again in Kundun

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where we were able to restructure a lot

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because it was a court

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and everybody
was always wearing the same clothes.

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(LAUGHS)

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They were always dressed like monks.

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And the Lord Chamberlain always wore
the same clothes

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and the court always looked
basically the same until they go into exile.

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So we have done
a lot of restructuring and rewriting

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in some of the films recently.

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But it's always fascinating,
our conversations in the editing room.

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They're often about life
or things that Marty is worried about.

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So it's a constant rich thing for me

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that our discussions there
are so wide-ranging

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or we'll talk about history or archaeology

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or remark on films that are on TCM
with no sound running.

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I'll look over and see a great shot,
and Marty will talk to me about that.

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It's been the way a friendship develops
over a long period of time.

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NICKY: ...the oulffit's top boss.

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You got a round figure on it?

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NICKY: Definitely the most important guy
in this room.

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ANNQUNCER: Barbara De Fina.

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DE FINA: The movie,
it does have a lot of information in it.

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Especially at the beginning,
there's a lot of back-story,

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a lot of explanation

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about how the casino works
and how they were skimming the money.

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I think, to get through all that,
it needed a lot of energy.

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It needed something to keep you moving.

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And so the camera is moving all the time,

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and hopefully seamlessly moving,

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and keeping you constantly interested
and showing you different things

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and hopefully you're absorbing everything
without getting bored

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and overwhelmed,
and then there's voiceover.

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So there's just a lot of energy,

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sort of wheeling you through
to get all the information that you need

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to get into the real narrative.

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ANNOUNCER: Thelma Schoonmaker.

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SCHOONMAKER: I think Marty had hoped
that we could show

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what was going on,
how the skim was happening in Las Vegas.

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But we found after some screenings

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that we probably had to say a little more
in voiceover than we thought.

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So that became a big part
of making the movie,

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writing, rewriting the voiceover
to get it just right

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so it had a personal flavor,
but was still telling the story.

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And, of course, Nick Pileggi
was working constantly with us on that.

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And we had to re-record
over and over again the actors,

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which happened also on Age of Innocence

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with the voiceover, we kept rewriting,
re-recording it as the film went on.

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So we ended up with a lot more voiceover
in the beginning of the film

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than was originally intended.

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But it's filled with such flavor, you know.

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(LAUGHS)

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Particularly Joe Pesci's lines are...

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They're so surprising.
I mean, the way he describes things.

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Just this kind of slap in the face,
a good slap in the face.

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So that became a big part of the film,
making the voiceover work right.

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ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

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SCORSESE: In terms of revisiting

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in a sense, "a gangster genre”

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and deal with it, in my mind,
you've got these extraordinary characters

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who are given paradise by the gods
in Chicago.

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This group of men who rule over Chicago,

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Zeus and the others, they're given paradise.

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And they sin.
They sin and they lose paradise.

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And paradise then crumbles
and collapses all around them.

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NICKY: They wanted him because Ace ate,
slept and breathed gambling.

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ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

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PILEGGI: They were given
four Las Vegas casinos to run.

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All these casinos do
is churn out millions of dollars a day.

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And they screwed it up.

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That's because these guys
are always gonna screw it up.

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They are so willful
and so in need of immediate gratlification.

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And so blind as to
what the consequences of their acts are

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that in the end,
they screw it up and it's so,

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I guess you could call it biblical,
or you can call it Darwinian.

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But whatever it is, it makes for great drama.

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And I think Marty agrees.
I think it makes for great drama,

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00:12:49,660 --> 00:12:52,830
that makes for pretty good movies,
if you can get it right.

235
00:12:52,913 --> 00:12:54,456
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

236
00:12:54,540 --> 00:12:59,169
SCORSESE: It's sort of the devouring
of all material objects.

237
00:13:00,045 --> 00:13:04,925
This extraordinary need
for accumulation of wealth,

238
00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:10,180
accumulation of objects,
accumulation of, what, everything physical.

239
00:13:11,223 --> 00:13:14,518
And ultimately, there's never enough.

240
00:13:14,601 --> 00:13:19,356
And the Vegas of the '70s in this film was...

241
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,442
That's what the main impulse was about.

242
00:13:21,525 --> 00:13:23,861
Never enough for anybody, the greed.

243
00:13:24,111 --> 00:13:25,654
It's part of the human condition.

244
00:13:25,738 --> 00:13:28,532
They're not the only greedy ones.
We see it all around,

245
00:13:28,615 --> 00:13:31,493
especially in governments,
and certainly in big business,

246
00:13:31,577 --> 00:13:34,371
even much more so than organized crime.

247
00:13:34,538 --> 00:13:37,666
Particularly, it's been proven
in American society recently.

248
00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:41,879
Over and over again in American society,
and also other cultures around the world.

249
00:13:41,962 --> 00:13:46,800
But in any event, how much is enough?
When do you get enough in this life,

250
00:13:46,925 --> 00:13:48,927
especially in a society that is

251
00:13:50,929 --> 00:13:54,975
more and more ruled
by materialism, consumerism?

252
00:13:55,225 --> 00:13:58,854
And then, let's say there's a spiritual side
to America. There's faith.

253
00:13:58,937 --> 00:14:01,607
Well, faith is one thing. Faith is very good.

254
00:14:02,107 --> 00:14:04,902
But the Dalai Lama had said,
"It's good to have faith,

255
00:14:04,985 --> 00:14:07,237
"but you also have to have
spiritual development.”

256
00:14:07,321 --> 00:14:08,906
And that doesn't necessarily mean

257
00:14:08,989 --> 00:14:11,575
that anybody with faith
has spiritual development.

258
00:14:11,658 --> 00:14:13,243
What is spiritual development?

259
00:14:13,327 --> 00:14:16,622
In my mind, it's thinking beyond yourself.

260
00:14:17,414 --> 00:14:20,709
I'm not saying I could do it.
I'm saying that's what interests me.

261
00:14:20,793 --> 00:14:24,004
And I made pictures like that
about characters like the Dalai Lama,

262
00:14:24,088 --> 00:14:25,381
The Last Temptation of Christ.

263
00:14:25,464 --> 00:14:28,842
Even in Mean Streets, there are certain
aspects about what you give,

264
00:14:28,926 --> 00:14:30,219
are you your brother's keeper?

265
00:14:30,302 --> 00:14:32,054
And in this film, too, in Casino,

266
00:14:32,137 --> 00:14:35,307
they are friends,
all three of them are friends.

267
00:14:35,474 --> 00:14:37,476
They're close friends.

268
00:14:37,810 --> 00:14:39,937
They're irritable with each other.

269
00:14:40,646 --> 00:14:42,231
Joe Pesci's character.

270
00:14:42,314 --> 00:14:45,400
One has one way of doing things.
The other has the other way.

271
00:14:45,484 --> 00:14:47,736
And so there's a relationship there

272
00:14:47,820 --> 00:14:50,280
and they do give to each other
in different ways.

273
00:14:50,364 --> 00:14:54,326
But ultimately it spins out of control
because there, there are no limits.

274
00:14:54,451 --> 00:14:57,204
You see, once they take over
as the gods of this place,

275
00:14:57,287 --> 00:14:59,456
and what makes them gods?
They make the place run.

276
00:14:59,540 --> 00:15:04,086
And what does that mean? It means
more money being made for the wiseguys.

277
00:15:04,169 --> 00:15:06,088
More money being made
for organized crime.

278
00:15:06,171 --> 00:15:07,714
That means they're successes.

279
00:15:07,798 --> 00:15:10,467
And when they get that,
they could do anything they want.

280
00:15:10,551 --> 00:15:12,928
In a sense,
they're given the sinners' paradise.

281
00:15:13,011 --> 00:15:15,597
But they lose that because they become
even worse sinners. That's right.

282
00:15:15,681 --> 00:15:16,765
(LAUGHS)

283
00:15:16,849 --> 00:15:19,601
And I thought, you know, that was the idea.

284
00:15:19,685 --> 00:15:22,729
As you see them, they may have had souls
when they starteq,

285
00:15:22,813 --> 00:15:24,064
something of a soul,

286
00:15:24,148 --> 00:15:27,526
but as the film progresses,
they start to lose those souls.

287
00:15:30,571 --> 00:15:33,115
Ace, tell him the line on the Bears game.

288
00:15:33,198 --> 00:15:36,034
- Eight.
- If he don't know, nobody knows.

289
00:15:36,743 --> 00:15:38,453
ANNQOUNCER: Actor Frank Vincent.

290
00:15:38,537 --> 00:15:43,500
VINCENT: Raging Bull, Marty, he took Joe
and I out of a little small film

291
00:15:43,584 --> 00:15:46,587
and saw what we had together
and utilized it.

292
00:15:46,712 --> 00:15:51,383
So his gift is actually casting
and working with the actors,

293
00:15:51,508 --> 00:15:53,969
the technical stuff,
and he's very knowledgeable.

294
00:15:54,052 --> 00:15:57,806
You can sit down
and discuss this with him and go over it

295
00:15:57,890 --> 00:16:01,310
and say, "How do you like this idea?"
And bring something to him.

296
00:16:01,393 --> 00:16:05,939
'Cause I think that a lot of stuff
that Joe did in Goodfellas

297
00:16:06,064 --> 00:16:09,818
was stuff that he
brought to Marty, you know.

298
00:16:09,902 --> 00:16:13,030
And there's a scene in Casino that we did

299
00:16:13,238 --> 00:16:17,075
at the bar with Bob, Joe, and l,
when the guy with the pencil...

300
00:16:17,534 --> 00:16:20,579
That was all thought of on the set.

301
00:16:20,871 --> 00:16:23,207
And we were rehearsing it
and talking about it

302
00:16:23,290 --> 00:16:25,292
and that came out of an improv,

303
00:16:25,417 --> 00:16:30,464
Marty had the sense of seeing it right away
and saying, "Yeah, that's good. Keep that."”

304
00:16:31,298 --> 00:16:33,133
Nicky, take it easy.

305
00:16:33,467 --> 00:16:35,427
(MAN WHIMPERING)

306
00:16:41,266 --> 00:16:44,353
SAM: While I tried to figure out
why the guy said what he said

307
00:16:44,436 --> 00:16:45,729
Nicky just hit him.

308
00:16:45,812 --> 00:16:47,481
No matter how big a guy might be...

309
00:16:47,564 --> 00:16:48,815
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

310
00:16:48,899 --> 00:16:52,110
PILEGGI: Never again would wiseguys
be able to control

311
00:16:52,236 --> 00:16:54,988
a casino in Las Vegas to this day.

312
00:16:55,113 --> 00:16:57,658
Now they no longer do.
That ended it for them.

313
00:16:57,741 --> 00:16:59,701
And the only reason it ended, by the way,

314
00:16:59,785 --> 00:17:03,121
is that as a result
of that trial and that case,

315
00:17:04,414 --> 00:17:08,418
the Teamsters' Pension Fund was taken over
by the Federal Government.

316
00:17:10,128 --> 00:17:13,507
The mob could no longer control

317
00:17:13,632 --> 00:17:15,759
where the pension fund lent money.

318
00:17:15,842 --> 00:17:17,886
That's the way they controlled the casinos.

319
00:17:17,970 --> 00:17:21,098
They controlled members on the trustees

320
00:17:21,181 --> 00:17:23,183
of the central state's pension fund.

321
00:17:23,267 --> 00:17:25,352
They were all controlled by mob guys.

322
00:17:25,435 --> 00:17:29,982
And, not all but, I think,
six out of eight or four out of six,

323
00:17:30,107 --> 00:17:31,858
l can't remember, but the majority.

324
00:17:31,942 --> 00:17:36,321
And therefore,
they were able to lend $62 million

325
00:17:36,989 --> 00:17:39,783
to Ace's friends

326
00:17:40,367 --> 00:17:41,785
who then bought the casino,

327
00:17:41,868 --> 00:17:45,247
propped a guy up there
as the legitimate owner

328
00:17:45,330 --> 00:17:49,376
and brought Ace in to run it because
that guy didn't know how to run a casino.

329
00:17:49,459 --> 00:17:52,129
And Ace didn't even wanna do it,
he didn't wanna go.

330
00:17:52,212 --> 00:17:56,717
But he wound up going 'cause
you don't say no to those guys that often.

331
00:17:57,009 --> 00:17:59,845
But if you wind up just covering

332
00:17:59,970 --> 00:18:02,931
the financial manipulations
of the Teamster Pension Fund

333
00:18:03,015 --> 00:18:07,936
and the skim
and all that stuff done abstractly

334
00:18:08,020 --> 00:18:11,732
like a business report,
there's no way into a movie there.

335
00:18:11,857 --> 00:18:15,819
There's hardly a way into a book.
It becomes basically a treatise.

336
00:18:16,028 --> 00:18:19,114
It becomes something you might read
in a business school.

337
00:18:19,197 --> 00:18:21,992
Why this didn't work?
Well it didn't work because we...

338
00:18:22,075 --> 00:18:25,329
But once you can humanize the people

339
00:18:25,412 --> 00:18:28,040
because all of this is being done by people.

340
00:18:28,165 --> 00:18:31,293
It may be numbers,
but it's numbers being written by people,

341
00:18:31,376 --> 00:18:32,961
being accumulated by people.

342
00:18:33,045 --> 00:18:36,506
Once you see the people who are involved

343
00:18:36,590 --> 00:18:41,386
and then you find that they have
unbelievable soap-opera lives...

344
00:18:41,678 --> 00:18:44,848
And it's these soap-opera lives,
this insanity

345
00:18:44,931 --> 00:18:48,894
that brings down a $200 million apparatus.

346
00:18:49,019 --> 00:18:50,479
It's just fascinating.

347
00:18:50,562 --> 00:18:55,233
And it's the story, the narrative,
the human story

348
00:18:55,525 --> 00:18:57,778
that gets you into the big story.

349
00:18:57,903 --> 00:19:03,033
It makes the boringness
of actuarial numbers

350
00:19:03,450 --> 00:19:08,121
and the business stuff,
it makes that stuff fascinating.

351
00:19:08,246 --> 00:19:12,250
That's the key. You gotta get in
with the real story and real people.

352
00:19:12,459 --> 00:19:14,628
And I talked to these guys.

353
00:19:15,128 --> 00:19:18,090
I got their language. I got them on tape.

354
00:19:18,882 --> 00:19:22,552
I have the way they sound,
and you can't write that

355
00:19:22,886 --> 00:19:25,722
in film school in Malibu,
at the side of a mountain,

356
00:19:25,806 --> 00:19:29,101
no matter how many hallucinogens
you take, you can't write

357
00:19:29,226 --> 00:19:32,562
the way a guy
out of the Chicago gangs reports.

358
00:19:32,771 --> 00:19:36,274
Or a gambler in New York, you can't...

359
00:19:36,608 --> 00:19:39,903
So when you've got that body of dialogue,
which it is,

360
00:19:39,986 --> 00:19:43,949
it's just all that language,
how can you not use it?

361
00:19:44,616 --> 00:19:46,785
Because he is telling you the story.

362
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,913
It's priceless.

363
00:19:50,664 --> 00:19:54,126
So to then put it all
in trumped-up dialogue

364
00:19:54,251 --> 00:19:56,294
and try to make it fit,

365
00:19:56,503 --> 00:20:00,173
there's no reason to do that,
you've got such a natural expression.

366
00:20:00,257 --> 00:20:04,803
It's not me, I didn't write that. The guy...
l re-typed it, I cleaned it up.

367
00:20:05,137 --> 00:20:08,807
I abridged stuff,
l took out the stuff about his mother-in-law.

368
00:20:09,349 --> 00:20:11,810
And Marty and l, we made it

369
00:20:12,269 --> 00:20:14,521
So that it was a part of the narrative.

370
00:20:14,604 --> 00:20:18,191
You're hearing those guys talk.
When they talk, you are hearing...

371
00:20:18,316 --> 00:20:22,028
You may have never met a gangster,
but when you hear Henry Hill talk

372
00:20:22,154 --> 00:20:25,574
or when you hear Ace talk
or the Joe Pesci character talk,

373
00:20:25,657 --> 00:20:27,451
that's the way they talk.

374
00:20:27,534 --> 00:20:29,911
SAM: But I knew the trick
with whales like Ichikawa

375
00:20:29,995 --> 00:20:32,247
was that they can't bet small for long.

376
00:20:32,330 --> 00:20:34,583
He didn't think of it as winning $10,000,

377
00:20:34,666 --> 00:20:36,835
he thought of it as losing $90,000.

378
00:20:37,544 --> 00:20:38,879
So, he upped his bets.

379
00:20:38,962 --> 00:20:40,088
ANNOUNCER: Thelma Schoonmaker.

380
00:20:40,172 --> 00:20:42,299
SCHOONMAKER: Casino, particularly, is a
film that Marty

381
00:20:42,382 --> 00:20:44,593
had thought out very carefully,

382
00:20:44,676 --> 00:20:48,138
all of those montages,
and all his camera moves he had designed

383
00:20:48,221 --> 00:20:52,142
so they would cut together.
They were very specific, very extreme,

384
00:20:53,435 --> 00:20:56,438
very hard to do. But a lot of that,

385
00:20:56,521 --> 00:20:59,858
particularly the opening montages,
were thought out almost like

386
00:20:59,941 --> 00:21:02,360
he did the Raging Bull fight sequences

387
00:21:02,486 --> 00:21:05,906
So that basically for me it was a matter
of cutting them together

388
00:21:05,989 --> 00:21:08,700
and then just finessing, a little bit, the cut.

389
00:21:08,825 --> 00:21:11,745
But the structure of them
was already thought out by him.

390
00:21:11,828 --> 00:21:16,124
One example I use sometimes
because it's the easiest to understand

391
00:21:16,208 --> 00:21:19,044
is when he has the montage
where he shows

392
00:21:19,169 --> 00:21:21,505
how everybody is watching everybody.

393
00:21:22,881 --> 00:21:27,302
And that I really, literally,
only had to cut off the head and the tail,

394
00:21:27,385 --> 00:21:31,640
stick it together and it worked already.
Because he'd already planned out

395
00:21:31,723 --> 00:21:36,061
how he was going to go from the dealer
to the boxman and to the pit boss to the...

396
00:21:36,144 --> 00:21:38,271
They were all swish pans
and all I had to do

397
00:21:38,355 --> 00:21:42,108
was cut off the end of it, stick it together,
and it worked beautifully.

398
00:21:42,192 --> 00:21:45,570
So that's really good directing
when you're thinking like that

399
00:21:47,072 --> 00:21:51,409
and imagining a whole sequence
and then carrying it out beautifully.

400
00:21:52,577 --> 00:21:54,329
ANNQUNCER: Barbara De Fina.

401
00:21:54,412 --> 00:21:56,623
DE FINA: Nick worked a lot with the real Ace,

402
00:21:56,706 --> 00:21:58,208
I don't know that he ever actually
really came to the set

403
00:21:58,208 --> 00:21:59,918
I don't know that he ever actually
really came to the set

404
00:22:00,085 --> 00:22:03,672
or was close during the filming.

405
00:22:03,755 --> 00:22:06,925
I think it was more
in the script stage and the book stage.

406
00:22:07,008 --> 00:22:10,095
Because, again, this ultimately was a book

407
00:22:10,178 --> 00:22:11,847
that the movie was based on.

408
00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:15,767
So Nick did most of his research
and worked with the real Ace.

409
00:22:16,226 --> 00:22:17,936
And the story

410
00:22:18,019 --> 00:22:21,231
I think the highlights of it are true.

411
00:22:21,439 --> 00:22:24,609
Of course it's hard sometimes to...

412
00:22:25,777 --> 00:22:28,864
You need to always have things happen
that are truthful

413
00:22:28,947 --> 00:22:30,365
and that the character might do.

414
00:22:30,448 --> 00:22:33,326
It's hard to sometimes always stick totally
to the truth

415
00:22:33,410 --> 00:22:38,290
because it's just not cinematic and
sometimes it's what happened on Tuesday

416
00:22:38,373 --> 00:22:41,042
but in our movie it's gonna have to happen
on Friday.

417
00:22:41,126 --> 00:22:44,796
And some people will actually
be very offended by that. And upset by it.

418
00:22:44,879 --> 00:22:47,299
It was Nick's job

419
00:22:47,424 --> 00:22:50,635
to make him understand
and to get him to approve.

420
00:22:51,136 --> 00:22:55,473
Because he did read the script
and he did have to approve the script.

421
00:22:55,765 --> 00:22:59,394
Which always makes studios very nervous
and writers very nervous.

422
00:22:59,769 --> 00:23:02,230
But it was sort of Nick's job to do that.

423
00:23:02,314 --> 00:23:06,484
And he did it.
He's a great writer and a great storyteller.

424
00:23:06,943 --> 00:23:09,738
And I think if the story felt truthful

425
00:23:09,821 --> 00:23:12,490
and that's what was important to him.

426
00:23:12,991 --> 00:23:17,329
And I think legally to simplify it...

427
00:23:17,662 --> 00:23:21,166
A lot of people were dead

428
00:23:21,666 --> 00:23:26,004
which means that there was no issue
getting releases.

429
00:23:26,338 --> 00:23:28,673
Anyone that's been convicted of a crime

430
00:23:29,466 --> 00:23:32,677
you really don't need
to get a release from them.

431
00:23:32,802 --> 00:23:35,597
So it sort of narrows down who...

432
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,682
But all the names were changed.

433
00:23:37,932 --> 00:23:41,519
Anybody that's...
Like somebody's wife for example,

434
00:23:41,770 --> 00:23:45,857
we always have to be very careful
to portray them in a way that's respectful

435
00:23:46,024 --> 00:23:50,278
and not to involve them in the crime
if they weren't really involved in the crime.

436
00:23:50,362 --> 00:23:54,282
Or to even suggest that they
might have known what was going on.

437
00:23:55,492 --> 00:23:58,703
But that's what
the studio legal department does

438
00:23:58,828 --> 00:24:01,623
and all the names
were changed for that reason.

439
00:24:02,207 --> 00:24:03,917
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

440
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,879
SCORSESE: There's no doubt about it
that it was kind of a sequel

441
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,715
to Goodfellas.

442
00:24:11,216 --> 00:24:15,387
Not a direct sequel but it deals
with that world, but only at a bigger scale.

443
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,308
And it's a film of excess. A world of excess.

444
00:24:20,892 --> 00:24:23,061
Excess voiceover, excess color.

445
00:24:23,353 --> 00:24:24,729
Excess music.

446
00:24:24,813 --> 00:24:27,816
Excess music constantly.
Constant music throughout.

447
00:24:27,899 --> 00:24:29,317
I had a big chart on the wall

448
00:24:29,401 --> 00:24:32,821
of which piece of music I'd use.
Some music I've used before in pictures.

449
00:24:32,904 --> 00:24:36,825
Robbie Robertson helped me. At times
he suggested... Even the music from

450
00:24:36,908 --> 00:24:38,159
Le Mépris, he gave it to me.

451
00:24:38,243 --> 00:24:41,246
I said, "Why not? Why can't we just take
music from Le Mépris?

452
00:24:41,329 --> 00:24:45,792
"Why can't we just take Jimmy Smith doing
Elmer Bernstein's Walk on the Wild Side?"

453
00:24:46,209 --> 00:24:49,546
Because, in sense,
this is a world without limits

454
00:24:50,422 --> 00:24:52,090
in Vegas, there's these characters.

455
00:24:52,173 --> 00:24:54,843
We can take music,
and this music is part of their world.

456
00:24:54,926 --> 00:24:58,680
They could take it, snatch it, throw it away,
do what they want with it,

457
00:24:58,763 --> 00:25:01,433
consume it, burn it, anything.

458
00:25:01,599 --> 00:25:04,686
And so the wall-to-wall music
was very special, especially

459
00:25:04,769 --> 00:25:07,522
between Le Mépris
and Devo's version of Satisfaction.

460
00:25:07,605 --> 00:25:09,441
That was very interesting.

461
00:25:10,108 --> 00:25:14,070
And with Goodfellas and Casino,
l was playing around with the idea of

462
00:25:15,739 --> 00:25:18,533
movies that are not just

463
00:25:19,117 --> 00:25:23,037
dramatic narrative
but also have documentary aspects to them.

464
00:25:23,455 --> 00:25:25,373
A lot of people do that, but

465
00:25:26,916 --> 00:25:30,462
some people say that it's just
a magazine story, just journalism.

466
00:25:30,545 --> 00:25:32,213
Not necessarily.

467
00:25:32,797 --> 00:25:35,050
In Goodfellas, Pauline Kael said

468
00:25:35,133 --> 00:25:38,636
that it's Scarface without Scarface.
l said, "That's the point.

469
00:25:39,304 --> 00:25:40,972
"It's the lifestyle.

470
00:25:41,222 --> 00:25:45,727
"You're gonna now live with these people.
It's not just one, there are many."

471
00:25:45,810 --> 00:25:47,479
And the same thing here.

472
00:25:47,645 --> 00:25:50,148
That was generally the idea

473
00:25:50,398 --> 00:25:53,234
and also to make a very fast three-hour film.

474
00:25:53,318 --> 00:25:54,319
(CHUCKLES)

475
00:25:54,402 --> 00:25:58,364
We think it's fast. There are some scenes
in the middle where people stop and talk

476
00:25:58,448 --> 00:26:00,867
but other than that,
it seems to be moving a lot.

477
00:26:00,950 --> 00:26:04,120
Nick and I took that style we developed

478
00:26:04,913 --> 00:26:08,333
in Goodfellas,
Wiseguy, the book he wrote

479
00:26:08,458 --> 00:26:10,418
and took it to another level here.

480
00:26:10,502 --> 00:26:13,588
And took also the depiction
of the American underworld

481
00:26:13,671 --> 00:26:16,007
to a bigger level, as I said.

482
00:26:16,466 --> 00:26:19,469
And it's based on riffs, in a way,

483
00:26:19,594 --> 00:26:22,305
a man talking, telling stories,

484
00:26:22,806 --> 00:26:24,933
going off on tangents and digressions.

485
00:26:25,016 --> 00:26:28,269
And how far could you go off
on a digression and still bring it in

486
00:26:28,353 --> 00:26:29,437
back in it.

487
00:26:29,521 --> 00:26:33,691
Cut it to a certain point, fast, and bring
it back into the main line of the narrative.

488
00:26:33,775 --> 00:26:36,611
Some people have agreed that
that happened in the film,

489
00:26:36,694 --> 00:26:40,532
others said that's one of the problems
with the film, that it didn't happen.

490
00:26:40,615 --> 00:26:43,952
That's the nature, the way I wanted it
the way I am speaking now.

491
00:26:44,035 --> 00:26:46,871
Give you an example, pull it from here,
pull it from there.

492
00:26:46,955 --> 00:26:50,041
Go back on to the narrative straight,
straight line.

493
00:26:50,125 --> 00:26:52,127
SAM: But one thing I didn't understand...

494
00:26:52,210 --> 00:26:53,461
ANNQUNCER: Barbara De Fina.

495
00:26:53,545 --> 00:26:55,547
DE FINA: Marty hates the word "act.”

496
00:26:55,630 --> 00:26:59,634
He refused to talk about acts,
and Casino is very sprawling.

497
00:26:59,884 --> 00:27:03,138
Part of it, I think, really had to do
with them not having

498
00:27:03,221 --> 00:27:04,722
a finished book.

499
00:27:04,848 --> 00:27:07,392
And so it sort of developed...

500
00:27:08,726 --> 00:27:10,645
It's not episodic, I think.

501
00:27:10,728 --> 00:27:12,939
You would think it might become episodic.

502
00:27:13,022 --> 00:27:16,734
I don't feel that it's episodic,
but it does have a very loose structure.

503
00:27:16,818 --> 00:27:19,821
If you think of acts as a beginning,
a middle, and an end,

504
00:27:19,904 --> 00:27:23,324
it has that. Whether they all start and begin
in the right place,

505
00:27:23,408 --> 00:27:24,742
l don't know, but

506
00:27:24,868 --> 00:27:28,830
he and Nick worked really closely together,
they really do write together.

507
00:27:28,913 --> 00:27:31,291
Nick would write pages
and fax them to Marty

508
00:27:31,374 --> 00:27:33,751
and Marty would make notes
and fax them back.

509
00:27:33,835 --> 00:27:36,337
Or sometimes they would just
be in a room together.

510
00:27:36,421 --> 00:27:39,257
They really did write everything together.

511
00:27:39,424 --> 00:27:40,842
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

512
00:27:40,925 --> 00:27:44,179
PILEGGI: We'd meet at the old Drake Hotel,
or the...

513
00:27:44,262 --> 00:27:48,433
And we had a suite and I had my computer,
we had a printer there.

514
00:27:48,725 --> 00:27:49,559
We just moved all that stuff in.

515
00:27:49,559 --> 00:27:50,476
We just moved all that stuff in.

516
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,521
It's just two of us, nobody else.
And sometimes Marty's dog.

517
00:27:53,605 --> 00:27:56,107
That was basically it.

518
00:27:56,608 --> 00:27:59,527
t had already outlined the book
to some degree,

519
00:27:59,611 --> 00:28:01,696
Marty had gone over the outline.

520
00:28:01,779 --> 00:28:05,033
And we did this with Goodfellas as well,
Wiseguy, the book.

521
00:28:05,283 --> 00:28:10,038
We try to say,
"What is the narrative storyline, here?”

522
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,542
I'll come up with a version,
and he'll come up with a version

523
00:28:14,626 --> 00:28:17,962
and we kind of move it around
until we have the structure.

524
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:21,299
I think the structure in Casino

525
00:28:21,633 --> 00:28:24,886
was not my book structure,
it was a movie structure.

526
00:28:25,428 --> 00:28:29,724
And the structure in Casino was,
l would say, 95% Marty's.

527
00:28:30,266 --> 00:28:32,268
He just had a vision.

528
00:28:32,977 --> 00:28:34,395
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

529
00:28:34,479 --> 00:28:37,482
SCORSESE: As one great filmmaker,
whom I love, told me,

530
00:28:37,565 --> 00:28:40,151
he said it's like watching...

531
00:28:40,902 --> 00:28:43,404
Riding a chariot and six wild horses

532
00:28:43,488 --> 00:28:46,407
always threatening to go out of control
at any given time.

533
00:28:46,491 --> 00:28:49,911
Trying to keep it together
and always living on the edge.

534
00:28:49,994 --> 00:28:52,080
The horses are gonna just run rampant,

535
00:28:52,163 --> 00:28:55,375
the chariot's gonna go flying,
everything's gonna come crashing down.

536
00:28:55,458 --> 00:28:57,543
And as the film... That was the idea

537
00:28:57,627 --> 00:29:00,463
of shaping it with many asides

538
00:29:00,755 --> 00:29:03,591
taken through the narrative

539
00:29:03,758 --> 00:29:06,052
by the device
of the use of voiceover again

540
00:29:06,135 --> 00:29:09,847
which we developed in a number
of my movies. I like voiceover a lot

541
00:29:09,973 --> 00:29:12,517
and Goodfellas has that.

542
00:29:12,809 --> 00:29:14,686
It's like just

543
00:29:15,270 --> 00:29:18,439
a street kid telling a story
on a street corner, in a way.

544
00:29:18,523 --> 00:29:20,358
They are great actors.

545
00:29:20,483 --> 00:29:23,945
Often, your life depends on it,
on the street to be a good actor.

546
00:29:24,028 --> 00:29:28,283
So we just took that idea
and pushed it further to its nth degree

547
00:29:28,366 --> 00:29:31,536
particularly at certain points
when Joe Pesci's character

548
00:29:31,619 --> 00:29:34,289
starts to speak on the voiceover track.

549
00:29:34,372 --> 00:29:39,043
And they seem to argue
or conltradict each other.

550
00:29:40,712 --> 00:29:42,130
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

551
00:29:42,213 --> 00:29:44,549
PILEGGI: The part played
by Frank Vincent is actually

552
00:29:44,632 --> 00:29:48,761
the guy we were using as a technical
advisor, his real name is Frank Cullofta.

553
00:29:48,845 --> 00:29:51,723
He had testified
and gone into the witness program.

554
00:29:51,973 --> 00:29:54,350
I knew him and he had been

555
00:29:55,727 --> 00:29:59,731
really smart and very knowledgeable
and had changed his life.

556
00:30:00,565 --> 00:30:04,485
Frank was the first one who talked,
and I got unbelievable stuff from him.

557
00:30:04,569 --> 00:30:07,989
And also, he was like that with Nicky.

558
00:30:08,865 --> 00:30:11,576
So I got a lot of the early Nicky stuff,

559
00:30:11,993 --> 00:30:15,163
what Nicky said here, what Nicky said there,
l got that from

560
00:30:15,246 --> 00:30:17,373
the early Frank stuff.

561
00:30:17,582 --> 00:30:19,709
But then Ace started talking.

562
00:30:20,585 --> 00:30:23,046
And then I wound up

563
00:30:23,254 --> 00:30:27,508
with tape recordings,
long tapes of Nicky talking

564
00:30:27,592 --> 00:30:30,428
FBI stuff that came out in court.

565
00:30:30,511 --> 00:30:34,265
And people who really knew Nicky
started explaining to me what he said

566
00:30:34,682 --> 00:30:37,268
and when he said it.
So you begin to build...

567
00:30:38,061 --> 00:30:42,607
The original early draft we used,
the voiceover was the guy I had.

568
00:30:43,066 --> 00:30:47,737
But as I got more voices,
as these people began to open up a little

569
00:30:49,364 --> 00:30:51,866
then I was able to go to
the different voiceovers.

570
00:30:51,949 --> 00:30:53,451
In the end

571
00:30:53,534 --> 00:30:56,496
we had one voiceover,
then we realized we had a couple.

572
00:30:56,579 --> 00:30:59,457
We had used a couple of voiceovers
in Goodfellas.

573
00:30:59,749 --> 00:31:02,794
A lot of people think, "You can have
only one voiceover.”

574
00:31:02,877 --> 00:31:06,172
But in Goodfellas you have Henry
and you also have his wife.

575
00:31:06,714 --> 00:31:09,801
And because I got Henry's wife Karen

576
00:31:10,051 --> 00:31:13,638
to tell us everything.
She said, "He gave me the gun

577
00:31:14,639 --> 00:31:18,434
“and it was heavy and it turned me on.”

578
00:31:19,268 --> 00:31:21,896
You can't make that up.
That was Karen, actually.

579
00:31:21,979 --> 00:31:24,732
That was the key to their relationship.

580
00:31:24,816 --> 00:31:27,902
The fact that he was a gangster
and he had beaten up this guy

581
00:31:27,985 --> 00:31:31,656
who had brutalized her and that he gave
her the gun to put in a milk box.

582
00:31:31,739 --> 00:31:35,076
I could never think
that somebody would give a gun

583
00:31:35,493 --> 00:31:37,912
to a girl from the Five Towns
or Four Towns

584
00:31:37,995 --> 00:31:41,165
and she's gonna put it in a milk box
and get turned on by it.

585
00:31:41,249 --> 00:31:42,708
Who could think that up?

586
00:31:42,792 --> 00:31:46,003
So, that's what the point is,
if you do the journalism

587
00:31:46,170 --> 00:31:49,507
and get these people
who are the subjects of your narrative,

588
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:52,760
get them to open up
and tell you what's in their hearts

589
00:31:52,844 --> 00:31:55,972
and what they were really thinking,
what turned them on.

590
00:31:57,265 --> 00:32:00,685
How can you not put that
in their voice in the movie?

591
00:32:00,768 --> 00:32:02,520
It's so revealing.

592
00:32:02,603 --> 00:32:06,274
They sometimes tell you these things
and they don't know how legitimate it is.

593
00:32:06,357 --> 00:32:08,943
You're taking notes,
you don't know how revealing it is.

594
00:32:09,026 --> 00:32:12,029
Until you dress it all in the screenplay

595
00:32:12,113 --> 00:32:13,531
and in the scenes.

596
00:32:13,865 --> 00:32:16,117
The scenes are all talk and it's all

597
00:32:16,951 --> 00:32:18,870
people revealing themselves.

598
00:32:19,662 --> 00:32:22,623
And I had been working on the book

599
00:32:22,874 --> 00:32:26,502
but hadn't finished it. It was only when

600
00:32:26,878 --> 00:32:30,339
we decided to work on the mood
and Marty had a window

601
00:32:30,506 --> 00:32:34,343
that we could work on the movie
and suddenly Bob was interested in it.

602
00:32:34,552 --> 00:32:38,389
That's the thing that made the book work
because that's what opened up

603
00:32:38,473 --> 00:32:42,059
all of these people who had been distant.

604
00:32:42,351 --> 00:32:45,104
Not at all as forthcoming
as I needed them to be.

605
00:32:45,188 --> 00:32:49,150
I would have probably had to spend
another two years doing it

606
00:32:49,233 --> 00:32:52,904
and I still don't think I would've gotten
what I got in this book.

607
00:32:53,196 --> 00:32:57,241
Whether it's good or bad or what,
l wouldn't have got the access to people

608
00:32:57,325 --> 00:33:00,578
that I got once it was announced
that it was a movie.

609
00:33:00,661 --> 00:33:04,665
And that Bob De Niro was in the movie.
It's idiotic.

610
00:33:04,916 --> 00:33:08,419
Who gets the Pulitzer Prize for journalism,
Bob De Niro

611
00:33:08,502 --> 00:33:10,671
or the writer? I don't know. It's ludicrous.

612
00:33:10,755 --> 00:33:14,258
But that is where we are today
in society and life.

613
00:33:14,842 --> 00:33:16,761
And the reality was

614
00:33:17,094 --> 00:33:19,096
when the movie was announced

615
00:33:19,180 --> 00:33:22,683
suddenly it became easier to get
information for the book.

616
00:33:22,767 --> 00:33:24,435
Everybody was interested

617
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,355
in meeting Bob, or Marty, or Sharon Stone.
Oh, my God.

618
00:33:27,438 --> 00:33:31,192
And people who would slam doors
on my face and wouldn't talk to me,

619
00:33:31,275 --> 00:33:33,361
hung up, had their lawyers threaten me,

620
00:33:33,444 --> 00:33:36,280
all of a sudden are calling me up
to meet Bob De Niro,

621
00:33:36,364 --> 00:33:38,783
Sharon Stone, Joe Pesci, Marty Scorsese.

622
00:33:38,908 --> 00:33:42,203
I'm the writer, I'm there,
and all of a sudden they'd open up

623
00:33:42,286 --> 00:33:46,249
so I immediately started doing
all of the material we had for the book.

624
00:33:46,415 --> 00:33:46,666
Put it into the movie.

625
00:33:46,666 --> 00:33:47,708
Put it into the movie.

626
00:33:47,792 --> 00:33:52,046
The minute I finished working on the movie,
l immediately went back to the book.

627
00:33:52,129 --> 00:33:54,298
I was typing a minute every minute

628
00:33:54,382 --> 00:33:55,925
and my editor,

629
00:33:56,884 --> 00:33:59,178
Michael Korda was unbelievably helpful

630
00:33:59,387 --> 00:34:01,264
because he was really murderous.

631
00:34:01,347 --> 00:34:04,225
I tried and had to get the book out
before the movie.

632
00:34:04,308 --> 00:34:07,728
It's hard, you know, they're already
shooting the movie in Las Vegas

633
00:34:07,812 --> 00:34:11,399
when I was still typing the book
in Las Vegas.

634
00:34:12,567 --> 00:34:16,279
The publisher wanted the book to come out
a year before the movie.

635
00:34:16,779 --> 00:34:18,739
So they get a nice ride with the book.

636
00:34:18,823 --> 00:34:22,326
What happens when you bring out a book
at the same time as the movie,

637
00:34:22,410 --> 00:34:25,580
people pay $10 or $20 with your girlfriend,
you go see the movie

638
00:34:25,663 --> 00:34:29,250
Casino, with Bob De Niro and it's written
by the same guy who wrote the book,

639
00:34:29,333 --> 00:34:31,335
why would you spend $30 for the book?

640
00:34:31,419 --> 00:34:35,214
They already saw that. "What, am l
in the business of giving Pileggi money?”

641
00:34:35,298 --> 00:34:36,716
I go see the movie.

642
00:34:36,799 --> 00:34:40,595
So the publisher is sitting there
with thousands of copies of the book,

643
00:34:40,678 --> 00:34:43,681
they know people are not gonna duplicate.

644
00:34:43,848 --> 00:34:48,185
The movie sells millions of dollars worth
of tickets and nobody's gonna buy a book.

645
00:34:48,269 --> 00:34:51,480
That's why they'd like you to read
the book first for a year

646
00:34:51,564 --> 00:34:54,692
until it's so bored, there is not a sale left.

647
00:34:54,775 --> 00:34:57,611
They've wrung America's pockets dry.

648
00:34:57,695 --> 00:35:01,532
And then the paperback comes out
with the movie.

649
00:35:01,616 --> 00:35:04,076
And you get the second kick
with the paperback.

650
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,580
They have the picture,
instead of just a normal book cover.

651
00:35:07,663 --> 00:35:10,624
Now you have the movie star
on the cover of the paperback.

652
00:35:10,708 --> 00:35:13,794
The lawyers work all that out in advance

653
00:35:13,919 --> 00:35:15,630
and that helps sell the paperback.

654
00:35:15,713 --> 00:35:17,173
SAM: ...looking for weak dealers,

655
00:35:17,256 --> 00:35:19,967
the way lions look for weak antelope.

656
00:35:23,095 --> 00:35:24,764
Operator, this is Mr. R.

657
00:35:24,847 --> 00:35:26,724
Get me Armstrong and Friday over to Pit 2.

658
00:35:26,807 --> 00:35:28,476
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

659
00:35:28,559 --> 00:35:31,854
SCORSESE: It was a very complex film to
make. It took about 100 days to shoot.

660
00:35:31,937 --> 00:35:34,190
And they were very long days.

661
00:35:34,482 --> 00:35:39,695
Part of the problem was shooting
the first six weeks in the Riviera Hotel

662
00:35:39,820 --> 00:35:43,991
which was all right, we got
the extraordinary atmosphere and flavor

663
00:35:44,075 --> 00:35:48,120
but we weren't important. What was
important for everyone was the gambling.

664
00:35:48,621 --> 00:35:52,166
The first day of shooting
l see an electric sign outside,

665
00:35:52,249 --> 00:35:56,462
"Come and see the shooting of Casino with
Robert De Niro, Sharon Stone, Don Rickles."

666
00:35:56,545 --> 00:35:59,757
And people would just show up.
We started shooting around 11:00 at night.

667
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,426
And it was murder.
People all over the place.

668
00:36:02,510 --> 00:36:05,763
But around 1:00, 2:00 a.m.,
it started to get quiet. It was great.

669
00:36:05,846 --> 00:36:09,016
Then around 6:00 a.m.
you'd see the older people coming in

670
00:36:09,100 --> 00:36:11,268
that we have pictures of at the end.

671
00:36:11,477 --> 00:36:13,354
And that sort of thing.

672
00:36:13,437 --> 00:36:15,940
There were two clowns outside
every morning.

673
00:36:16,023 --> 00:36:18,025
It was kind of scary. They were ladies.

674
00:36:18,109 --> 00:36:21,028
After about the first week,
we became friends. They were great.

675
00:36:21,112 --> 00:36:24,073
They told me
how they went to clown school

676
00:36:24,156 --> 00:36:27,827
and they gave me an application

677
00:36:28,327 --> 00:36:31,038
for clown school.
l thought it was really interesting.

678
00:36:31,122 --> 00:36:33,457
They were sweet. Every morning,
l got to say, "Hey! How are you doing?

679
00:36:33,541 --> 00:36:34,542
(LAUGHING)

680
00:36:34,625 --> 00:36:38,045
"The clowns are outside.”
We were out of our minds by that point.

681
00:36:38,129 --> 00:36:40,965
You know, it was like living in that casino.

682
00:36:41,632 --> 00:36:45,302
And the explanations of the games
and that sort of thing.

683
00:36:45,428 --> 00:36:48,973
Of course, the way that that world
is depicted in the film

684
00:36:49,056 --> 00:36:50,808
is now ancient history, in a way.

685
00:36:50,891 --> 00:36:55,896
The scams are much more complicated
and sophisticated. But in any event

686
00:36:55,980 --> 00:36:59,358
it was a very difficult shoot
because of the different locations

687
00:36:59,442 --> 00:37:02,027
and bits and pieces of scenes
rather than long scenes.

688
00:37:02,111 --> 00:37:06,115
Long scenes were easier to shoot.
Once the actors had it, we were okay.

689
00:37:06,949 --> 00:37:09,618
And then the violence in the film

690
00:37:10,244 --> 00:37:14,248
comes out of simply, you know,
the enforcing of their will

691
00:37:14,331 --> 00:37:16,083
and making money.

692
00:37:16,584 --> 00:37:19,378
And it's no different
from the rest of the world.

693
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,425
It simply isn't. Especially breaking the man's
hand who was coming in and robbing them.

694
00:37:24,508 --> 00:37:28,179
When we were doing that,
there were two guys who had

695
00:37:28,304 --> 00:37:31,599
held this fellow, the actor,
and they threw him in the room

696
00:37:31,682 --> 00:37:33,267
and there were two real guards.

697
00:37:33,350 --> 00:37:36,270
At one point, we were halfway
through the scene

698
00:37:36,353 --> 00:37:38,522
he mentioned a few names. He said,

699
00:37:38,606 --> 00:37:42,276
"This guy is getting away lightly."
Because so-and-so, there was a wall,

700
00:37:42,359 --> 00:37:44,779
a special wall in one place in Vegas,
one guy...

701
00:37:44,862 --> 00:37:48,407
There was a wall that they had
that was covered with blood basically.

702
00:37:48,491 --> 00:37:50,284
They said they'd do what they had to do

703
00:37:50,367 --> 00:37:54,288
and throw him out in the middle of the road
and say he got hit by a car.

704
00:37:54,371 --> 00:37:58,125
That's just normal.
That must have been in the '50s.

705
00:37:58,209 --> 00:38:00,461
So if that happens,
that could happen anywhere.

706
00:38:00,544 --> 00:38:04,256
But you had to organize it, figure out,
a guy's coming and making trouble,

707
00:38:04,340 --> 00:38:05,591
he's gotta be dealt with.

708
00:38:05,674 --> 00:38:08,219
And the only way to do it is with violence.

709
00:38:08,552 --> 00:38:10,179
It's as simple as that.

710
00:38:11,305 --> 00:38:14,808
The Rothstein character, based
on a guy named Frank "Lefty" Rosenthal

711
00:38:14,892 --> 00:38:17,728
was so precise and so guarded

712
00:38:18,312 --> 00:38:21,065
and so cautious in his life.

713
00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:24,443
He dealt with some very tough people.
We don't even get into that.

714
00:38:24,527 --> 00:38:27,071
You can't even get really into...

715
00:38:27,154 --> 00:38:31,033
Every aside that somebody said,
in research or something

716
00:38:31,659 --> 00:38:33,994
that Rosenthal told us or...

717
00:38:34,078 --> 00:38:37,289
You can make three films out of that alone.
You don't know.

718
00:38:37,373 --> 00:38:42,044
This just scratches the surface.
He was very particular and very careful.

719
00:38:42,419 --> 00:38:44,797
If you come back here, either one of you...

720
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,340
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

721
00:38:46,423 --> 00:38:51,262
PILEGGI: The only thing he ever did that was
illegal when he was in lllinois

722
00:38:51,512 --> 00:38:55,683
was gamble. He was a bookmaker,
a gambler, and an oddsmaker.

723
00:38:55,766 --> 00:38:57,142
He did all this stuff,
and gambling is illegal in lllinois.

724
00:38:57,142 --> 00:38:59,436
He did all this stuff,
and gambling is illegal in lllinois.

725
00:38:59,562 --> 00:39:02,606
But it is legal in Las Vegas and Nevada.

726
00:39:02,857 --> 00:39:06,151
So the minute he steps over the border
into the state of Nevada

727
00:39:06,235 --> 00:39:10,447
he is a perfectly legitimate human being,
doing everything he did in lllinois.

728
00:39:10,573 --> 00:39:12,700
But in Nevada, he is totally legitimate.

729
00:39:12,783 --> 00:39:15,286
And that gave him such freedom

730
00:39:15,411 --> 00:39:19,623
that made him feel so good,
it was a great benefit to him

731
00:39:19,707 --> 00:39:22,793
just in his heart. And that I think

732
00:39:23,043 --> 00:39:26,797
that sense of freedom and release

733
00:39:27,756 --> 00:39:32,761
was part of the thing that made him think
that he could actually live a normal life

734
00:39:33,137 --> 00:39:37,725
and find a beautiful girl to marry
and have children and live this kind of

735
00:39:38,142 --> 00:39:43,314
Leave It to Beaver life which, of course, was
a dream beyond any chance of fulfillment.

736
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,233
You've known me two, three months.
What do you know?

737
00:39:46,317 --> 00:39:48,986
I'm 43 years old. I don't want to wait.

738
00:39:49,111 --> 00:39:51,905
I know you well enough
to know that I love you very much.

739
00:39:51,989 --> 00:39:53,407
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

740
00:39:53,490 --> 00:39:57,578
SCORSESE: He gave an impression when we
met him a number of times and had meetings

741
00:39:57,661 --> 00:40:01,582
and also we did research on him.

742
00:40:01,665 --> 00:40:05,836
There's no doubit,
he was a very methodical, scientific person.

743
00:40:06,670 --> 00:40:08,881
Genius at what he was doing
with numbers,

744
00:40:08,964 --> 00:40:11,050
how to make things run
and make more money.

745
00:40:11,133 --> 00:40:12,259
I care about you.

746
00:40:12,343 --> 00:40:14,178
But there is the fatal flaw.

747
00:40:15,179 --> 00:40:17,931
The fatal flaw is...

748
00:40:19,183 --> 00:40:21,101
I'm sorry. I'm not in love with you.

749
00:40:21,185 --> 00:40:24,355
...he decides
on making a life with a woman

750
00:40:24,438 --> 00:40:27,441
who he knows
does not necessatrily love him.

751
00:40:27,608 --> 00:40:30,778
And he knows the nature
of the world she's in, as he tells her:

752
00:40:30,861 --> 00:40:34,448
“Let's make a business deal, in a way.
We're a certain age.”

753
00:40:34,531 --> 00:40:37,952
It's a very interesting scene
between De Niro and Sharon Stone.

754
00:40:38,035 --> 00:40:40,871
He says, "This is the top of the line.
We can go further.

755
00:40:40,954 --> 00:40:43,415
"You want to hustle chips
for the rest of your life?

756
00:40:43,499 --> 00:40:46,293
“I could take care of you."
It makes sense. People do that

757
00:40:46,377 --> 00:40:49,463
without even being at the top of the line.
"We're both lonely.

758
00:40:49,546 --> 00:40:51,757
“Let's get together and see If it works out.”

759
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:56,887
But the excess and the drive
for more and more

760
00:40:57,346 --> 00:41:01,016
pushes them way off the track
and she ultimately not only brings down...

761
00:41:01,141 --> 00:41:04,395
And I personally don't think it's her fault.

762
00:41:05,896 --> 00:41:10,984
She brings down not just the relationship
between Rothstein and Nicky Santoro

763
00:41:11,193 --> 00:41:14,071
but the entire power of the Chicago mob.

764
00:41:14,655 --> 00:41:18,200
And a whole epoch changes, in a way.

765
00:41:19,660 --> 00:41:23,872
This has happened all throughout history,
where different alliances are made,

766
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:29,003
lines of trust are crossed
between close friends.

767
00:41:29,086 --> 00:41:33,173
And this happens in politics,
happens in history.

768
00:41:33,257 --> 00:41:36,009
It's not about being man or woman.
It's about being human.

769
00:41:36,093 --> 00:41:40,180
It's about what happens between people
and how they add to that

770
00:41:40,264 --> 00:41:42,516
no limits of any kind.

771
00:41:42,599 --> 00:41:46,687
I just sold a picture, The Aviator, about
Howard Hughes, he had no limits either.

772
00:41:46,770 --> 00:41:50,691
And he pays his own price. But this is
a world where they have no limits.

773
00:41:52,192 --> 00:41:55,279
It shows you what happens to a world
where you have no limits.

774
00:41:55,362 --> 00:41:58,032
SAM: ...but I didn't give a fuck.
I'm Sam Rothstein, I said.

775
00:41:58,115 --> 00:41:59,783
I can change her.

776
00:42:01,785 --> 00:42:03,328
NICKY: It was typical Ace.

777
00:42:03,412 --> 00:42:06,707
He invited the biggest people in town.
He knew they'd show.

778
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:09,209
He knew they all wanted
something from him.

779
00:42:09,293 --> 00:42:12,546
With Ace, nobody ever got a free ride.
Even Ginger.

780
00:42:12,629 --> 00:42:14,506
With her, he still covered his bets.

781
00:42:14,590 --> 00:42:17,634
They had to have the baby first,
before they could get married.

782
00:42:17,718 --> 00:42:20,596
He even made us watch Amy
for a few days...

783
00:42:21,138 --> 00:42:22,681
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

784
00:42:22,765 --> 00:42:26,894
PILEGGI: So he is madly in love with her
but he understands who she is.

785
00:42:26,977 --> 00:42:31,315
This is not Donna Reed with Robert Young.

786
00:42:31,398 --> 00:42:32,733
This is a working girl.

787
00:42:32,816 --> 00:42:36,862
She's made money. She's making a million
dollars a year with all her boyfriends.

788
00:42:36,945 --> 00:42:39,281
He's got to make up for that to her.

789
00:42:39,490 --> 00:42:44,495
And so what he is going to do is,
he wants her exclusive to himself basically.

790
00:42:44,745 --> 00:42:49,249
He's gonna say, "Look, whatever you want,
you want a million dollars, I'll give it to you.

791
00:42:49,333 --> 00:42:52,753
"My sense is that once we begin
to live together

792
00:42:52,836 --> 00:42:54,922
"as husband and wife

793
00:42:55,672 --> 00:42:58,759
"and maybe we'll have kids,
and we'll go on with our lives

794
00:42:58,842 --> 00:43:02,763
"we"ll fall in love.
I'm already in love, but you aren't.

795
00:43:02,846 --> 00:43:06,016
"But believe me,
I'll make you fall in love with me”

796
00:43:06,099 --> 00:43:08,101
which is probably what he felt.

797
00:43:08,185 --> 00:43:10,938
She's a street girl.
But she's very sophisticated.

798
00:43:11,021 --> 00:43:13,232
I hate to even use the "street girl" word.

799
00:43:13,315 --> 00:43:17,861
She's a knockaround girl
and she knew her way around Las Vegas.

800
00:43:17,986 --> 00:43:21,365
This is an exclusive
kind of person in Las Vegas

801
00:43:21,448 --> 00:43:24,743
who has, by the way,
in that kind of community, all the respect

802
00:43:24,827 --> 00:43:29,164
and the reputation of legitimate people.

803
00:43:30,332 --> 00:43:32,042
That's who she was.

804
00:43:32,543 --> 00:43:37,047
And in the end, he could never get her
to fall in love with him.

805
00:43:37,172 --> 00:43:39,466
And I think part of the problem was

806
00:43:39,550 --> 00:43:43,887
she was always in love with the one guy
who she couldn't control

807
00:43:44,138 --> 00:43:46,139
and the one guy who was really bad to her.

808
00:43:46,223 --> 00:43:49,977
All these other guys gave her money.
This one guy used to take it from her.

809
00:43:50,060 --> 00:43:53,647
And she let him take it. I think we see that
very clearly in the movie.

810
00:43:53,730 --> 00:43:56,984
Of course, there's no one betlter for that
than Jimmy Woods.

811
00:43:57,317 --> 00:43:59,486
ANNOUNCER: Costume Designer Rita Ryack.

812
00:43:59,570 --> 00:44:02,990
RYACK: We thought of
a little sort of quasi Jackie Kennedy,

813
00:44:03,073 --> 00:44:05,742
doll-like, Barbie-doll suit,

814
00:44:06,869 --> 00:44:09,663
that's with an innocent kind of collar.

815
00:44:11,415 --> 00:44:15,419
A little Peter Pan collar,
the suit is made of white silk matelasse.

816
00:44:15,919 --> 00:44:18,422
And her pumps are of the same fabric

817
00:44:18,505 --> 00:44:22,593
and I don't think we got a good shoe shot
but they do have little rhinestone heels.

818
00:44:22,676 --> 00:44:25,679
And she had that little fingertip length veil

819
00:44:25,762 --> 00:44:28,223
and, you know, it is kind of

820
00:44:28,724 --> 00:44:32,019
a loss-of-innocence costume,
although I don't think

821
00:44:32,102 --> 00:44:34,771
there was much innocence to be lost.

822
00:44:36,940 --> 00:44:38,859
ANNQOUNCER: Actor Sharon Stone.

823
00:44:39,026 --> 00:44:43,906
STONE: I was asked to audition for the role
a couple of times

824
00:44:46,116 --> 00:44:50,579
and Marty didn't show up for the audition.

825
00:44:51,121 --> 00:44:54,958
I forget what happened the first time
that he didn't come.

826
00:44:55,292 --> 00:44:59,213
And then the second time they said
that he was on a train.

827
00:45:00,881 --> 00:45:02,216
- Right?
- Yeah.

828
00:45:02,299 --> 00:45:05,719
The first time that he didn't show up,
l waited and they said,

829
00:45:05,802 --> 00:45:09,556
“It'll be between this hour and this hour.
He'll come and we'll call you.”

830
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:14,436
I was in my car waiting for like, you know,
four hours, and then he just didn't show.

831
00:45:14,770 --> 00:45:16,396
And then the second time

832
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,191
they said he's on an Amtrak train
and he's coming in.

833
00:45:19,274 --> 00:45:22,069
Then they called and said
the Amtrak train broke down.

834
00:45:22,152 --> 00:45:24,488
And I was like, "Yeah, right.”

835
00:45:24,571 --> 00:45:27,574
l actually called Amtrak and said,
"Did the train break down?"

836
00:45:27,658 --> 00:45:30,369
They told me that it did
and I still was like, "No.

837
00:45:30,452 --> 00:45:33,413
"He's actually just blowing me off."
Because I couldn't...

838
00:45:33,497 --> 00:45:36,833
It was just inconceivable to me
that yet again...

839
00:45:36,917 --> 00:45:39,670
All I ever wanted was to be
in a Scorsese movie.

840
00:45:39,795 --> 00:45:42,422
All I ever dreamed about
was to work with De Niro.

841
00:45:42,506 --> 00:45:45,092
This was my biggest goal in my whole life.

842
00:45:45,175 --> 00:45:49,972
So here I am, twice being blown off
by Scorsese, so I'm like, "Of course.”

843
00:45:50,639 --> 00:45:55,018
And so when they called me again and said
would I come and see them, I said no.

844
00:45:56,186 --> 00:45:58,855
Because my heart couldn't take it.

845
00:45:59,189 --> 00:46:03,652
It was just too traumatic and heartbreaking
for me that

846
00:46:04,361 --> 00:46:06,863
this guy would blow me off a third time.

847
00:46:06,989 --> 00:46:11,034
So I just went out to dinner
with my best friend.

848
00:46:12,369 --> 00:46:15,288
The agent called me and said,
"He really wants to see you."

849
00:46:15,372 --> 00:46:18,542
l said, "No, he doesn't.
He really wants to blow me off again.”

850
00:46:18,625 --> 00:46:22,129
They said, "Can we tell him where you went
to dinner?" I said, "No."

851
00:46:22,212 --> 00:46:25,424
And they called me back later
and said, "Sharon, where are you?"

852
00:46:25,507 --> 00:46:27,300
l was at this Italian restaurant.

853
00:46:27,384 --> 00:46:29,261
They said, "He really wants to see you."

854
00:46:29,344 --> 00:46:31,805
And I'm like, “No, he really doesn't.”

855
00:46:31,888 --> 00:46:35,142
And so I am sitting at this restaurant
and having dinner

856
00:46:35,225 --> 00:46:38,812
and I look up and there's Marty

857
00:46:39,187 --> 00:46:41,523
standing at my dinner table.

858
00:46:41,732 --> 00:46:44,901
And I thought I was gonna have
a heart attack.

859
00:46:45,027 --> 00:46:50,073
'Cause it's little me and there is
Marty Scorsese in a white suit

860
00:46:50,741 --> 00:46:53,076
standing at my dinner table.

861
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,413
And he is like,
“I really do wanna see you for this part

862
00:46:56,496 --> 00:46:58,999
"and I really have seen all your movies.”

863
00:46:59,082 --> 00:47:00,500
I'm like, "Yeah, I bet,

864
00:47:00,584 --> 00:47:03,795
"especially King Solomon's Mines
because that was a big winner."

865
00:47:03,879 --> 00:47:07,758
He's, like, “No, I really did,
l saw that, too.” And I'm, like, just...

866
00:47:08,050 --> 00:47:10,093
"This is a nightmare.”

867
00:47:10,427 --> 00:47:12,846
He's like, "Can I sit down?"

868
00:47:13,847 --> 00:47:15,766
l was so humiliated.

869
00:47:15,932 --> 00:47:20,103
And he sat down and he talked to me
for, like, an hour

870
00:47:20,228 --> 00:47:22,856
about everything I had ever done,

871
00:47:22,939 --> 00:47:26,276
the good, the schmaltz, everything.

872
00:47:26,401 --> 00:47:30,113
And what he thought
about me as an actor and my work

873
00:47:30,781 --> 00:47:34,367
and I thought I just wanted to
get under the table and die

874
00:47:34,451 --> 00:47:37,788
'cause he'd actually come to the restaurant
to talk to me.

875
00:47:38,455 --> 00:47:41,083
And he said, would I come and audition?

876
00:47:41,166 --> 00:47:44,753
Which I did, and I went to New York

877
00:47:45,253 --> 00:47:46,713
and I auditioned

878
00:47:46,797 --> 00:47:49,716
and it was a very peculiar thing
to audition

879
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,929
for this part of Ginger
because she is so wild.

880
00:47:54,763 --> 00:47:58,016
And you know, it's a fine line to tread

881
00:47:58,141 --> 00:48:00,769
because you wanna do the part

882
00:48:00,852 --> 00:48:04,439
but you don't want to beat
the crap out of De Niro

883
00:48:04,523 --> 00:48:08,235
because is he gonna give you the job
if you beat him up in the room?

884
00:48:08,318 --> 00:48:10,028
So I wanted to

885
00:48:12,030 --> 00:48:15,909
demonstrate that I had the acting prowess
to play the part

886
00:48:15,992 --> 00:48:19,162
but I also didn't wanna damage him
in some way

887
00:48:19,287 --> 00:48:21,498
where they wouldn't hire me.

888
00:48:23,166 --> 00:48:27,546
So I didn't think I quite did a great audition
because it was...

889
00:48:28,004 --> 00:48:30,507
l kept withholding in the work.

890
00:48:30,799 --> 00:48:34,344
And then I got this call

891
00:48:34,553 --> 00:48:37,055
that Marty and Bob
were coming to California

892
00:48:37,139 --> 00:48:39,683
and they wanted to see me again.

893
00:48:39,850 --> 00:48:42,894
And I went into this hotel room

894
00:48:43,019 --> 00:48:45,647
and they said,
"What do you think of your audition?”

895
00:48:45,730 --> 00:48:48,233
And I said, "I thought I sucked.”

896
00:48:48,358 --> 00:48:50,944
And I said,
"Because I didn't want to beat you up

897
00:48:51,027 --> 00:48:55,198
"and I have to really...
To be Ginger, you have to go berserk.”

898
00:48:55,365 --> 00:48:59,661
And they talked to me at length
about would I really let it rip.

899
00:49:00,245 --> 00:49:03,331
And, of course, that's all I had to hear.

900
00:49:04,499 --> 00:49:05,834
I said I would

901
00:49:05,917 --> 00:49:09,504
and I promised them that
l would be thrilled to do so.

902
00:49:09,588 --> 00:49:12,424
SAM: Trouble was Nicky was dreaming
of his own kind of Vegas.

903
00:49:12,507 --> 00:49:15,802
NICKY: I put money out on the street
charging three points a week.

904
00:49:15,886 --> 00:49:17,012
Juice to the dealers.

905
00:49:17,095 --> 00:49:18,763
Don't make us look for you.

906
00:49:18,847 --> 00:49:20,473
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

907
00:49:20,557 --> 00:49:22,601
SCORSESE: A Iot of people love
fo go to Vegas

908
00:49:22,684 --> 00:49:25,270
because they love the aesthetic
of the bad taste.

909
00:49:25,353 --> 00:49:29,065
I find it a little... I find it remarkable.

910
00:49:29,399 --> 00:49:33,111
I find it interesting to look at.
I don't like being in places that say,

911
00:49:33,195 --> 00:49:35,280
“Isn't this wonderful bad taste?"

912
00:49:35,405 --> 00:49:38,533
Where I grew up, I mean,
there was enough

913
00:49:38,783 --> 00:49:40,368
that I saw that was kind of ugly

914
00:49:40,452 --> 00:49:43,121
and at the same time,
there are some wonderful things.

915
00:49:43,205 --> 00:49:47,292
But it was a pretty rough area, in particular,
more ugly

916
00:49:47,792 --> 00:49:51,922
than the skid row area of old New York,
the Bowery.

917
00:49:52,380 --> 00:49:55,550
People at the end of their lives
Just thrown away like refuse.

918
00:49:55,634 --> 00:49:58,094
And so, for me,

919
00:49:59,596 --> 00:50:03,225
that bad taste, celebrating
the worst instincts,

920
00:50:03,308 --> 00:50:06,311
I don't know, I don't go for it, really.

921
00:50:08,939 --> 00:50:12,943
The humor in the piece just comes from
not just the look of it

922
00:50:13,068 --> 00:50:15,445
'cause the look should be a provocation.

923
00:50:16,112 --> 00:50:20,492
Leopard-skin carpets,
and particularly the clothes,

924
00:50:20,617 --> 00:50:23,370
the costumes that Ace Rothstein wears.

925
00:50:23,453 --> 00:50:27,499
The houses and that sort of thing.
There's a certain time and place, you know,

926
00:50:27,582 --> 00:50:30,585
when you can look down on their taste.

927
00:50:30,669 --> 00:50:34,297
I don't look down or up at it. I just get...

928
00:50:34,464 --> 00:50:37,509
I think it's interesting visually
but I don't enjoy it.

929
00:50:39,302 --> 00:50:42,597
If there's any humor meant there,
it's the humor of excess, also.

930
00:50:42,681 --> 00:50:45,725
How much further can they go
with the style, what they wear,

931
00:50:45,809 --> 00:50:48,353
the style of the houses,
the cars, everything?

932
00:50:48,436 --> 00:50:52,524
But also, the humor of...
The presence of Don Rickles

933
00:50:53,692 --> 00:50:56,861
who understands that world

934
00:50:57,028 --> 00:51:00,740
is part of that world, represents people
that are part of that world

935
00:51:00,824 --> 00:51:03,535
that is so important, that is the lounge act.

936
00:51:05,328 --> 00:51:08,623
He's not just that.
I'm sure he did that when he was younger.

937
00:51:08,707 --> 00:51:11,876
The lounge act who became friendly

938
00:51:12,002 --> 00:51:15,255
with the gods of the '50s,
of that entertainment life,

939
00:51:15,338 --> 00:51:17,966
Sinatra, Dean Martin and those people.

940
00:51:20,176 --> 00:51:24,431
And has a certain look, even though
Rickles is so remarkable with his

941
00:51:24,514 --> 00:51:26,099
stream of consciousness.

942
00:51:26,182 --> 00:51:29,811
He doesn't say... He isn't a jokester.
He doesn't do one line as a joke.

943
00:51:29,894 --> 00:51:31,688
He just starts somehow,

944
00:51:33,148 --> 00:51:36,151
monologues that go on coming.
There's no stopping.

945
00:51:37,402 --> 00:51:40,238
Some of it is pretty tough.

946
00:51:40,405 --> 00:51:43,325
The humor is tough humor and it's

947
00:51:44,159 --> 00:51:48,663
remarkable in its truth.

948
00:51:49,664 --> 00:51:52,250
Some of it is hard because it is true.

949
00:51:52,375 --> 00:51:55,211
But it's good to laugh it out.

950
00:51:55,503 --> 00:51:56,880
And he does that.

951
00:51:57,380 --> 00:51:59,382
He's a really remarkable man

952
00:51:59,674 --> 00:52:04,804
and he represents that attractive side,
to me, of that world,

953
00:52:04,888 --> 00:52:07,432
that sort of thing
and just his presence in the film

954
00:52:07,515 --> 00:52:10,727
is very important
because he looks... He's the real thing.

955
00:52:11,519 --> 00:52:15,315
Not a real gangster, I am talking about
the part of the entertainment world

956
00:52:15,398 --> 00:52:18,360
that was owned by, ultimately,

957
00:52:18,777 --> 00:52:21,655
I guess, crime groups in Chicago
and New York, or whatever

958
00:52:21,738 --> 00:52:23,573
who bought those hotels.

959
00:52:24,532 --> 00:52:28,536
But you must remember that all
the people in the crime world down there...

960
00:52:28,703 --> 00:52:29,954
You had...

961
00:52:30,705 --> 00:52:34,626
That's why there's so much time
given to the different deals in the picture.

962
00:52:34,709 --> 00:52:38,380
Different deals and how they bought
these hotels. If you could follow it.

963
00:52:38,463 --> 00:52:42,258
But all you have to know
is that it always has a clean face on it.

964
00:52:42,592 --> 00:52:46,930
It always has a front man that is running it
it could be the mayor of the town.

965
00:52:47,055 --> 00:52:51,226
Maybe the governor of the state
or maybe the president of the country.

966
00:52:52,143 --> 00:52:54,270
So that's the issue.

967
00:52:55,980 --> 00:53:00,068
That's why I went through all machinations
of trying to explain that.

968
00:53:00,151 --> 00:53:04,155
Even if you don't follow the voiceover
of how this hotel wound up there and

969
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,117
who's signing a check,
people shaking hands.

970
00:53:07,242 --> 00:53:09,494
Pictures being taken. It's just an act

971
00:53:09,577 --> 00:53:12,455
for brigandry, really,

972
00:53:12,580 --> 00:53:14,374
just to rape and pillage.

973
00:53:14,457 --> 00:53:15,583
NICKY: ...bring in the crowds.

974
00:53:15,667 --> 00:53:17,544
He knew all the fucking angles.

975
00:53:17,627 --> 00:53:19,587
He brought the whole Femme Fatale show...

976
00:53:19,671 --> 00:53:21,214
ANNOUNCER: Rita Ryack.

977
00:53:21,297 --> 00:53:24,050
RYACK: A Iot of people don't understand
that the '70s and '80s

978
00:53:24,134 --> 00:53:26,261
are indeed period movies.

979
00:53:26,344 --> 00:53:30,932
In fact, 1997, that's period.

980
00:53:33,643 --> 00:53:37,147
Here's an off-the-record thing,
l was asked by Production,

981
00:53:37,272 --> 00:53:39,441
"Why does it have to be so expensive?

982
00:53:39,524 --> 00:53:42,819
"Can't you just go to a thrift shop
and get '70s knockoffs?"

983
00:53:42,902 --> 00:53:45,905
No. We're story-telling.

984
00:53:45,989 --> 00:53:48,950
We had to do a tremendous
amount of research

985
00:53:49,033 --> 00:53:51,494
because there's such a range of clothing.

986
00:53:51,578 --> 00:53:53,913
And you mentioned geography, of course.

987
00:53:53,997 --> 00:53:58,334
All different parts of the country
have very different looks.

988
00:53:59,252 --> 00:54:02,464
Just before this film, I did Apollo 13

989
00:54:02,547 --> 00:54:05,425
which was the same time period
and that was Houston.

990
00:54:05,508 --> 00:54:10,013
And although it was the same time perioq,
the look was absolutely different.

991
00:54:10,430 --> 00:54:14,058
So, regional differences are really important.

992
00:54:14,350 --> 00:54:17,937
And of course you have to choose
the clothing that will tell the story

993
00:54:18,021 --> 00:54:19,606
of the film and the characters.

994
00:54:19,689 --> 00:54:23,985
So I went to visit Frank Rosenthal,
who was generous enough

995
00:54:24,068 --> 00:54:26,321
to show us all of his personal stuff,

996
00:54:26,404 --> 00:54:28,698
his wedding albums.

997
00:54:29,365 --> 00:54:33,787
We took a little tour of his closet
and really became very well acquainted

998
00:54:33,870 --> 00:54:37,624
with his style, and he lent me
few of his own things

999
00:54:37,874 --> 00:54:39,792
that he had saved from the period

1000
00:54:39,876 --> 00:54:41,252
from the TV show.

1001
00:54:43,046 --> 00:54:46,216
When we tried them on Bob

1002
00:54:46,633 --> 00:54:49,552
who has his own physicality
and personality,

1003
00:54:51,262 --> 00:54:53,473
the clothing,
although it looked very flashy

1004
00:54:53,556 --> 00:54:57,268
in the context of
Frank Rosenthal's environment

1005
00:54:57,393 --> 00:55:00,647
on Bob, it looked almost Wall Street,
it looked very straight.

1006
00:55:00,730 --> 00:55:04,984
So we built all of his costumes.
I think we built more than 70 suits.

1007
00:55:05,068 --> 00:55:08,112
So, I don't know if all of them
made it into the film.

1008
00:55:08,404 --> 00:55:11,282
But the dark ties
that Frank Rosenthal used

1009
00:55:11,407 --> 00:55:13,159
didn't work on Bob at all.

1010
00:55:13,409 --> 00:55:18,039
One of our most important meetings
was on the roof of the hotel

1011
00:55:18,122 --> 00:55:19,582
where Marty was staying.

1012
00:55:19,666 --> 00:55:23,836
We were up there with bolts of fabric,
a mirror, and the dying light

1013
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,340
at magic hour,
draping Bob with bolts of fabric

1014
00:55:27,423 --> 00:55:31,344
lo see what turned him into Ace Rothstein.

1015
00:55:31,427 --> 00:55:34,097
It was a very illuminating process.

1016
00:55:34,180 --> 00:55:38,518
I have something else interesting to say
about Ace, it may or may not be interesting.

1017
00:55:38,601 --> 00:55:42,689
The guy who made his shirts,
the shirt maker, Anto,

1018
00:55:42,939 --> 00:55:46,609
actually had made shirts
for Frank Rosenthal.

1019
00:55:47,193 --> 00:55:50,530
This was just a coincidence,
because I always work with Anto

1020
00:55:50,864 --> 00:55:52,866
because he's brilliant.

1021
00:55:53,032 --> 00:55:54,868
But he's done everybody.

1022
00:55:55,118 --> 00:55:58,621
He had Frank Sinatra shirt paftterns,
he had

1023
00:55:59,497 --> 00:56:02,125
various wiseguys I cannot mention.

1024
00:56:02,625 --> 00:56:06,296
But he had Frank Rosenthal's,
So we were actually able

1025
00:56:06,629 --> 00:56:10,008
to tell a little bit of the story
of Frank Rosenthal

1026
00:56:10,466 --> 00:56:12,385
or Ace Rothstein

1027
00:56:13,803 --> 00:56:17,140
through the development
and changes in those collars.

1028
00:56:17,724 --> 00:56:21,185
And the more authenticity
that we can have

1029
00:56:21,728 --> 00:56:24,188
I think the more helpful it is.

1030
00:56:24,314 --> 00:56:25,898
SAM: She made everybody feel good.

1031
00:56:25,982 --> 00:56:27,692
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

1032
00:56:27,817 --> 00:56:31,321
STONE: Rita and John are the
finest costumers

1033
00:56:31,988 --> 00:56:36,701
and their detail is quite amazing.

1034
00:56:36,993 --> 00:56:39,495
We had this Bob Mackie gown,

1035
00:56:40,663 --> 00:56:43,875
I mean, that thing probably
weighed 30 pounds.

1036
00:56:45,585 --> 00:56:47,670
But very specific

1037
00:56:48,671 --> 00:56:50,673
and arduously

1038
00:56:51,424 --> 00:56:53,217
detailed work.

1039
00:56:54,427 --> 00:56:57,305
When they went to Bulgari
for the jewelry

1040
00:56:57,388 --> 00:56:59,349
we got them to remake pieces

1041
00:56:59,682 --> 00:57:01,684
that they had from that period.

1042
00:57:02,393 --> 00:57:06,439
We invented pieces.
They found pieces in costume houses.

1043
00:57:07,690 --> 00:57:11,027
But they even got me pieces to have,

1044
00:57:11,861 --> 00:57:13,696
to wear, to hang out in.

1045
00:57:14,113 --> 00:57:18,534
Between takes like my trailer pieces, I had,

1046
00:57:19,035 --> 00:57:21,204
which I still have, a Pucci jacket.

1047
00:57:21,788 --> 00:57:24,832
That was just what I could wear
when I was in my trailer.

1048
00:57:24,916 --> 00:57:28,044
So I didn't have to go completely out

1049
00:57:29,379 --> 00:57:32,757
Just between takes
in those hours when you hang out.

1050
00:57:32,924 --> 00:57:35,385
I wasn't just in a sweatsuit.

1051
00:57:35,802 --> 00:57:37,553
I had stuff that was still

1052
00:57:37,929 --> 00:57:40,807
in that character's groove.

1053
00:57:41,391 --> 00:57:42,642
All right, I will.

1054
00:57:42,725 --> 00:57:45,895
Listen carefully.
There are three ways of doing things here.

1055
00:57:45,978 --> 00:57:49,399
The right way, the wrong way,
and the way that I do it.

1056
00:57:49,565 --> 00:57:52,485
- Understand?
- I do understand. I'll get right on it.

1057
00:57:52,735 --> 00:57:55,154
- Thank you.
- Don't thank me. Just do it.

1058
00:57:55,238 --> 00:57:58,574
You're the slots manager.
l shouldn't have to tell you this.

1059
00:57:59,242 --> 00:58:01,536
Dang, you are right. I'm so sorry.

1060
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:06,457
SAM: So I ended up working 18-hour days.

1061
00:58:06,582 --> 00:58:09,544
Ginger was the one who wound up
enjoying the best of Vegas.

1062
00:58:09,627 --> 00:58:12,547
Come with me, please.
l have a better table for you.

1063
00:58:12,922 --> 00:58:15,341
What did you say
to that fucking jerk, anyway?

1064
00:58:15,425 --> 00:58:17,885
I told him that I was Mrs. Sam Rothstein.

1065
00:58:19,470 --> 00:58:21,764
You might as well get something out of it.

1066
00:58:21,848 --> 00:58:23,182
ANNOUNCER: Thelma Schoonmaker.

1067
00:58:23,266 --> 00:58:25,893
SCHOONMAKER: You don't always get two
actors that work so well

1068
00:58:25,977 --> 00:58:28,521
in improvisation as Pesci and De Niro.

1069
00:58:28,604 --> 00:58:31,649
The first time they ever did it,
l would assume

1070
00:58:31,941 --> 00:58:34,360
there was just a spark,
and you knew from that point on

1071
00:58:34,444 --> 00:58:35,570
(LAUGHING)

1072
00:58:35,653 --> 00:58:39,115
that you could give them any
sort of situation and they would

1073
00:58:39,449 --> 00:58:40,658
begin to

1074
00:58:40,992 --> 00:58:44,704
create and improvise,
and always within certain limits.

1075
00:58:44,954 --> 00:58:47,874
They always know they have to start

1076
00:58:48,207 --> 00:58:51,169
in one place and end with one line.

1077
00:58:51,544 --> 00:58:53,588
Start with one line, end with one line.

1078
00:58:53,671 --> 00:58:57,383
So that the scene will work
in the way it's supposed to in the film.

1079
00:58:57,508 --> 00:59:01,345
But within that they are given
a great deal of latitude and they just...

1080
00:59:01,429 --> 00:59:05,767
There is just something magical about
the way the two of them feed off each other.

1081
00:59:06,142 --> 00:59:08,686
Let's say, for instance,

1082
00:59:09,020 --> 00:59:12,565
l want to go into the restaurant,
which happens to be in the casino

1083
00:59:12,648 --> 00:59:14,567
to get one of those sandwiches I like?

1084
00:59:14,650 --> 00:59:17,695
Forget it. You can't even
set foot in the parking lot.

1085
00:59:18,404 --> 00:59:20,156
That's how serious it is.

1086
00:59:23,367 --> 00:59:26,287
- In other words, I'm fucked?
- In so many words, yes.

1087
00:59:26,537 --> 00:59:27,789
ANNQUNCER: Barbara De Fina.

1088
00:59:27,872 --> 00:59:31,250
DE FINA: I think one of the reasons aclors
like Marty so much

1089
00:59:31,334 --> 00:59:33,878
is that he does let them go

1090
00:59:34,420 --> 00:59:37,715
with their gut
and he does let them improvise

1091
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,468
he does let them make suggestions.

1092
00:59:40,551 --> 00:59:43,679
He doesn't necessarily always use

1093
00:59:44,180 --> 00:59:46,390
all of their suggestions but he does

1094
00:59:47,016 --> 00:59:50,520
let them...
And in fact, great things come out of it.

1095
00:59:51,020 --> 00:59:54,607
I think he would admit there're
some wonderful things in the movie

1096
00:59:54,690 --> 00:59:57,360
that were the actors' ideas.

1097
00:59:58,236 --> 01:00:02,031
That's why the relationship
is so strong and healthy between them.

1098
01:00:02,573 --> 01:00:05,576
Marty and Joe
have another kind of relationship.

1099
01:00:05,910 --> 01:00:09,455
I think there is a lot more humor there.

1100
01:00:10,039 --> 01:00:15,169
I think Joe makes things funnier
and I think Marty lets him go with that.

1101
01:00:15,336 --> 01:00:19,257
I think it is really important
because Joe plays the unsympathetic guys.

1102
01:00:19,340 --> 01:00:21,551
Frank Vincent I think

1103
01:00:22,051 --> 01:00:25,596
brings a lot of reality.

1104
01:00:26,597 --> 01:00:29,642
He understands the character,
he's from the neighborhood.

1105
01:00:29,725 --> 01:00:34,897
I think he's authentic, in a way,
and I think Marty lets him go with that.

1106
01:00:35,648 --> 01:00:37,275
I think he knows

1107
01:00:37,567 --> 01:00:40,903
when to listen and when to let the actors
do their thing

1108
01:00:41,112 --> 01:00:44,824
and when to use it but change it.
I think it makes a great mix.

1109
01:00:45,158 --> 01:00:47,577
- What's taking so long?
- This is a motherfucker!

1110
01:00:47,660 --> 01:00:48,870
It's working.

1111
01:00:48,953 --> 01:00:50,121
ANNQOUNCER: Frank Vincent.

1112
01:00:50,204 --> 01:00:52,206
VINCENT: In terms of my career,

1113
01:00:52,540 --> 01:00:54,959
working with Martin Scorsese has been

1114
01:00:55,960 --> 01:01:00,882
probably the biggest career boost
any actor could have

1115
01:01:00,965 --> 01:01:05,136
because anything else I do,
that's always made a reference to.

1116
01:01:05,219 --> 01:01:09,098
They're always,
"He worked for Marty three times."

1117
01:01:09,807 --> 01:01:12,518
It's wonderful to do a Scorsese film,

1118
01:01:12,894 --> 01:01:15,521
but to be in his three classics,

1119
01:01:17,064 --> 01:01:19,775
casting people and other producers...

1120
01:01:20,902 --> 01:01:22,945
It's a great boost.

1121
01:01:23,404 --> 01:01:26,657
It's an honor to have done it
and it's great for my career.

1122
01:01:27,116 --> 01:01:28,576
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

1123
01:01:28,659 --> 01:01:31,746
PILEGGI: I know it's hard to believe
sometimes but they are all human.

1124
01:01:31,829 --> 01:01:35,583
I don't care how bad they are,
or what we think of as bad

1125
01:01:35,875 --> 01:01:37,752
or society thinks of as bad.

1126
01:01:37,835 --> 01:01:42,006
They are murderers, they're Killers,
and they're brutal and it's a horrible,

1127
01:01:42,089 --> 01:01:46,928
brutal killer life and you can get killed
Just as quickly as you can kill somebody.

1128
01:01:47,553 --> 01:01:51,349
But that is their life, they know that.
At the same time,

1129
01:01:52,308 --> 01:01:55,519
they are quite often terrific daddies,

1130
01:01:55,603 --> 01:01:57,772
great mommies,

1131
01:01:57,897 --> 01:02:01,233
they're great with their children.
They can be very generous.

1132
01:02:01,317 --> 01:02:04,278
They are human on a million other levels.

1133
01:02:04,362 --> 01:02:06,113
Except there's this one trigger

1134
01:02:06,197 --> 01:02:09,408
and suddenly you're dealing
with a crocodile or an alligator.

1135
01:02:09,492 --> 01:02:10,868
They'll destroy you.

1136
01:02:10,952 --> 01:02:14,080
But that's what that world is,
that's one of the things

1137
01:02:14,163 --> 01:02:15,790
you want to show, in a sense.

1138
01:02:15,873 --> 01:02:18,960
You think this is interesting,
you want to be the godfather,

1139
01:02:19,043 --> 01:02:22,630
you want to play in that world?
This is what that world's really about.

1140
01:02:22,713 --> 01:02:25,383
In the end, these guys are really brutal.

1141
01:02:25,633 --> 01:02:29,095
They could be good fathers,
but they are brutal. They have a...

1142
01:02:29,762 --> 01:02:33,933
"They just don't feel your pain,”
some politicians say.

1143
01:02:34,016 --> 01:02:35,268
They just don't.

1144
01:02:35,351 --> 01:02:38,312
They'll take your hand
and slam it shut in an automobile door.

1145
01:02:38,396 --> 01:02:39,563
They don't feel you.

1146
01:02:39,647 --> 01:02:40,898
They feel their pain.

1147
01:02:40,982 --> 01:02:44,068
If they get a splinter, they go to the doctor.

1148
01:02:44,735 --> 01:02:46,946
But they don't feel any pain in other people.

1149
01:02:47,029 --> 01:02:49,907
They can laugh,
they can eat while they're killing.

1150
01:02:50,074 --> 01:02:51,117
ANNQOUNCER: Frank Vincent.

1151
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,619
VINCENT: When you meet these
people in real life,

1152
01:02:53,703 --> 01:02:57,790
you see that they are all comedically based.

1153
01:02:57,957 --> 01:03:00,167
I mean, people don't realize that

1154
01:03:02,044 --> 01:03:06,007
but the comedy of these people
is very, very tragic, but it's there.

1155
01:03:06,340 --> 01:03:08,676
And they use it a lot.

1156
01:03:09,051 --> 01:03:12,471
And they call what we call
"breaking balls" a lot.

1157
01:03:14,098 --> 01:03:17,435
They'll always take a shot at you
and say something funny about you.

1158
01:03:17,518 --> 01:03:20,479
“I don't like those shoes.
Where'd you buy them?"

1159
01:03:20,730 --> 01:03:24,275
Or something about your hairdo,
or your clothes or your...

1160
01:03:25,318 --> 01:03:27,153
Not your wife, not your children but

1161
01:03:27,236 --> 01:03:29,405
something about you and they'll always say,

1162
01:03:29,488 --> 01:03:31,699
"Frank, are you still
wearing that shirt again?

1163
01:03:31,782 --> 01:03:33,909
"Take a break, for Christ's sake.”

1164
01:03:34,493 --> 01:03:36,412
And they always have comedics

1165
01:03:36,495 --> 01:03:38,956
'cause when they get serious,
they're serious.

1166
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:41,834
So everything other than serious is funny.

1167
01:03:42,043 --> 01:03:43,294
And they go for the laughs.

1168
01:03:43,377 --> 01:03:46,005
They always go for the humor of it.

1169
01:03:46,297 --> 01:03:49,425
So, Joe and I being essentially comedians

1170
01:03:49,508 --> 01:03:52,595
and musicians, and entertainers,

1171
01:03:53,471 --> 01:03:57,433
you see that in the characters,
and we had the opportunity to do that.

1172
01:03:57,892 --> 01:04:00,936
And I addressed them as being people,

1173
01:04:02,980 --> 01:04:06,400
l don't wanna say average people,
but they're just human beings

1174
01:04:06,484 --> 01:04:08,694
and they travel the earth
and do what they do.

1175
01:04:08,778 --> 01:04:10,529
And they're in a business.

1176
01:04:10,863 --> 01:04:14,533
Sometime in their life
they got caught into this lifestyle

1177
01:04:14,617 --> 01:04:18,454
and the attractiveness of it
is what drives them, I guess.

1178
01:04:18,829 --> 01:04:23,125
I don't know what it takes
to pull a trigger and kill somebody.

1179
01:04:24,043 --> 01:04:27,338
That's beyond comprehension to me.
But evidently,

1180
01:04:28,714 --> 01:04:32,385
this lifestyle demands that kind of action,
and they do it.

1181
01:04:33,677 --> 01:04:38,474
To play that, I think you gotta play it
with the utmost honesty you can play it.

1182
01:04:40,101 --> 01:04:42,520
'Cause they're not fearful when they do it

1183
01:04:42,603 --> 01:04:46,357
So you can't be fearful as an actor doing it.

1184
01:04:46,690 --> 01:04:49,110
You have to be sincere about it.

1185
01:04:49,944 --> 01:04:51,737
I mean, that's my feelings.

1186
01:04:53,656 --> 01:04:54,740
You just do it.

1187
01:04:54,824 --> 01:04:59,120
I met a lot of people in my life,
in the music business and whatever

1188
01:04:59,537 --> 01:05:01,747
who lived the lifestyle.

1189
01:05:02,039 --> 01:05:05,501
They all seemed to have the same character
going through them

1190
01:05:06,460 --> 01:05:08,754
where they justify their actions

1191
01:05:08,838 --> 01:05:13,050
by the fact that they do what they do
for business reasons.

1192
01:05:14,051 --> 01:05:15,386
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

1193
01:05:15,469 --> 01:05:19,056
PILEGGI: The kind of violence,
we don't make up.

1194
01:05:20,266 --> 01:05:23,018
We're simply telling the story.

1195
01:05:23,102 --> 01:05:25,146
Just the way you tell the story that

1196
01:05:25,229 --> 01:05:28,399
Ace fell in love with Ginger
and she had a boyfriend on the side,

1197
01:05:28,482 --> 01:05:31,527
Just as you tell the story
that she drives her car into his

1198
01:05:31,610 --> 01:05:34,321
on their lawn
and steps all over the petunias,

1199
01:05:34,405 --> 01:05:36,824
you have to tell the violent part.

1200
01:05:36,907 --> 01:05:38,617
And in the violent part,

1201
01:05:39,076 --> 01:05:42,788
Nicky literally put a guy's head in a vice.

1202
01:05:42,997 --> 01:05:45,457
That's the way
they tried to get this guy to talk.

1203
01:05:45,541 --> 01:05:47,918
They were in a workshop

1204
01:05:48,043 --> 01:05:51,505
and the fastest way to do it
was to put the guy's head in a vice.

1205
01:05:51,589 --> 01:05:53,007
And finally the guy...

1206
01:05:53,090 --> 01:05:55,759
The guy was just a stubborn man.
He would not talk.

1207
01:05:55,843 --> 01:05:59,096
He should've looked at the vice
and given Nicky anything he wanted.

1208
01:05:59,180 --> 01:06:02,933
Nicky didn't want to. "I don't wanna put
your head. Don't make me do this."”

1209
01:06:03,017 --> 01:06:05,478
That was what... "Don't make me do this."

1210
01:06:05,561 --> 01:06:08,397
Can you imagine saying that to somebody
as you put his...

1211
01:06:08,481 --> 01:06:12,484
See, Nicky was blaming the guy
who he's killing

1212
01:06:12,985 --> 01:06:14,695
for forcing him to force him to...

1213
01:06:14,778 --> 01:06:17,573
That's the kind of mentality
you're dealing with.

1214
01:06:17,656 --> 01:06:19,825
But he did do that and it's a horrible scene.

1215
01:06:19,909 --> 01:06:21,994
But it actually happened.

1216
01:06:23,204 --> 01:06:27,208
It so identifies the Nicky character.

1217
01:06:28,125 --> 01:06:31,420
Just by his saying something like,
"Don't make me do this”,

1218
01:06:31,504 --> 01:06:33,297
you know who he is.

1219
01:06:33,964 --> 01:06:36,050
And you can't leave it out. I mean, why?

1220
01:06:36,133 --> 01:06:38,636
Don't make the movie
if you're gonna leave that out.

1221
01:06:38,719 --> 01:06:40,763
That's what you're making the movie about.

1222
01:06:40,846 --> 01:06:43,015
People may be offended
and think it's horrible.

1223
01:06:43,098 --> 01:06:45,351
Well, don't go see the movie. I don't care.

1224
01:06:45,434 --> 01:06:48,270
If you're gonna do it
you may as well do it right.

1225
01:06:48,562 --> 01:06:50,231
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

1226
01:06:50,314 --> 01:06:53,234
SCORSESE: The character of Spilotro
that Nicky Santoro is based on,

1227
01:06:53,317 --> 01:06:57,071
what Spilotro had actually done
in the late '60s in Chicago.

1228
01:06:57,154 --> 01:06:58,864
A murder occurred.

1229
01:07:00,282 --> 01:07:03,369
An unnecessary and brutal thing
that we show off.

1230
01:07:03,994 --> 01:07:07,998
Poor woman gets killed and the guys
say, "We wanna know who did this.

1231
01:07:08,082 --> 01:07:09,792
"He's gotta be taught a lesson.”

1232
01:07:09,875 --> 01:07:14,213
And in that frame of mind,
those people then have to catch someone

1233
01:07:14,296 --> 01:07:16,131
and when they do, the guy's not talking.

1234
01:07:16,215 --> 01:07:19,510
They have to do terrible things.
Otherwise their head's in the vice.

1235
01:07:19,593 --> 01:07:24,348
That's why you get a guy like Santoro
to question this gentleman

1236
01:07:24,431 --> 01:07:28,060
and also I have respect for him, because
he keeps his mouth shut. It's amazing.

1237
01:07:28,143 --> 01:07:29,186
Joe felt strongly

1238
01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:32,189
“I don't wanna be just the bad guy,
putting heads in a vice."

1239
01:07:32,273 --> 01:07:33,899
'Cause that's what happened in reality.

1240
01:07:33,983 --> 01:07:37,570
He said, "I got it. What if I'm the guy...
'Please don't let me do this.

1241
01:07:37,653 --> 01:07:40,739
“Don't let me... Because I'll have to do it
l have to do it.'

1242
01:07:40,823 --> 01:07:44,034
"We've been here three days and nights,
you haven't said a word.

1243
01:07:44,118 --> 01:07:46,412
"I gotta do something now
that I'm not gonna like.

1244
01:07:46,495 --> 01:07:48,497
"“Please don't let me do it. Don't."

1245
01:07:48,580 --> 01:07:50,374
And the guy curses.

1246
01:07:50,457 --> 01:07:52,876
"Put his head in the vice now."
"Please stop it."

1247
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:54,587
“I'm gonna tighten it again.”

1248
01:07:54,670 --> 01:07:56,338
It goes on like this and you realize

1249
01:07:56,422 --> 01:07:58,424
what kind of frame of mind
you have to be in, what kind of person.

1250
01:07:58,507 --> 01:07:59,591
(LAUGHING)

1251
01:07:59,675 --> 01:08:00,884
But in his way, he's right.

1252
01:08:00,968 --> 01:08:03,137
He's telling him, "Just give it up, will you?"

1253
01:08:03,220 --> 01:08:08,058
The guy won't go, so Joe improvised
that angle into the scene.

1254
01:08:08,142 --> 01:08:09,643
It was much better.

1255
01:08:09,727 --> 01:08:13,105
We did have a problem with the eye.
We had a prosthetic in the eye

1256
01:08:13,188 --> 01:08:15,816
beginning to pop out.
At our first preview,

1257
01:08:15,983 --> 01:08:19,695
there were too many cuts
to this prosthetic effect that was happening.

1258
01:08:19,778 --> 01:08:22,865
The audience got upset
and I wasn't interested in that.

1259
01:08:24,033 --> 01:08:27,911
I realized that just the thought of it
got people quite upset.

1260
01:08:27,995 --> 01:08:29,413
So, two or three shots...

1261
01:08:29,496 --> 01:08:33,375
It was the first time I worked
with prosthetics, like a horror film.

1262
01:08:33,667 --> 01:08:38,005
I found that I was getting more involved
in the technical aspects of the prosthetic.

1263
01:08:38,088 --> 01:08:40,632
I realized that's not what it is.
It's what Joe is doing.

1264
01:08:40,716 --> 01:08:43,677
And what the young actor is doing
in the vice.

1265
01:08:43,761 --> 01:08:45,888
But it's really what Joe is doing.

1266
01:08:46,430 --> 01:08:50,893
That horrible aspect
of the humanity he still has

1267
01:08:51,310 --> 01:08:54,021
while still behaving like an animal, in a way.

1268
01:08:54,521 --> 01:08:56,231
You motherfucker!

1269
01:08:56,690 --> 01:08:58,984
Frankie, do him a fucking favor.

1270
01:08:59,318 --> 01:09:01,487
SAM: Word got around that finally...

1271
01:09:01,570 --> 01:09:03,072
ANNQOUNCER: Frank Vincent.

1272
01:09:03,155 --> 01:09:05,282
VINCENT: Vegas, I had been before.

1273
01:09:05,532 --> 01:09:09,745
Only one time before when I visited all...
Joe and I actually went together.

1274
01:09:10,579 --> 01:09:13,374
But I was in Vegas for four months
for this film.

1275
01:09:13,457 --> 01:09:17,961
So we lived in a Marriott residence
and we took our cats with us,

1276
01:09:18,295 --> 01:09:20,881
my wife Kathy and .

1277
01:09:22,132 --> 01:09:26,720
You play slot machines
in the supermarket, at the car washes.

1278
01:09:27,137 --> 01:09:30,140
I was living a life in Vegas

1279
01:09:30,766 --> 01:09:33,477
and thank God I wasn't in a hotel
or a casino

1280
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:36,897
but it really made you feel

1281
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:39,775
what actually happened by living there.

1282
01:09:40,109 --> 01:09:43,320
And the whole rhythm and the beat
of Vegas,

1283
01:09:43,904 --> 01:09:46,740
I think, came out in everybody.

1284
01:09:46,824 --> 01:09:49,785
There's a very huge afttraction to Vegas.
Very huge.

1285
01:09:50,202 --> 01:09:53,539
But I think that most people go to Vegas
and stay a week.

1286
01:09:54,039 --> 01:09:57,709
And they just let it all out
and stay up all night.

1287
01:09:57,793 --> 01:10:00,963
But when you're there
for four months, you...

1288
01:10:01,046 --> 01:10:04,967
We went out here, we went out there,
once or twice a week.

1289
01:10:05,467 --> 01:10:09,179
Plus we were in a casino.
We did a month of nights in the Riviera.

1290
01:10:09,930 --> 01:10:12,474
Nights. We would come home
in the morning

1291
01:10:12,599 --> 01:10:16,603
and put blankets on the windows
to keep the sunlight out.

1292
01:10:16,687 --> 01:10:20,566
'Cause you wake up at 9:00 in the morning,
it's 100 degrees in Vegas.

1293
01:10:20,649 --> 01:10:22,734
And the sun is blasting. It's the desert.

1294
01:10:22,818 --> 01:10:24,027
So to sleep...

1295
01:10:24,111 --> 01:10:27,239
And if you only work
two, three days this week

1296
01:10:27,489 --> 01:10:30,743
you still had to stay up,
because you couldn't turn around.

1297
01:10:31,326 --> 01:10:35,080
So we would go visit the set
if we weren't working,

1298
01:10:35,164 --> 01:10:37,207
stay up till 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning

1299
01:10:37,291 --> 01:10:42,129
and we spent a lot of social time together
because we were there for the holidays.

1300
01:10:44,673 --> 01:10:46,675
We have a mutual friend who lives in Vegas.

1301
01:10:46,759 --> 01:10:50,637
We spent New Years,
we spent Thanksgiving and Christmas.

1302
01:10:51,180 --> 01:10:54,516
We all got together
and the guitars came out.

1303
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:56,643
We sang, and ate, and drank.

1304
01:10:56,727 --> 01:10:59,146
So it was really quite a social event, also.

1305
01:10:59,229 --> 01:11:03,192
We visited a friend,
and he would cook macaroni.

1306
01:11:03,275 --> 01:11:06,945
We'd eat, and drink, and have a good time
because you didn't wanna go out.

1307
01:11:07,029 --> 01:11:09,531
Everybody knew you
and you had no privacy.

1308
01:11:09,615 --> 01:11:13,702
Especially when we were shooting the film
because everybody knew we were in town.

1309
01:11:13,786 --> 01:11:16,330
And it was mayhem.

1310
01:11:16,580 --> 01:11:19,124
So it was a great, great experience.
I loved it.

1311
01:11:19,208 --> 01:11:22,503
I loved shooting the film.
I loved being in Vegas for four months.

1312
01:11:22,586 --> 01:11:24,087
I haven't been back.

1313
01:11:24,171 --> 01:11:27,716
I had been back once,
Just to shoot some stuff

1314
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:29,843
but it was a great experience.

1315
01:11:34,097 --> 01:11:36,517
Just a little. That a girl.

1316
01:11:38,644 --> 01:11:40,854
- You wanna go to Mommy?
- Wanna come to Mommy?

1317
01:11:40,938 --> 01:11:42,773
It's all right, sweetheart.

1318
01:11:42,856 --> 01:11:45,901
I need to talk to you. I need some money.

1319
01:11:47,903 --> 01:11:50,072
- What do you need?
- Got her?

1320
01:11:51,782 --> 01:11:54,159
I need a lot. I need more than usual.

1321
01:11:54,243 --> 01:11:55,327
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

1322
01:11:55,410 --> 01:11:58,205
PILEGGI: I'm sure there could've been
another woman in the world

1323
01:11:58,288 --> 01:11:59,581
and there are millions out there

1324
01:11:59,665 --> 01:12:04,002
whose husbands are just as obsessive
about money, and just the accounting.

1325
01:12:04,336 --> 01:12:07,923
"Where is this?"
It's neal. He's clean. He's neat.

1326
01:12:08,006 --> 01:12:12,177
Those 50 suit jackets upstairs
are all on perfect hangers

1327
01:12:13,011 --> 01:12:15,138
in a beautiful closet.

1328
01:12:15,222 --> 01:12:18,475
His house is immaculate. I've been to it.
Everything is...

1329
01:12:19,309 --> 01:12:23,313
He just lives a clean, rather enviable life.

1330
01:12:24,189 --> 01:12:27,067
There are women
who would find that very appealing,

1331
01:12:27,150 --> 01:12:29,319
who would find great comfort in it.

1332
01:12:30,070 --> 01:12:32,531
Ginger never had to worry
about a penny in her life.

1333
01:12:32,614 --> 01:12:36,285
She didn't have to worry about anything.
Ace would handle everything.

1334
01:12:36,368 --> 01:12:39,621
She could have just played tennis
and taken care of the kids,

1335
01:12:39,705 --> 01:12:42,457
taken them to school,
helped them with their homework,

1336
01:12:42,541 --> 01:12:44,209
cooked once in a while or gone out.

1337
01:12:44,293 --> 01:12:46,545
Whatever she wanted, he would do for her.

1338
01:12:46,628 --> 01:12:49,089
But she was an independent woman.

1339
01:12:50,299 --> 01:12:53,468
She had been making money
and earning money on her own

1340
01:12:53,594 --> 01:12:56,763
and was resistant to anything
he tried to impose.

1341
01:12:57,431 --> 01:12:59,474
And so that was the problem they had.

1342
01:12:59,558 --> 01:13:03,562
Had she been a different woman, I'm sure
that marriage would be going on today.

1343
01:13:03,645 --> 01:13:05,230
But of course, he wasn't interested.

1344
01:13:05,314 --> 01:13:07,524
There were other women
he could have married

1345
01:13:07,608 --> 01:13:09,151
but Ginger was the one he wanted.

1346
01:13:09,234 --> 01:13:12,821
He really loved that woman,
the woman he marrieq, truly loved her.

1347
01:13:13,405 --> 01:13:17,909
They had terrific kids,
and yet it couldn't work.

1348
01:13:17,993 --> 01:13:22,080
And he looks back now with great sadness
at what happened.

1349
01:13:22,331 --> 01:13:25,500
Maybe he or she
could have done it differently

1350
01:13:25,584 --> 01:13:26,752
but it didn't work.

1351
01:13:26,835 --> 01:13:31,798
She was obviously a sick woman.
She was addicted to pills and to alcohol.

1352
01:13:31,923 --> 01:13:33,842
He could never get her out of that.

1353
01:13:33,925 --> 01:13:36,261
Well, that was the heart of the story

1354
01:13:36,345 --> 01:13:39,431
and more important to me
and I think even to Marty

1355
01:13:39,514 --> 01:13:42,017
than the skimming and all the mob stuff.

1356
01:13:56,698 --> 01:13:58,950
She's leaving the bank now.

1357
01:13:59,701 --> 01:14:01,119
I'll follow her.

1358
01:14:01,203 --> 01:14:02,621
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

1359
01:14:02,704 --> 01:14:05,540
STONE: That scene had tremendous truth,
l thought,

1360
01:14:06,208 --> 01:14:09,211
and was really powerful, even though

1361
01:14:10,545 --> 01:14:13,715
neither Lester nor I had much dialogue,

1362
01:14:14,341 --> 01:14:18,887
there was a lot of dialogue between us,

1363
01:14:19,388 --> 01:14:22,891
a lot of communication in that scene.

1364
01:14:23,183 --> 01:14:25,227
And a lot of

1365
01:14:25,977 --> 01:14:30,482
whatever had been left
or innocent in her was over.

1366
01:14:30,565 --> 01:14:35,070
And the break of her was huge.

1367
01:14:35,237 --> 01:14:37,864
And the primal

1368
01:14:40,367 --> 01:14:43,495
crisis in her was really

1369
01:14:45,247 --> 01:14:46,415
gigantic.

1370
01:14:47,416 --> 01:14:51,378
Bob Richardson shot that scene
particularly well

1371
01:14:51,837 --> 01:14:53,880
and made it recall

1372
01:14:54,423 --> 01:14:59,594
the certain unrealized seediness
of that period.

1373
01:15:00,178 --> 01:15:02,931
The drugs, the clothes,

1374
01:15:05,183 --> 01:15:09,021
the way that everybody was so stoned
but nobody really thought about it.

1375
01:15:09,104 --> 01:15:11,273
The way people would sit in a restaurant

1376
01:15:11,356 --> 01:15:14,317
and flip over a bread plate
and start doing a bunch of blow.

1377
01:15:14,401 --> 01:15:16,653
And people wouldn't even
really think about it.

1378
01:15:16,737 --> 01:15:19,281
But that's what was happening
in that period.

1379
01:15:19,614 --> 01:15:24,536
And just the way that people acted out
in the craziness of that period

1380
01:15:24,745 --> 01:15:28,623
was also captured, just in that certain...

1381
01:15:29,916 --> 01:15:34,713
He had, like a 55 degree down angle.

1382
01:15:35,547 --> 01:15:37,966
And that look,

1383
01:15:38,467 --> 01:15:42,304
at the three of them in the booth,
and Bob's sort of heaviness

1384
01:15:43,096 --> 01:15:47,142
and everybody's behavior,
mixed with the clothes...

1385
01:15:47,476 --> 01:15:49,144
And Lester had,

1386
01:15:49,436 --> 01:15:53,273
l thought Jimmy captured
this amazing body language

1387
01:15:53,607 --> 01:15:56,943
of that guy in that period.
And he had great shoes.

1388
01:15:57,277 --> 01:16:00,822
And there was something
about everybody's body language

1389
01:16:01,323 --> 01:16:03,158
and the dialogue and the...

1390
01:16:03,450 --> 01:16:05,243
We didn't see anybody do drugs

1391
01:16:05,327 --> 01:16:08,455
but you were clear that everybody
was doing drugs.

1392
01:16:09,831 --> 01:16:11,374
It just was so captured

1393
01:16:11,458 --> 01:16:15,670
in the particular kind of lighting,
the fluorescent light.

1394
01:16:15,921 --> 01:16:20,175
It captured that whole coke weird thing

1395
01:16:20,258 --> 01:16:22,594
that everybody was on in that period.

1396
01:16:22,844 --> 01:16:25,013
And then her primal break.

1397
01:16:25,847 --> 01:16:28,350
And the way he shot it, with the sky...

1398
01:16:29,017 --> 01:16:32,145
He just gets the psychological

1399
01:16:32,437 --> 01:16:36,858
density of emotion

1400
01:16:38,193 --> 01:16:40,278
very clearly, Marty.

1401
01:16:42,781 --> 01:16:44,866
(GINGER HYSTERICALLY SOBBING)

1402
01:16:50,038 --> 01:16:51,623
Piece of shit.

1403
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:02,801
LESTER: Do it yourself, you
chickenshit cocksucker!

1404
01:17:04,344 --> 01:17:05,554
ANNOUNCER: Rita Ryack.

1405
01:17:05,637 --> 01:17:07,722
RYACK: We used a Ilot of leather on her

1406
01:17:07,806 --> 01:17:10,976
because it was very much of the period
and it's also very...

1407
01:17:11,059 --> 01:17:12,644
It's an organic fabric.

1408
01:17:12,727 --> 01:17:16,565
It's an animal fabric and she was an animal.

1409
01:17:18,149 --> 01:17:20,986
Frank Rosenthal had said to me,
he called Ginger...

1410
01:17:21,069 --> 01:17:23,905
l remember his saying,
"She could charm a snake.”

1411
01:17:24,156 --> 01:17:27,742
I think we did use the snake
as a metaphor

1412
01:17:28,577 --> 01:17:30,161
on all the characlers.

1413
01:17:30,912 --> 01:17:35,250
I believe she was wearing
a kind of black chain-mail halter top.

1414
01:17:35,709 --> 01:17:38,211
It was quite revealing, with a zipper.

1415
01:17:38,378 --> 01:17:40,672
That was a real piece from the period.

1416
01:17:41,756 --> 01:17:45,594
We had black,
very tight leather pants made for her.

1417
01:17:46,428 --> 01:17:48,763
And that scene shows a lot of back.

1418
01:17:49,055 --> 01:17:50,348
It was very seductive.

1419
01:17:50,432 --> 01:17:53,351
I never seen him act like that
with anybody else.

1420
01:17:54,269 --> 01:17:57,439
I think he's crazy about you.
He really loves you.

1421
01:17:57,522 --> 01:17:59,274
- He does.
- Come on.

1422
01:17:59,399 --> 01:18:01,526
I went into this with my eyes open.

1423
01:18:01,610 --> 01:18:03,695
I knew the bottom could drop out
at any time.

1424
01:18:03,778 --> 01:18:07,782
I'm a working girl. You don't think
I'm gonna go into a situation like this

1425
01:18:07,866 --> 01:18:09,951
if I don't think I'm covered on the back end?

1426
01:18:10,035 --> 01:18:11,119
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

1427
01:18:11,202 --> 01:18:12,579
STONE: Joe Pesci.

1428
01:18:12,704 --> 01:18:17,584
First of all, Joe was one of the main people
who really wanted me to be in this film.

1429
01:18:18,084 --> 01:18:22,631
He championed me, he believed in me,
he supported me through this film.

1430
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:30,388
He's a great person. He's a great actor.

1431
01:18:31,431 --> 01:18:35,143
But I tell you, you will never...

1432
01:18:37,103 --> 01:18:39,648
When he is in his character...

1433
01:18:40,482 --> 01:18:42,984
He plays such a scary guy in this movie.

1434
01:18:43,652 --> 01:18:47,405
And I'm telling you,
you're scared when he's in the room.

1435
01:18:47,489 --> 01:18:50,659
It's not like,
"Ha, ha, he's playing that character.”

1436
01:18:51,660 --> 01:18:56,414
It's so terrifying
to be in the room with him

1437
01:18:56,498 --> 01:19:00,001
when he's playing the character,
that you can't breathe.

1438
01:19:00,168 --> 01:19:04,547
It's not like Joe's playing that character.

1439
01:19:04,965 --> 01:19:09,678
He's that guy to such a degree that it's so...

1440
01:19:10,679 --> 01:19:15,684
It's just so terrifying
that you would do anything,

1441
01:19:16,059 --> 01:19:18,561
anything to make it work.

1442
01:19:20,522 --> 01:19:24,985
When he's working with you
and you're in that scene with him,

1443
01:19:25,068 --> 01:19:28,154
you're in that scene,
and you're in that scene to stay alive.

1444
01:19:28,238 --> 01:19:32,534
It's not like you're in that scene because,
you know, "Action, cut.”

1445
01:19:33,201 --> 01:19:36,997
You're in that scene. You're with him.
You're working.

1446
01:19:38,707 --> 01:19:41,710
And it's real It's so...

1447
01:19:42,210 --> 01:19:44,796
He is so true.

1448
01:19:44,879 --> 01:19:47,716
I have never in my life...

1449
01:19:48,174 --> 01:19:49,676
l mean, probably...

1450
01:19:50,051 --> 01:19:52,137
I've worked with George C. Scott.

1451
01:19:52,595 --> 01:19:56,433
There is no finer actor.

1452
01:19:56,891 --> 01:20:00,395
But I have never worked with anybody

1453
01:20:00,562 --> 01:20:04,858
who is so the character

1454
01:20:06,067 --> 01:20:11,197
that you don't have a microcosm
of your being that you think you're acting.

1455
01:20:12,073 --> 01:20:15,035
When you're with Pesci, it's happening.

1456
01:20:17,537 --> 01:20:18,538
(PHONE RINGING)

1457
01:20:18,621 --> 01:20:21,624
County Commissioner Pat Webb
is here to see you.

1458
01:20:22,208 --> 01:20:24,711
- Give me a minute.
- Okay. Just a minute.

1459
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:39,893
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

1460
01:20:39,976 --> 01:20:43,772
SCORSESE: The color of the film and the
widescreen was very important.

1461
01:20:43,938 --> 01:20:47,442
The costumes were very important.
We had Ryack do the costumes.

1462
01:20:47,817 --> 01:20:51,571
De Niro's character, Rothstein,
is based on Frank "Lefty” Rosenthal

1463
01:20:51,780 --> 01:20:56,618
whose actual wardrobe was
even more extreme than what we showed.

1464
01:20:57,327 --> 01:20:58,411
Much more.

1465
01:20:59,287 --> 01:21:02,540
Always within suits and ties,
but still, it was very extreme.

1466
01:21:02,624 --> 01:21:06,461
One of my favorites is the scene
in his office

1467
01:21:06,586 --> 01:21:10,382
where he has his pants in the closet
because you don't wanna ruin the crease.

1468
01:21:10,465 --> 01:21:15,095
And why not? I understand it.
He has to give a certain image to people.

1469
01:21:15,178 --> 01:21:18,681
If there's a meeting, then he'd go,
put the pants on, sit properly

1470
01:21:18,765 --> 01:21:23,311
without ruining them, the way I'm ruining
the crease in my pants, and have a meeting.

1471
01:21:23,770 --> 01:21:27,232
His suit, I think, is the color of aqua-blue
or So.

1472
01:21:27,315 --> 01:21:31,486
Who comes in, L.Q. Jones,
who is one of my favorite actors.

1473
01:21:31,820 --> 01:21:35,115
He's been in the movies
since the early '50s, Raoul Walsh films

1474
01:21:35,198 --> 01:21:39,160
of course, reached legendary heights there
with Sam Peckinpah.

1475
01:21:39,536 --> 01:21:41,704
He'd often play with Strother Martin.

1476
01:21:41,788 --> 01:21:43,957
Two extraordinary people together

1477
01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:46,000
almost to my mind like

1478
01:21:47,627 --> 01:21:50,880
Joe Pesci in a way, the urban film,

1479
01:21:51,005 --> 01:21:53,842
L.Q. Jones is very much of the West,
in a way.

1480
01:21:54,175 --> 01:21:55,426
And so to have

1481
01:21:55,510 --> 01:21:59,389
L.Q. Jones and De Niro in the same frame,
l thought was pretty interesting,

1482
01:21:59,472 --> 01:22:00,598
let alone the same scene.

1483
01:22:00,682 --> 01:22:05,186
And also, the scene in the dramatic
structure, on which everything pivots.

1484
01:22:06,521 --> 01:22:10,650
All Ace has to do is say,
"Okay, I'll let the guy stay in here.”

1485
01:22:11,234 --> 01:22:15,738
Because L.Q. Jones says, "Even if you give
him a spot further on down the trough..."”

1486
01:22:16,322 --> 01:22:19,200
Meaning somewhere in the back
Just as a token.

1487
01:22:19,701 --> 01:22:22,579
And he said “I can't do it
he's costing us money.”

1488
01:22:22,912 --> 01:22:25,081
It is the element of pride, the downfall.

1489
01:22:25,165 --> 01:22:29,043
The pride that he could take up with
a woman whom everybody wants.

1490
01:22:31,337 --> 01:22:35,175
She was an extraordinary woman
that everybody loved.

1491
01:22:35,258 --> 01:22:39,888
All the researchers there, all the people,
we're talking old cops and wiseguys

1492
01:22:40,388 --> 01:22:43,224
and gambling denizens
and all these people,

1493
01:22:43,349 --> 01:22:45,268
they always had great words for this woman.

1494
01:22:45,351 --> 01:22:46,644
They loved her.

1495
01:22:46,769 --> 01:22:48,605
But in his pride, he thought

1496
01:22:48,730 --> 01:22:50,982
that was his flaw, that he could do anything.

1497
01:22:51,065 --> 01:22:53,193
If she can love him, he could

1498
01:22:53,735 --> 01:22:56,613
be so difficult politically

1499
01:22:56,738 --> 01:22:58,865
with the natives of the area.

1500
01:22:58,948 --> 01:23:01,451
These are new guys
who are just guests here.

1501
01:23:01,534 --> 01:23:04,204
L.Q. Jones told him, "You're just a guest.”

1502
01:23:04,746 --> 01:23:08,958
It's the Chicago power and the organized
crime power against Nevada.

1503
01:23:10,210 --> 01:23:13,087
I don't know,
maybe he stepped too far over the line

1504
01:23:13,213 --> 01:23:17,634
but he couldn't let it go.
And that's a fatal flaw when he doesn't put

1505
01:23:17,759 --> 01:23:19,135
that guy back on the job

1506
01:23:19,219 --> 01:23:23,056
or just something to just placate
a few people around to make things easier

1507
01:23:23,139 --> 01:23:24,182
for everybody.

1508
01:23:24,265 --> 01:23:27,518
No. He's the boss, he's the one who says
who dances at the show,

1509
01:23:27,602 --> 01:23:30,146
he's the one who says what costumes
they wear.

1510
01:23:30,230 --> 01:23:33,316
It becomes pretty much an old Greek myth

1511
01:23:33,441 --> 01:23:36,653
where they just collapse based on pride.

1512
01:23:36,778 --> 01:23:40,782
And so costumes were very important
and the element of the cultures,

1513
01:23:40,907 --> 01:23:44,410
the mix of cultures, the wise guy culture
mixed with the West

1514
01:23:44,494 --> 01:23:46,287
was very important.

1515
01:23:49,499 --> 01:23:50,792
Organized crime

1516
01:23:50,917 --> 01:23:55,505
being almost representative of aspects
of the Wild West frontier

1517
01:23:55,630 --> 01:23:57,173
in a way.

1518
01:23:57,298 --> 01:24:02,262
In my mind, the closing of the old Las Vegas
was like the end of the frontier, in a sense.

1519
01:24:03,805 --> 01:24:06,933
For my ulcer, I take a half of one of these.

1520
01:24:07,100 --> 01:24:09,143
That's when I have extreme pain.

1521
01:24:09,269 --> 01:24:12,563
I had a three-month supply.
What did you do with them?

1522
01:24:12,647 --> 01:24:15,024
You didn't have to beat him up.

1523
01:24:15,149 --> 01:24:16,317
What?

1524
01:24:17,110 --> 01:24:19,487
I was just trying to help him.

1525
01:24:20,613 --> 01:24:22,824
Like I'm sleeping with the guy.

1526
01:24:22,949 --> 01:24:24,784
Yeah, how do I know?

1527
01:24:25,368 --> 01:24:28,580
You can't make me stop
caring about people.

1528
01:24:28,663 --> 01:24:30,957
- What?
- I said,

1529
01:24:32,041 --> 01:24:34,669
you can't make me stop caring...

1530
01:24:34,836 --> 01:24:36,212
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

1531
01:24:36,296 --> 01:24:38,006
STONE: Bob is simply

1532
01:24:39,173 --> 01:24:40,675
the finest actor,

1533
01:24:41,467 --> 01:24:44,012
the most generous actor

1534
01:24:45,138 --> 01:24:47,390
and the most precise actor.

1535
01:24:48,516 --> 01:24:52,478
His work ethic is beyond belief.
There's no fooling around.

1536
01:24:53,146 --> 01:24:55,773
I mean, you're not, like, goofing around
between takes.

1537
01:24:55,857 --> 01:24:59,110
He is concentrated, focused and together.

1538
01:24:59,193 --> 01:25:02,697
But if you're in the middle of a scene

1539
01:25:02,864 --> 01:25:05,992
and it's great but it's not superb,

1540
01:25:07,201 --> 01:25:09,203
he'll just say,

1541
01:25:09,871 --> 01:25:13,374
at some point in the scene,
Just give me a glance like this.

1542
01:25:13,750 --> 01:25:16,210
You'lI think, "Yeah, all right."”

1543
01:25:16,336 --> 01:25:20,798
You give him the glance, he's doing
something that just sets it on fire.

1544
01:25:20,882 --> 01:25:24,636
I mean, he always knows
what that tiny movement,

1545
01:25:24,761 --> 01:25:28,473
small dynamic, little thing is that'll just

1546
01:25:28,890 --> 01:25:31,059
set that scene aflame.

1547
01:25:31,768 --> 01:25:34,103
He's so great.

1548
01:25:34,395 --> 01:25:36,230
I mean, it's not like,

1549
01:25:36,481 --> 01:25:39,817
"Yeah, it's De Niro, he's a great actor.”

1550
01:25:40,109 --> 01:25:43,029
It's not just because he comes
with his stuff.

1551
01:25:43,112 --> 01:25:46,741
He comes with his stuff
and he knows the bigger picture stuff

1552
01:25:46,824 --> 01:25:50,870
and he knows your stuff
and he knows how that stuff goes together.

1553
01:25:50,953 --> 01:25:56,000
And he knows if one of the pieces
is like this, how to make it happen.

1554
01:25:59,587 --> 01:26:03,091
There is never a scene that you go,
"It was good.”

1555
01:26:04,926 --> 01:26:08,262
He knows the piece,
he knows if it's your piece,

1556
01:26:09,013 --> 01:26:11,391
his piece, a camera piece.

1557
01:26:11,474 --> 01:26:14,769
He knows what the piece is,
to really make it go.

1558
01:26:15,311 --> 01:26:18,147
And he doesn't need it to be about him.

1559
01:26:19,357 --> 01:26:21,275
He's just astonishing.

1560
01:26:21,859 --> 01:26:23,111
ANNQOUNCER: Frank Vincent.

1561
01:26:23,194 --> 01:26:26,447
VINCENT: Bob's a very focused guy

1562
01:26:28,116 --> 01:26:30,743
and he gets the jokes. We were joking a Iot.

1563
01:26:30,827 --> 01:26:33,746
Joe and I were fooling around, and Marty...

1564
01:26:33,830 --> 01:26:36,958
You could always hear him laughing off set.

1565
01:26:37,333 --> 01:26:40,920
And Bob was right in there.
But when it comes time to work...

1566
01:26:41,003 --> 01:26:45,508
And all of us are the same way.
It's fun, getting set up, getting organized.

1567
01:26:45,633 --> 01:26:48,928
Then when it's time to do the stuff,
you gotta do the stuff.

1568
01:26:49,011 --> 01:26:52,974
I'm making it sound simple
but it's a little... You have to...

1569
01:26:53,391 --> 01:26:55,727
You have to know the guys,
know everybody.

1570
01:26:55,810 --> 01:26:57,812
And it's so close that it's good.

1571
01:26:57,895 --> 01:27:01,190
It comes out great
and you feel good about doing it.

1572
01:27:01,566 --> 01:27:05,236
We go through all this fucking trouble
and somebody's robbing us?

1573
01:27:05,528 --> 01:27:09,532
Like I said, it's part of the business.
It's considered leakage.

1574
01:27:09,657 --> 01:27:12,243
Leakage, my balls.
l want the guy who's robbing us.

1575
01:27:12,326 --> 01:27:15,079
NICKY: Even John Nance,
that's the guy who ran the scam,

1576
01:27:15,163 --> 01:27:17,582
he knew there wasn't much
he could do about it.

1577
01:27:17,665 --> 01:27:19,959
You gotta know that
a guy who helps you steal,

1578
01:27:20,042 --> 01:27:22,253
even if you take care of him real well,

1579
01:27:22,336 --> 01:27:24,297
he's gonna steal a little extra for himself.

1580
01:27:24,380 --> 01:27:26,507
Makes sense, don't it? Right?

1581
01:27:26,591 --> 01:27:30,011
You go try and make these hard-headed
old greaseballs understand that.

1582
01:27:30,094 --> 01:27:32,096
Why skim if we're being skimmed?

1583
01:27:32,180 --> 01:27:33,264
ANNQUNCER: Barbara De Fina.

1584
01:27:33,347 --> 01:27:36,726
DE FINA: Ellen Lewis has worked with Marty
for many years and

1585
01:27:36,893 --> 01:27:41,314
he's come, I think, to trust her
and also have a shorthand with her

1586
01:27:41,397 --> 01:27:44,650
so that she does a lot of the preliminaries.

1587
01:27:44,734 --> 01:27:49,781
Obviously, when it comes
to the big actors

1588
01:27:49,864 --> 01:27:51,991
he knows, sort of, who he wants.

1589
01:27:52,074 --> 01:27:54,368
When we get into the supporting roles

1590
01:27:54,452 --> 01:27:57,580
I think she's very valuable
and very important to him.

1591
01:27:59,457 --> 01:28:02,668
I think she suggested Kevin Pollak,
for example

1592
01:28:02,752 --> 01:28:04,879
and some of the comedians

1593
01:28:05,630 --> 01:28:09,383
and went out personally
and found all those older men

1594
01:28:09,967 --> 01:28:14,388
who, at the end, are wonderful
when the guy says, "Why take a chance?"

1595
01:28:15,056 --> 01:28:18,392
I mean, they're just great faces
and great characters.

1596
01:28:18,893 --> 01:28:20,728
I think that's her real strength.

1597
01:28:20,811 --> 01:28:25,566
But actors love to work with him,
So it's easy for him...

1598
01:28:26,150 --> 01:28:31,364
It's never easy,
but actors do tend to want to work with him.

1599
01:28:31,447 --> 01:28:36,077
So it's not as hard for him maybe,
as other directors, to get great actors.

1600
01:28:37,245 --> 01:28:41,582
Even though, if you look at
the smaller roles, he casts everything.

1601
01:28:41,749 --> 01:28:45,461
In this movie in particular,
the, sort of, older men

1602
01:28:46,003 --> 01:28:49,131
that, I guess, in St. Louis or wherever,

1603
01:28:49,465 --> 01:28:53,177
were all guys from the neighborhood
that Ellen found

1604
01:28:53,594 --> 01:28:57,431
who have since gone on to have
careers as actors, but they were real.

1605
01:28:57,515 --> 01:29:01,143
I mean, people would say, "You should
go see Charlie down the street.”

1606
01:29:01,227 --> 01:29:05,273
I mean, they're wonderful faces
and great voices

1607
01:29:05,857 --> 01:29:07,984
and different accents

1608
01:29:09,986 --> 01:29:15,157
and just great funny people
that everybody can relate to.

1609
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:17,868
Great casting.

1610
01:29:18,160 --> 01:29:19,203
OBERON: Thank you, Judge.

1611
01:29:19,287 --> 01:29:20,288
(GRAVEL POUNDING)

1612
01:29:20,371 --> 01:29:23,249
I believe he was fair,
and I'm delighted with the decision.

1613
01:29:23,332 --> 01:29:25,042
We got a problem.

1614
01:29:28,504 --> 01:29:31,299
It didn't go too well.
Green has to open up the books,

1615
01:29:31,382 --> 01:29:33,759
has to show how he got the financing.

1616
01:29:33,843 --> 01:29:35,511
That's not good.

1617
01:29:39,473 --> 01:29:41,559
NICKY: She was doing pretty
good with her lawsuit.

1618
01:29:41,642 --> 01:29:43,894
But before she could start
counting her money

1619
01:29:43,978 --> 01:29:46,772
the boys back home decided
to settle the case out of court.

1620
01:29:46,856 --> 01:29:48,065
ANNOUNCER: Thelma Schoonmaker.

1621
01:29:48,149 --> 01:29:52,695
SCHOONMAKER: I just think it's interesting,
having been in Las Vegas for the shooting

1622
01:29:53,696 --> 01:29:57,700
and watching it change...
It had already changed so much already.

1623
01:29:59,744 --> 01:30:03,873
But it's just astounding to me
that people can invest so much

1624
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:07,084
in a city which really has no right to exist.

1625
01:30:07,168 --> 01:30:11,339
It has no water. It has no way to grow food.

1626
01:30:11,756 --> 01:30:14,508
It's a completely artificial invention

1627
01:30:15,593 --> 01:30:19,263
and I'm just astounded
that people are pouring into that city.

1628
01:30:19,347 --> 01:30:23,476
I forget what I read, the figure of how many
people move to Las Vegas every year.

1629
01:30:23,559 --> 01:30:27,104
It's just frightening. Where will
the water come from in the future?

1630
01:30:27,188 --> 01:30:31,025
Particularly if the Supreme Court
decides to give the Colorado River water

1631
01:30:31,108 --> 01:30:35,363
back to California, or takes it away from
California and gives it to Las Vegas.

1632
01:30:35,446 --> 01:30:37,907
I just don't know, it's bizarre to me.

1633
01:30:38,032 --> 01:30:40,826
And it was bizarre to me
when we were there working.

1634
01:30:40,910 --> 01:30:44,121
It was interesting, but I just didn't get it.

1635
01:30:44,205 --> 01:30:45,373
(LAUGHS)

1636
01:30:45,456 --> 01:30:48,000
But I think I'm very much in the minority.

1637
01:30:48,084 --> 01:30:52,421
I once took the train across the country
with my husband, Michael Powell.

1638
01:30:52,546 --> 01:30:55,383
He insisted we take the train
wherever we went, if we could.

1639
01:30:55,466 --> 01:30:59,637
He loved trains. And we came across
the Sierra Nevada from San Francisco.

1640
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:03,432
We were heading through
this dense desert blackness.

1641
01:31:03,557 --> 01:31:07,395
Suddenly we saw a glow in the distance.
And it was Reno, Nevada.

1642
01:31:07,478 --> 01:31:09,689
As we approached, the glow got stronger,

1643
01:31:09,772 --> 01:31:12,817
then we stopped in Reno
and everybody got off the train

1644
01:31:12,900 --> 01:31:16,696
'cause it was filled with gamblers.
Then we pulled out of Reno, Nevada

1645
01:31:16,779 --> 01:31:19,699
and soon it was disappearing,
the glow in the back

1646
01:31:19,782 --> 01:31:23,202
and there was pitch blackness.
It's a very interesting concept.

1647
01:31:23,285 --> 01:31:27,873
I guess it has to do with gambling laws.
Obviously that is why these places exist.

1648
01:31:27,957 --> 01:31:29,333
Did he really say that?

1649
01:31:29,417 --> 01:31:32,503
Why, of course he really said that.
It's right here.

1650
01:31:32,962 --> 01:31:35,965
Has that man even filed for his license yet?

1651
01:31:36,257 --> 01:31:38,467
I don't know. We have to check the files.

1652
01:31:38,551 --> 01:31:41,470
Without getting your shorts in a knot,
would you do that?

1653
01:31:41,554 --> 01:31:45,516
And check closely, 'cause we may
have to kick a kike's ass out of town.

1654
01:31:46,976 --> 01:31:48,394
Thank you.

1655
01:31:49,937 --> 01:31:53,441
A Gaming Control Board investigation
of Tangiers executive...

1656
01:31:53,941 --> 01:31:55,401
ANNOUNCER: Thelma Schoonmaker.

1657
01:31:55,484 --> 01:31:57,153
SCHOONMAKER: There's a certain

1658
01:31:57,236 --> 01:32:00,406
roughness and crudity sometimes,
in transitions and things.

1659
01:32:00,489 --> 01:32:03,242
There's a kind of jagged, nervous,

1660
01:32:04,493 --> 01:32:07,329
strange lack of finessing transition.

1661
01:32:07,455 --> 01:32:11,167
So transitions don't happen smoothly.
They're kind of jarring.

1662
01:32:12,626 --> 01:32:16,547
Obviously, the editing style
was very much linked in

1663
01:32:16,630 --> 01:32:18,883
to the subject matter there.

1664
01:32:18,966 --> 01:32:23,220
It's impossible. It's booked up,
and it's very difficult to get in.

1665
01:32:23,512 --> 01:32:26,932
It's okay, I'll use the service entrance.
I'll see you at nine.

1666
01:32:27,016 --> 01:32:28,100
All right.

1667
01:32:28,184 --> 01:32:29,393
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

1668
01:32:29,477 --> 01:32:32,563
PILEGGI: That den scene is
a critical scene because

1669
01:32:32,646 --> 01:32:35,733
everything is in that,
everybody is in that room

1670
01:32:35,816 --> 01:32:38,152
and you see it falling apart.

1671
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:40,654
Ginger's drunk. It's morning

1672
01:32:40,821 --> 01:32:43,532
and Ginger's already loaded
in her tennis ouffit.

1673
01:32:43,657 --> 01:32:47,286
And Ace grabs her arm
and forces her down the stairs.

1674
01:32:47,369 --> 01:32:49,038
"Get out of here."

1675
01:32:49,663 --> 01:32:53,876
And Sharon Stone's resistance
to his helping her down the stairs

1676
01:32:54,001 --> 01:32:55,836
is so perfect.

1677
01:32:55,961 --> 01:32:59,215
It's such a brilliant piece of acting
on her part

1678
01:32:59,340 --> 01:33:01,717
because the way she resists his arm

1679
01:33:01,842 --> 01:33:05,513
is the way she has resisted him
throughout the entire drama.

1680
01:33:06,013 --> 01:33:07,932
I mean, that is when...

1681
01:33:08,015 --> 01:33:12,061
When Ace goes to help Sharon,
she holds back.

1682
01:33:12,895 --> 01:33:17,525
You see, in that scene,
if Sharon were in front of a truck

1683
01:33:17,691 --> 01:33:21,737
and the truck is coming, and Ace went
to push her out of the way of the truck

1684
01:33:21,862 --> 01:33:24,615
she would resist.
She'd rather get hit by a fruck

1685
01:33:24,698 --> 01:33:27,868
than have this son-of-a-bitch husband
of hers save her life.

1686
01:33:27,993 --> 01:33:31,747
I mean, that's how angry she is.
All of the tension.

1687
01:33:31,872 --> 01:33:35,042
The whole movie has been building,
in a sense, to that scene

1688
01:33:35,167 --> 01:33:37,837
where all of the players are playing it out.

1689
01:33:38,170 --> 01:33:43,342
I thought it was a brilliant scene
by Bob and Joe at the end

1690
01:33:44,885 --> 01:33:47,721
but equally brilliant by Sharon.

1691
01:33:48,264 --> 01:33:52,935
Just watch her resistance to his arm.
It's just great.

1692
01:33:53,060 --> 01:33:56,522
...you might have to take some kind of loss.

1693
01:33:59,859 --> 01:34:01,777
I think I want my money back.

1694
01:34:03,529 --> 01:34:04,989
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

1695
01:34:05,072 --> 01:34:07,241
SCORSESE: Working with the group
from Goodfellas

1696
01:34:07,366 --> 01:34:09,910
we had gotten into a routine, really.

1697
01:34:10,411 --> 01:34:13,455
A lot was shaped around De Niro and Pesci.

1698
01:34:14,290 --> 01:34:19,461
There was so much material on Ginger,
Sharon Stone's character

1699
01:34:21,881 --> 01:34:25,593
that there wasn't the need...
Her stuff was pretty well set down.

1700
01:34:25,885 --> 01:34:28,554
But within the relationship of the two men

1701
01:34:28,637 --> 01:34:32,099
and how the brains and the brawn,
So to speak, of the operation,

1702
01:34:32,933 --> 01:34:37,104
how they balance each other out,
and where you showed

1703
01:34:37,771 --> 01:34:39,440
the friction between the two.

1704
01:34:39,565 --> 01:34:44,653
How one would overstep the line
with each other.

1705
01:34:45,487 --> 01:34:48,324
When you have...
Two really excellent scenes for me

1706
01:34:48,449 --> 01:34:53,078
one in which Nicky Santoro
almost attacks a banker

1707
01:34:53,162 --> 01:34:56,624
in Rothstein's house,
and then they have this argument.

1708
01:34:57,166 --> 01:35:00,961
Rothstein is standing there
in a pink robe from Sulka.

1709
01:35:01,629 --> 01:35:06,008
The wonderful relationship between the two.
That's where things really break.

1710
01:35:06,425 --> 01:35:08,969
- You think he got the point?
- What are you doing?

1711
01:35:09,094 --> 01:35:12,765
He's a square guy, for Christ's sakes.
He's gonna run to the FBI.

1712
01:35:12,848 --> 01:35:15,559
That prick's been dodging me
for three weeks.

1713
01:35:15,643 --> 01:35:19,647
- You're trying to tell me what to do?
- I'm not trying to tell you what to do.

1714
01:35:19,772 --> 01:35:22,399
You're way out of line. Where's your head?

1715
01:35:22,483 --> 01:35:25,194
Where's my head?
Where's your fucking balls?

1716
01:35:25,319 --> 01:35:29,990
I'm trying to put something big together.
You know what I'm talking about.

1717
01:35:30,115 --> 01:35:32,701
If you're acting like this now,
how can I depend on you?

1718
01:35:32,826 --> 01:35:34,328
A lot of things gonna change.

1719
01:35:34,453 --> 01:35:35,913
ANNOUNCER: Thelma Schoonmaker.

1720
01:35:35,996 --> 01:35:39,333
SCHOONMAKER: It was the first time
that I had ever used digital editing

1721
01:35:39,458 --> 01:35:43,796
and I had a wonderful assistant
who trained me, named Scolt Brock

1722
01:35:44,171 --> 01:35:46,382
and he really taught me how to do it.

1723
01:35:46,507 --> 01:35:49,635
But it took a little bit of time
before I was comfortable with it.

1724
01:35:49,718 --> 01:35:52,179
But then I kicked in,
and I was off and running

1725
01:35:52,304 --> 01:35:55,516
and I did find it was very useful
for experimentation

1726
01:35:55,641 --> 01:35:59,478
that I would think nothing
of ripping into a scene

1727
01:35:59,561 --> 01:36:01,480
and trying another version of it.

1728
01:36:01,563 --> 01:36:05,192
I would just make a copy of my edit.
And that freed me up a lot.

1729
01:36:05,401 --> 01:36:09,697
It was very interesting
how that freed up experimentation.

1730
01:36:10,197 --> 01:36:13,534
Also, the fact that we could run
many more tracks was very helpful

1731
01:36:13,659 --> 01:36:16,829
because of the complex music texture
of the movie.

1732
01:36:17,037 --> 01:36:21,709
So previously, when I'd been working
with three sound heads at the most,

1733
01:36:22,209 --> 01:36:27,214
now I could have up to 8, or 10, or 16 tracks.

1734
01:36:28,215 --> 01:36:32,511
I wonder if the music would have been
as easy to interweave and create

1735
01:36:33,721 --> 01:36:38,892
such a dense, complex texture without it.
I don't think it would have happened.

1736
01:36:39,018 --> 01:36:43,564
We started mixing for ourselves,
for our own screenings.

1737
01:36:43,689 --> 01:36:47,067
We started mixing in the Lightworks,
which was also a new experience for me.

1738
01:36:47,192 --> 01:36:51,155
We used to go somewhere and spend
a lot of money in a sound facility

1739
01:36:51,238 --> 01:36:52,656
mixing very few tracks together.

1740
01:36:52,740 --> 01:36:55,868
Now we were mixing
an incredible number of them.

1741
01:36:55,951 --> 01:36:58,871
That was the beginning
of a different way of doing things

1742
01:36:58,954 --> 01:37:01,665
which we've gone on.
It's gotten more complicated now

1743
01:37:01,749 --> 01:37:04,585
So that our mixes
are actually taking much longer to do

1744
01:37:04,710 --> 01:37:07,921
because we have so many more tracks
that we can mix.

1745
01:37:08,130 --> 01:37:10,424
She came to me.

1746
01:37:11,091 --> 01:37:14,928
But Marty just loves to score
his own movies. He always has.

1747
01:37:16,263 --> 01:37:18,932
And he's done it in different ways.

1748
01:37:19,433 --> 01:37:23,645
Mean Streets, of course,
is one of the first great uses of rock 'n roll

1749
01:37:23,771 --> 01:37:25,606
in film scoring.

1750
01:37:26,940 --> 01:37:30,986
And Raging Bull was more subdued,
because it was of a different time

1751
01:37:31,111 --> 01:37:36,283
when music was coming through
tenement windows and from small radios.

1752
01:37:36,492 --> 01:37:40,454
Goodfellas, the music became very up-front,
because we had stereos

1753
01:37:40,579 --> 01:37:43,624
and everybody had great sound systems
in their cars.

1754
01:37:44,249 --> 01:37:48,337
So by the time we get to Casino,
music is just omnipresent in the culture.

1755
01:37:49,797 --> 01:37:54,426
Marty just loves creating a tapestry

1756
01:37:54,802 --> 01:37:58,097
that underlies the whole movie
with songs that he has heard

1757
01:37:58,180 --> 01:37:59,890
that he feels are appropriate.

1758
01:37:59,973 --> 01:38:04,478
Particularly, there's a Rolling Stones song
that is used under a montage

1759
01:38:04,561 --> 01:38:07,731
and we worked so long on that.
l remember making music cuts.

1760
01:38:07,815 --> 01:38:10,943
It was very hardq,
making the music cuts on that film

1761
01:38:11,610 --> 01:38:15,989
because we were doing them all ourselves,
and that was difficult.

1762
01:38:17,408 --> 01:38:20,994
So there's something kind of

1763
01:38:21,662 --> 01:38:25,165
very up-front and brash
about a lot of the music

1764
01:38:25,249 --> 01:38:27,501
which fits very well with Las Vegas.

1765
01:38:27,668 --> 01:38:28,752
ANNOUNCER: Rita Ryack.

1766
01:38:28,836 --> 01:38:31,672
RYACK: Those collars
were years in development for me.

1767
01:38:31,839 --> 01:38:32,840
(LAUGHS)

1768
01:38:35,509 --> 01:38:37,594
l started figuring out those collars

1769
01:38:37,678 --> 01:38:40,931
because there are very few prototypes
that really exist.

1770
01:38:41,014 --> 01:38:44,935
When I was doing A Bronx Tale
and Mad Dog and Glory,

1771
01:38:45,018 --> 01:38:48,772
l did a lot of shopping in New York
and the Lower East Side

1772
01:38:48,856 --> 01:38:52,109
and the places that those guys
had actually bought their clothes.

1773
01:38:52,192 --> 01:38:56,280
And it was very hard to find any extant stuff.

1774
01:38:57,156 --> 01:39:01,368
So a lot of that was just, kind of,
adjusting and adjusting

1775
01:39:01,577 --> 01:39:03,662
until everybody was satisfied.

1776
01:39:04,371 --> 01:39:07,708
I have to tell you,
I don't know if they're exactly real.

1777
01:39:07,833 --> 01:39:11,795
What do we call them?
The Lock collar, the Dime Round Point.

1778
01:39:13,714 --> 01:39:16,800
You can't really put a knot,
there's no tie space.

1779
01:39:17,718 --> 01:39:20,804
Man, those collars just went on forever.

1780
01:39:22,139 --> 01:39:25,893
Again, you hit on certain images that are...

1781
01:39:26,685 --> 01:39:30,147
It's intuitive,
and you can feel it when they work.

1782
01:39:30,480 --> 01:39:31,565
ANNQOUNCER: Frank Vincent.

1783
01:39:31,648 --> 01:39:34,318
VINCENT: It was thrilling to wear the clothes
of the period

1784
01:39:34,401 --> 01:39:36,820
because, like I said,
I grew up in that period

1785
01:39:36,904 --> 01:39:39,239
and it brought back a lot of memories.

1786
01:39:39,823 --> 01:39:43,160
And Rita was wonderful. In fact,

1787
01:39:43,911 --> 01:39:46,497
I think we baby-sat for her cat once.

1788
01:39:46,705 --> 01:39:49,416
She had to do something.
I think she had to leave town

1789
01:39:49,541 --> 01:39:51,752
and my wife and I baby-sat for Rita's cat.

1790
01:39:51,835 --> 01:39:53,587
But it was really...

1791
01:39:53,712 --> 01:39:56,089
You put the clothes on,
you felt like the character.

1792
01:39:56,215 --> 01:40:00,427
I put sideburns on,
they dyed my hair for the time changes.

1793
01:40:02,262 --> 01:40:04,932
Sometimes the costume
does the work for you.

1794
01:40:06,099 --> 01:40:08,018
NICKY: I got the latest
anti-bugging equipment

1795
01:40:08,101 --> 01:40:10,521
from the same places that sell to the CIA.

1796
01:40:10,604 --> 01:40:15,859
I had all the special police frequency radios,
FBI de-scramblers, night-vision cameras...

1797
01:40:16,443 --> 01:40:21,615
So, the miserable sons of bitches never
caught me doing anything I couldn't handle.

1798
01:40:21,949 --> 01:40:25,452
SAM: I got my job on the line,
and he's out having the time of his life.

1799
01:40:25,577 --> 01:40:26,703
ANNOUNCER: Rita Ryack.

1800
01:40:26,787 --> 01:40:30,374
RYACK: Putting Bob in pink
was just so delicious.

1801
01:40:30,457 --> 01:40:34,920
He's in a pink sweater in the scene
where he's talking to the guys

1802
01:40:37,130 --> 01:40:41,051
and the helicopters are going overhead
over the golf course

1803
01:40:41,134 --> 01:40:43,804
watching Joe Pesci play golf.

1804
01:40:44,388 --> 01:40:47,724
Bob is in a pink bouclé golf sweater there.

1805
01:40:47,808 --> 01:40:52,563
Again, who else could wear
that pink sweater and pink slacks?

1806
01:40:52,813 --> 01:40:55,566
He probably even had pink shoes,
I'm sure he did.

1807
01:40:55,649 --> 01:40:58,986
Then you have to choose the clothing
that will tell the story

1808
01:40:59,111 --> 01:41:01,238
of the film and the characters.

1809
01:41:01,530 --> 01:41:05,742
It was usually the morning ritual
of the watch and the ring.

1810
01:41:05,993 --> 01:41:08,161
Kind of a papal ritual, wasn't it?

1811
01:41:08,328 --> 01:41:13,166
Every morning we'd meet in Bob's trailer
to look at the outfit for the scene

1812
01:41:13,250 --> 01:41:15,335
and decide.

1813
01:41:15,502 --> 01:41:19,256
We had a box of rings and waftches.
And decide

1814
01:41:19,339 --> 01:41:23,176
which was the most appropriate set
for the day.

1815
01:41:24,469 --> 01:41:29,141
I guess each watch and ring,
as every costume, neck tie,

1816
01:41:29,433 --> 01:41:31,602
add a certain semiotic value.

1817
01:41:31,685 --> 01:41:33,770
There would be some discussion
in the morning.

1818
01:41:33,854 --> 01:41:37,357
Should it coordinate with the ouffit,
and what is it we want to say?

1819
01:41:37,482 --> 01:41:40,319
How much are we gonna see the hand
and the wrist?

1820
01:41:40,527 --> 01:41:43,030
And we'd make the choice.

1821
01:41:45,449 --> 01:41:48,201
$100, whoever hits the plane.

1822
01:41:50,370 --> 01:41:54,791
SAM: If things weren't bad enough, in comes
Piscano, the Kansas City underboss.

1823
01:41:54,875 --> 01:41:57,628
He ran the grocery store in Kansas City...

1824
01:41:57,711 --> 01:41:59,046
ANNOUNCER: Thelma Schoonmaker.

1825
01:41:59,171 --> 01:42:03,633
SCHOONMAKER: Katie Scorsese, Marty's
mother, was a great addition to the film.

1826
01:42:03,717 --> 01:42:07,220
And as usual, as in King of Comedy

1827
01:42:08,221 --> 01:42:12,225
and his other films,
sometimes he just puts her into a scene,

1828
01:42:12,309 --> 01:42:15,812
doesn't really tell her much what it's about,
and just says to her,

1829
01:42:15,896 --> 01:42:19,649
"Just react to it," as he did in Goodfellas
with the famous scene

1830
01:42:19,733 --> 01:42:21,568
where she's cooking food for them

1831
01:42:21,693 --> 01:42:23,904
when they have a corpse
in the trunk of the car.

1832
01:42:23,987 --> 01:42:27,324
Here he had Vinny Vella, a wonderful actor

1833
01:42:27,407 --> 01:42:31,161
who was ranting,
and using a lot of swear words.

1834
01:42:31,244 --> 01:42:36,416
Katie was naturally upset
by the use of swearing. She didn't like it.

1835
01:42:37,209 --> 01:42:41,588
So he just said to her, "Just react to him."
And the way she does it,

1836
01:42:41,713 --> 01:42:45,842
you couldn't write such a thing,
you couldn't dream up such a thing.

1837
01:42:45,926 --> 01:42:49,930
It's so natural. And the wonderful thing
in the outtakes is that

1838
01:42:50,263 --> 01:42:53,517
Marty, when he was directing her,
would say, "Okay, Mom,

1839
01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:57,771
"just react again to him when he says
that bad word." And she said,

1840
01:42:57,854 --> 01:43:01,775
“I am. I keep doing it
and he keeps saying it."

1841
01:43:02,442 --> 01:43:06,613
She really was in the scene, in other words.
She was living in it.

1842
01:43:06,697 --> 01:43:11,118
She didn't think of herself as an actress,
and that the actor she was working with

1843
01:43:11,201 --> 01:43:14,121
was doing lines or anything.

1844
01:43:14,204 --> 01:43:18,792
For her, she was really reacting to him.
And so it was a great deal of fun

1845
01:43:19,084 --> 01:43:23,964
to pick the moments of her despair
with this guy.

1846
01:43:25,298 --> 01:43:29,302
There were so many of them.
We had to narrow it down to the best ones.

1847
01:43:29,970 --> 01:43:34,725
But I just loved working on that sequence.
And then again, later on

1848
01:43:34,891 --> 01:43:39,646
he said to her, "Just make sure you react
to him when he says the 'F' word."”

1849
01:43:39,771 --> 01:43:42,899
And she said, "Marty, my virgin ears!"

1850
01:43:43,442 --> 01:43:45,736
(LAUGHING)

1851
01:43:46,319 --> 01:43:48,989
She was just a natural, she's perfect.

1852
01:43:49,740 --> 01:43:51,074
ANNQUNCER: Barbara De Fina.

1853
01:43:51,158 --> 01:43:53,493
DE FINA: Length is always an issue.

1854
01:43:53,785 --> 01:43:57,122
The one big issue.
If you get past a certain length

1855
01:43:57,497 --> 01:44:00,000
the exhibitor loses a show.

1856
01:44:01,001 --> 01:44:02,502
So to deliver a movie...

1857
01:44:02,627 --> 01:44:04,963
l can't remember
exactly what the number is

1858
01:44:05,172 --> 01:44:07,174
but the exhibitors get very upset.

1859
01:44:07,257 --> 01:44:12,179
Because instead of having three or four
shows a night, they'll have two.

1860
01:44:12,929 --> 01:44:17,184
And that's a major problem
for a lot of exhibitors.

1861
01:44:17,851 --> 01:44:20,479
So that there's always the extreme...

1862
01:44:22,147 --> 01:44:23,940
So that length is always an issue.

1863
01:44:24,024 --> 01:44:27,694
And the studios also like to have a movie

1864
01:44:27,986 --> 01:44:30,530
that they feel is the right length...

1865
01:44:31,198 --> 01:44:33,450
We wanna have a movie that...

1866
01:44:33,950 --> 01:44:37,454
It doesn't matter how long it is.
You can't feel that it's long.

1867
01:44:37,537 --> 01:44:41,208
If a movie feels long,
even if it's two hours and 10 minutes,

1868
01:44:41,374 --> 01:44:42,793
then it really is too long.

1869
01:44:42,876 --> 01:44:46,713
But another movie can be
two-and-a-half hours, and it'll play fine.

1870
01:44:47,339 --> 01:44:49,382
There's always an issue with length.

1871
01:44:49,508 --> 01:44:51,885
Part of it has to do with the economics

1872
01:44:51,968 --> 01:44:56,348
and a lot of it just has to do
with having a movie that works

1873
01:44:57,140 --> 01:45:01,228
that leaves the audience satisfied
but not looking at their watches.

1874
01:45:02,354 --> 01:45:04,731
I don't comp you
at least three times a month?

1875
01:45:04,815 --> 01:45:06,066
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

1876
01:45:06,149 --> 01:45:10,529
STONE: I often sat with Marty,
and would watch him watching takes.

1877
01:45:11,071 --> 01:45:13,573
And I'd be like,
"What are you looking for, Marty?"

1878
01:45:13,657 --> 01:45:16,743
And he'd say,
“I'm just looking for all the elements.”

1879
01:45:17,327 --> 01:45:19,704
And I would sit and watch and watch

1880
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:23,750
to see if I could pick which take
had all the elements.

1881
01:45:24,376 --> 01:45:29,422
To start to try to understand
what was the Scorsese thing.

1882
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:32,926
'Cause it isn't the perfect take
that Marty looks for.

1883
01:45:33,218 --> 01:45:37,722
The perfect take
is almost never the Marty take,

1884
01:45:38,598 --> 01:45:39,933
you know?

1885
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:44,855
It's that thing about how the flaw lends
the beauty and attraction in a person.

1886
01:45:44,938 --> 01:45:48,608
When we look at a person,
we don't look at the person and think,

1887
01:45:48,692 --> 01:45:51,278
"It's that beautiful, perfect person.”

1888
01:45:51,695 --> 01:45:53,947
You know how you always think,

1889
01:45:54,030 --> 01:45:57,617
"It's that little chip in their tooth,
that's why I love them.

1890
01:45:58,285 --> 01:46:02,622
“It's that way they do
that funny thing,” you know.

1891
01:46:03,415 --> 01:46:06,793
Marty really gets that
when you waftch a scene.

1892
01:46:06,876 --> 01:46:08,878
It's that thing.

1893
01:46:09,921 --> 01:46:12,591
And he knows when a scene

1894
01:46:13,300 --> 01:46:15,802
has that chip in its tooth

1895
01:46:16,428 --> 01:46:19,472
or when it has that funny thing.
He gets that.

1896
01:46:20,599 --> 01:46:22,726
It's uncanny.

1897
01:46:25,937 --> 01:46:28,732
You know, Marty's movies are so powerful.

1898
01:46:33,153 --> 01:46:36,448
We have a saying in my company
where we say,

1899
01:46:36,698 --> 01:46:38,450
"It's big-girl time now."

1900
01:46:41,578 --> 01:46:46,499
When you see a Marty movie,
it's always big-boy and big-girl time.

1901
01:46:47,083 --> 01:46:51,254
It's not, "Oh, nice picture.”

1902
01:46:52,047 --> 01:46:56,051
"Gosh, what a moving picture.
Wasn't that great?”

1903
01:46:57,469 --> 01:46:59,429
When you see a Marty movie,

1904
01:47:00,430 --> 01:47:03,642
it's an epic experience.

1905
01:47:05,268 --> 01:47:10,315
It's a completely engaging,
rip-your-heart-out,

1906
01:47:11,024 --> 01:47:13,526
completely open your head.

1907
01:47:14,861 --> 01:47:18,865
We had a guy
out of a witness protection program

1908
01:47:18,949 --> 01:47:23,328
come and show us how to kill people,
who actually knew how you Kkill people.

1909
01:47:23,411 --> 01:47:27,540
This is how people really get killed.
It's not some joke.

1910
01:47:27,624 --> 01:47:32,671
This is how, in real serious business,
people actually get killed.

1911
01:47:34,714 --> 01:47:37,384
That's horrifying to see!

1912
01:47:37,592 --> 01:47:39,719
And you know what? It should be.

1913
01:47:40,387 --> 01:47:42,722
It should be. It shouldn't be a joke.

1914
01:47:43,765 --> 01:47:45,934
It's not a joke to kill somebody.

1915
01:47:46,101 --> 01:47:49,062
It's a horrifying, violent,

1916
01:47:49,604 --> 01:47:53,483
disgusting, awful thing, and it should be.

1917
01:47:53,692 --> 01:47:55,318
It shouldn't be like boom, boom, boom.

1918
01:47:55,902 --> 01:47:56,903
Wow!

1919
01:47:58,113 --> 01:47:59,280
It should be...

1920
01:47:59,364 --> 01:48:00,365
(GROANS)

1921
01:48:00,490 --> 01:48:03,827
You shouldn't wanna go do it.
It shouldn't be thrilling.

1922
01:48:03,993 --> 01:48:05,662
It should be horrifying.

1923
01:48:06,371 --> 01:48:08,498
And because it is,

1924
01:48:09,666 --> 01:48:11,876
you can't get with it.

1925
01:48:12,836 --> 01:48:16,506
And so you don't get with it
in a Marty movie.

1926
01:48:17,590 --> 01:48:19,008
They're great.

1927
01:48:19,801 --> 01:48:24,014
And when people fight
and they tear out their heart,

1928
01:48:25,223 --> 01:48:26,933
it tears out your heart.

1929
01:48:27,517 --> 01:48:31,646
And when people feel things,
or they laugh,

1930
01:48:32,188 --> 01:48:35,066
or they cry, or they're moved, they really are.

1931
01:48:35,692 --> 01:48:38,111
So you are having these experiences

1932
01:48:38,403 --> 01:48:42,282
that touch the real truth inside.

1933
01:48:42,991 --> 01:48:44,701
And, you know, people...

1934
01:48:45,493 --> 01:48:48,580
So many people live arrangements,

1935
01:48:49,456 --> 01:48:51,166
not even relationships.

1936
01:48:51,875 --> 01:48:54,919
How many people get married
and have an arrangement?

1937
01:48:55,712 --> 01:48:59,591
Not a lot of people have the guts
to have a real relationship with anybody.

1938
01:48:59,674 --> 01:49:02,802
You go to a Marty movie,
you're having a relationship.

1939
01:49:03,011 --> 01:49:04,345
ANNOUNCER: Rita Ryack.

1940
01:49:04,429 --> 01:49:06,848
RYACK: We looked at his
old television shows.

1941
01:49:07,223 --> 01:49:10,226
We had some very interesting
costume choices for those, too.

1942
01:49:10,310 --> 01:49:13,521
I think we found some wool
with glitter woven into it.

1943
01:49:14,147 --> 01:49:17,817
I don't know how well it read onscreen
but there was one

1944
01:49:18,234 --> 01:49:22,572
with a black suit with purple glitter
that Bob wears with a purple tie

1945
01:49:23,114 --> 01:49:26,993
with the orchid tie... We had colors.

1946
01:49:27,076 --> 01:49:30,038
We created our own names
for a lot of the colors,

1947
01:49:30,705 --> 01:49:32,957
for quick, shortcut communication.

1948
01:49:33,041 --> 01:49:36,711
And he had a navy suit
with glitter in it, as well.

1949
01:49:38,254 --> 01:49:39,297
ANNQOUNCER: Frank Vincent.

1950
01:49:39,380 --> 01:49:41,549
VINCENT: All the mob guys
l ever met in my life,

1951
01:49:41,633 --> 01:49:44,385
all dressed with exquisite clothing

1952
01:49:45,345 --> 01:49:48,681
and malching watches and designer clothes.

1953
01:49:48,765 --> 01:49:51,684
That's their style,
they had the money to do that.

1954
01:49:52,393 --> 01:49:56,439
If you look back historically
to the gangsters, they all...

1955
01:49:56,606 --> 01:49:59,484
You know, you go back to the '30s
and the Al Capones,

1956
01:49:59,567 --> 01:50:02,654
they all wore... I think it's a status thing.

1957
01:50:03,112 --> 01:50:07,492
It's the same thing today
that the inner city kids have,

1958
01:50:07,575 --> 01:50:11,788
the rappers, that they wear
the $60,000, $70,000 waftches,

1959
01:50:11,871 --> 01:50:13,706
they drive the big cars.

1960
01:50:14,541 --> 01:50:16,584
They look like they are not dressed up

1961
01:50:16,668 --> 01:50:19,838
but they are dressed up
in expensive clothing.

1962
01:50:19,921 --> 01:50:23,633
And I think it's a status symbol,
with the big things around their neck

1963
01:50:23,716 --> 01:50:26,052
because I am who I am.

1964
01:50:26,886 --> 01:50:30,515
I guess they show off.
The mob guys all did that.

1965
01:50:31,015 --> 01:50:32,600
I would just get out.

1966
01:50:34,769 --> 01:50:35,770
(SIGHS)

1967
01:50:36,938 --> 01:50:38,356
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

1968
01:50:38,731 --> 01:50:42,026
PILEGGI: I was staying at the Sands Hotel

1969
01:50:42,110 --> 01:50:46,072
and I got a call saying Joe was coming
to the Sands, he wanted to see me.

1970
01:50:46,155 --> 01:50:48,992
I said, "Fine."
I was waiting, he knew where I was.

1971
01:50:49,075 --> 01:50:52,328
There's a knock at the door,
I open it, and it wasn't Joe.

1972
01:50:52,412 --> 01:50:55,039
But it was Nicky Santoro.

1973
01:50:55,206 --> 01:50:59,377
The real guy,
who I'd seen, I had pictures of him.

1974
01:50:59,460 --> 01:51:01,713
He had the little moustache, everything:

1975
01:51:01,796 --> 01:51:05,049
the hair, the dress, the style, the swagger.

1976
01:51:05,133 --> 01:51:09,012
'Cause, you know,
Santoro had been photographed for years,

1977
01:51:09,095 --> 01:51:11,639
not only in surveillance pictures,
but in newsreels

1978
01:51:11,723 --> 01:51:14,684
because he had wandered around,
and he'd go into the court

1979
01:51:14,767 --> 01:51:18,688
with his lawyer, who is now
the Mayor of Las Vegas, Oscar Goodman,

1980
01:51:18,855 --> 01:51:22,942
who was unbelievably helpful in the movie
and a terrific man.

1981
01:51:25,612 --> 01:51:28,531
There he was, in my doorway.

1982
01:51:28,615 --> 01:51:31,326
There was Nicky Santoro who,
at that point

1983
01:51:31,409 --> 01:51:35,330
was the most terrifying person in Las Vegas.
Everyone was afraid of him.

1984
01:51:35,413 --> 01:51:39,709
And he had come in.
Pit bosses and guys would look up

1985
01:51:39,792 --> 01:51:41,461
'cause everybody knew he was dead

1986
01:51:41,544 --> 01:51:43,880
but you're never quite sure with those guys.

1987
01:51:43,963 --> 01:51:48,384
And they saw Joe dressed like him,
looking like him, made-up like him.

1988
01:51:48,468 --> 01:51:52,263
There were guys that almost fainted
behind the gambling pits

1989
01:51:52,347 --> 01:51:55,767
thinking that he'd come back.
Later everyone knew it was Joe Pesci.

1990
01:51:55,850 --> 01:51:58,019
It's brilliant makeup.

1991
01:51:58,353 --> 01:51:59,687
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

1992
01:52:00,271 --> 01:52:03,691
SCORSESE: I was told by certain
people at that time

1993
01:52:03,942 --> 01:52:05,610
who had been in that gang,

1994
01:52:05,693 --> 01:52:09,280
who turned state's evidence and were
around, these technical advisors said,

1995
01:52:09,364 --> 01:52:10,949
"The desert's a wonderful place.

1996
01:52:11,032 --> 01:52:13,660
"You put something there,
and overnight it disappears.

1997
01:52:13,743 --> 01:52:16,621
"Then nobody will know."

1998
01:52:17,330 --> 01:52:18,623
So he's looking at that.

1999
01:52:18,706 --> 01:52:21,960
That is why the shot sort of moves...
The humor of it, we thought,

2000
01:52:22,043 --> 01:52:23,419
but also the humor

2001
01:52:23,503 --> 01:52:28,508
of these two, sort of, the almost traditional
American cowboy, out-of-control outlaws,

2002
01:52:29,008 --> 01:52:31,427
only in silk suits and sunglasses

2003
01:52:31,511 --> 01:52:32,512
(CHUCKLES)

2004
01:52:32,595 --> 01:52:34,347
in the middle of nowhere.

2005
01:52:36,516 --> 01:52:39,143
By that point,
Ace Rothstein can't say a word

2006
01:52:39,227 --> 01:52:41,646
to Nicky Santoro. He's got to take it.

2007
01:52:41,729 --> 01:52:43,189
He's got to take it

2008
01:52:43,272 --> 01:52:46,275
because he knows
he's going to wind up right in that hole.

2009
01:52:55,159 --> 01:52:56,369
ANNOUNCER: Rita Ryack.

2010
01:52:56,452 --> 01:52:59,622
RYACK: The first time I see a movie,
I only look at the clothes.

2011
01:52:59,706 --> 01:53:04,544
I always have to see the movie
at least three times: once for the clothes,

2012
01:53:04,627 --> 01:53:07,463
and once for the plot,

2013
01:53:07,547 --> 01:53:11,801
and then once to just give up
my involvement with it and enjoy it.

2014
01:53:11,884 --> 01:53:14,679
I have seen it so many times now. I love it.

2015
01:53:14,762 --> 01:53:17,807
And every time I see it, it's richer and richer.

2016
01:53:18,266 --> 01:53:21,102
I can really isolate every scene.

2017
01:53:22,311 --> 01:53:23,980
There is just so much to waftch.

2018
01:53:24,063 --> 01:53:28,317
Bob's performance is so nuanced,
it's just magnificent.

2019
01:53:29,068 --> 01:53:30,528
ANNOUNCER: Thelma Schoonmaker.

2020
01:53:30,611 --> 01:53:35,616
SCHOONMAKER: I think once Scorsese got
a feeling for how good

2021
01:53:36,576 --> 01:53:37,910
the improvisation would be

2022
01:53:37,994 --> 01:53:41,164
between Joe Pesci and De Niro
in Raging Bull,

2023
01:53:41,247 --> 01:53:43,249
he then wanted to mine that vein

2024
01:53:43,333 --> 01:53:45,752
in any movie they were in together.

2025
01:53:45,835 --> 01:53:48,838
So he did it in Goodfellas,
and particularly here in Casino.

2026
01:53:48,921 --> 01:53:51,132
There is a lot of improvisation in Casino.

2027
01:53:51,215 --> 01:53:55,386
Some of the films we made recently
have hardly any improvisation in them.

2028
01:53:55,470 --> 01:53:59,349
But that film was filled with them
and scenes, for example,

2029
01:53:59,599 --> 01:54:03,561
where Pesci comes out to the desert
and attacks De Niro

2030
01:54:03,644 --> 01:54:06,689
are wonderful improvisations.

2031
01:54:07,023 --> 01:54:10,777
And again, there it's a matter
of getting the rhythm to work right.

2032
01:54:11,069 --> 01:54:14,364
And to get
the dramatic information across

2033
01:54:14,447 --> 01:54:19,118
but to get the rhythm of both of the actors
working together as well as you can.

2034
01:54:19,744 --> 01:54:22,705
The body language and the way Joe Pesci...

2035
01:54:23,790 --> 01:54:27,877
The way he speaks, it's almost as if
every part of his body moves when he...

2036
01:54:27,960 --> 01:54:28,961
(LAUGHS)

2037
01:54:29,045 --> 01:54:31,631
Because he's expressing himself
so vehemently.

2038
01:54:31,714 --> 01:54:34,383
It's wonderful. And Bob, very impassive,

2039
01:54:34,467 --> 01:54:38,846
wearing sunglasses very similar
to Lew Wasserman's sunglasses,

2040
01:54:39,055 --> 01:54:40,890
the famous Hollywood character.

2041
01:54:40,973 --> 01:54:45,394
And I remember seeing Bob
choosing those glasses with Marty.

2042
01:54:45,603 --> 01:54:47,939
I was there in the room
when they were doing it.

2043
01:54:48,022 --> 01:54:51,317
It was wonderful to watch
how the decision finally veered towards

2044
01:54:51,401 --> 01:54:53,986
the Lew Wasserman glasses.

2045
01:54:54,362 --> 01:54:57,657
He's just hardly moving at all,
and then standing there

2046
01:54:57,740 --> 01:55:02,829
when Pesci peels away in the car
and the dust envelops him.

2047
01:55:02,912 --> 01:55:06,457
Just something about Bob's body language
IS so incredible

2048
01:55:06,541 --> 01:55:10,169
what it's signaling in that wide shot.
It's just great.

2049
01:55:19,345 --> 01:55:20,638
ANNOUNCER: Rita Ryack.

2050
01:55:20,721 --> 01:55:24,392
RYACK: All of the extras, of course,
were pre-fit and we had our crew.

2051
01:55:24,475 --> 01:55:27,520
We pulled a huge stock for the extras

2052
01:55:27,603 --> 01:55:31,190
and everything was committed
to different scenes.

2053
01:55:31,274 --> 01:55:34,360
We had a lot of fittings,
and the extras were local people

2054
01:55:34,444 --> 01:55:36,612
who really, in New York and Los Angeles,

2055
01:55:36,696 --> 01:55:39,240
you do work
with a lot of professional extras.

2056
01:55:39,323 --> 01:55:44,328
Although real people certainly have

2057
01:55:44,871 --> 01:55:47,915
a vitality that the professional extras don't.

2058
01:55:48,207 --> 01:55:51,335
But they really didn't understand
the costume process.

2059
01:55:51,419 --> 01:55:54,422
There was a letter
in the local paper that said,

2060
01:55:55,089 --> 01:55:57,633
"This production, I went in to be an extra.

2061
01:55:57,717 --> 01:56:00,219
"All they do
is put us in these horrible clothes

2062
01:56:00,303 --> 01:56:02,597
"and tell us we look fabulous."

2063
01:56:02,680 --> 01:56:04,891
(LAUGHING)

2064
01:56:04,974 --> 01:56:08,603
And I got into a lot of trouble
with Barbara De Fina for that.

2065
01:56:08,728 --> 01:56:11,522
But that's right, we do.
We put them in horrible clothes

2066
01:56:11,647 --> 01:56:15,651
and tell them they look fabulous
because they do look fabulous for this film.

2067
01:56:15,735 --> 01:56:19,030
I don't expect them to wear those things
in their own lives

2068
01:56:19,113 --> 01:56:20,281
but it's a period film

2069
01:56:20,364 --> 01:56:24,660
and these are the clothes that they would
have worn at the time in this situation.

2070
01:56:25,495 --> 01:56:26,537
Yeah?

2071
01:56:26,787 --> 01:56:28,372
- Sam, we got a problem.
- What is it?

2072
01:56:28,456 --> 01:56:32,335
BILLY: The little guy. Nobody told him
he was eighty-sixed from the joint.

2073
01:56:32,418 --> 01:56:35,671
We turned our heads and made out
like we didn't know who he was.

2074
01:56:35,755 --> 01:56:39,509
He's over at the 21 table
with his nose wide open.

2075
01:56:39,842 --> 01:56:43,804
He took money out of his own kick.
His nose is open for about $10,000.

2076
01:56:44,138 --> 01:56:45,848
Now he's really pissed.

2077
01:56:46,974 --> 01:56:50,394
- He wants a $50,000 marker.
- Just give him $10,000.

2078
01:56:50,561 --> 01:56:51,979
That's it. I'll be right down.

2079
01:56:52,063 --> 01:56:54,565
He's gonna come up with $10,000
just the way you want.

2080
01:56:54,649 --> 01:56:56,734
No, I said fucking $50,000!

2081
01:56:56,817 --> 01:56:58,319
ANNOUNCER: Thelma Schoonmaker.

2082
01:56:58,402 --> 01:57:03,032
SCHOONMAKER: All the wonderful,
actual dealers and pit bosses,

2083
01:57:04,492 --> 01:57:05,910
they are so believable.

2084
01:57:05,993 --> 01:57:08,996
Marty believes when he is in
an environment like that

2085
01:57:09,080 --> 01:57:10,873
that you should use the real people:

2086
01:57:10,957 --> 01:57:15,336
real fighters, real pool players,
and in this case real dealers.

2087
01:57:15,419 --> 01:57:19,674
That wonderful guy
that Joe Pesci calls "the beaut.”

2088
01:57:19,757 --> 01:57:22,969
The man who comes over
and takes all the abuse from him

2089
01:57:23,052 --> 01:57:26,806
when he is angry
and about to be thrown out of the casino.

2090
01:57:26,889 --> 01:57:29,809
He was one of our favorites.
l mean, he was just perfect.

2091
01:57:29,892 --> 01:57:31,936
You didn't have to tell him to do anything

2092
01:57:32,019 --> 01:57:33,229
because Marty said

2093
01:57:33,312 --> 01:57:37,483
he had actually encountered the real person
that Joe Pesci was playing once

2094
01:57:37,566 --> 01:57:41,654
in a similar situation,
so he knew how to handle it.

2095
01:57:41,737 --> 01:57:45,449
But they are all so great,
they are so believable right away.

2096
01:57:45,908 --> 01:57:49,578
They seem to not need acting lessons.

2097
01:57:49,662 --> 01:57:51,372
I don't know, they are just themselves.

2098
01:57:51,455 --> 01:57:54,625
I'm sure that's what Marty said,
"Just be yourself,” and they are.

2099
01:57:54,709 --> 01:57:58,462
But it gives a wonderful flavor,
a believability, too.

2100
01:57:59,630 --> 01:58:00,881
ANNQOUNCER: Frank Vincent.

2101
01:58:01,132 --> 01:58:03,676
VINCENT: I had gotten a little cold
or something.

2102
01:58:07,513 --> 01:58:10,099
And we had all our trailers
in the parking lot.

2103
01:58:10,182 --> 01:58:13,728
They would take us by van
to the front of the casino.

2104
01:58:13,811 --> 01:58:16,939
So one day, I was walking past
Rickles' trailer.

2105
01:58:17,023 --> 01:58:19,817
He had his door open, he was sitting there.

2106
01:58:19,900 --> 01:58:23,696
I said, "I've been sick, Don.
I have a frigging cold.”

2107
01:58:24,030 --> 01:58:25,948
“Frank, I really don't give a shit,” he says.

2108
01:58:26,032 --> 01:58:27,241
(CHUCKLES)

2109
01:58:28,326 --> 01:58:32,163
But he's really a sweetheart,
and when we had to do this scene

2110
01:58:32,246 --> 01:58:36,250
where we beat him up in the casino,
where Joe hit him with the phone

2111
01:58:36,334 --> 01:58:38,044
he had everybody crazy.

2112
01:58:38,210 --> 01:58:42,631
“Italians beating up the Jew,
I'm calling my lawyer,” he's going.

2113
01:58:43,507 --> 01:58:45,718
He had them crazy, he was just nuts.

2114
01:58:46,594 --> 01:58:47,845
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

2115
01:58:48,846 --> 01:58:52,141
STONE: These men in this picture
are giant talents.

2116
01:58:54,685 --> 01:58:57,438
It was fantastic for me
to have the opportunity

2117
01:58:57,521 --> 01:59:00,649
that this character
gets to have this dynamic

2118
01:59:00,733 --> 01:59:03,611
with all these people, and that they are all

2119
01:59:03,694 --> 01:59:08,657
extraordinarily different
kinds of technicians in their work

2120
01:59:09,325 --> 01:59:11,035
but they are all...

2121
01:59:11,118 --> 01:59:13,913
They all have great bravura in their work.

2122
01:59:14,705 --> 01:59:17,375
They are all super-generous actors

2123
01:59:19,001 --> 01:59:22,088
but they are all very much their own men.

2124
01:59:25,132 --> 01:59:26,759
You know, [ love that.

2125
01:59:27,259 --> 01:59:31,681
I just love that,
I love working with the big tigers.

2126
01:59:32,056 --> 01:59:35,643
You know, I love working with these men

2127
01:59:35,726 --> 01:59:39,146
who are fearless

2128
01:59:42,525 --> 01:59:45,444
and they don't have a problem

2129
01:59:52,118 --> 01:59:54,829
when you're present in the moment

2130
01:59:54,954 --> 01:59:59,542
and different and aclive.

2131
02:00:02,503 --> 02:00:07,591
And you have that awareness
that each second

2132
02:00:07,675 --> 02:00:12,138
is a new and alive and daring adventure.

2133
02:00:13,139 --> 02:00:16,058
And they are all like that, they are all just

2134
02:00:17,017 --> 02:00:19,395
off the hook, with the new...

2135
02:00:20,020 --> 02:00:23,357
You never know what they
are going to do in any given second.

2136
02:00:23,482 --> 02:00:27,027
And they are thrilled
when you are just unpredictable.

2137
02:00:28,070 --> 02:00:30,823
And Ginger was a pony on linoleum.

2138
02:00:30,990 --> 02:00:34,326
I mean, she was just
Skidding around and just...

2139
02:00:35,161 --> 02:00:39,874
Every second, and they all three
were just so embracive of that.

2140
02:00:40,833 --> 02:00:44,003
And that's very rare.

2141
02:00:47,506 --> 02:00:50,009
(TELEPHONE RINGING)

2142
02:00:50,092 --> 02:00:51,177
Hello.

2143
02:00:51,677 --> 02:00:54,889
My wife is with an old friend of hers in L.A.

2144
02:00:55,014 --> 02:00:57,433
Some lowlife named Lester Diamond.

2145
02:00:57,516 --> 02:01:00,478
My daughter's with them.
They're gonna try and kidnap her.

2146
02:01:00,561 --> 02:01:03,731
- Is there anybody you can send?
- We'll take care of it.

2147
02:01:07,276 --> 02:01:08,527
(DOORBELL RINGS)

2148
02:01:09,445 --> 02:01:11,113
We got a number and an address.

2149
02:01:11,197 --> 02:01:14,700
Hello. Is this Lester?

2150
02:01:16,035 --> 02:01:17,203
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

2151
02:01:17,286 --> 02:01:19,747
STONE: Lester is really Ginger's heart.

2152
02:01:20,247 --> 02:01:21,916
Lester is her true love.

2153
02:01:22,625 --> 02:01:24,418
He's the love of her life.

2154
02:01:25,377 --> 02:01:29,256
He's just the reason her heart beats

2155
02:01:30,132 --> 02:01:33,803
and has been since she was young

2156
02:01:34,553 --> 02:01:38,390
and he gets that about her.

2157
02:01:39,475 --> 02:01:44,563
And whether or not he cares about
her back is something that I don't know.

2158
02:01:45,481 --> 02:01:48,734
There isn't anything
that she wouldn't do for him.

2159
02:01:48,943 --> 02:01:51,654
And she just turns herself
inside-out for him.

2160
02:01:52,321 --> 02:01:54,824
And she's...

2161
02:01:54,990 --> 02:01:57,326
In that way,

2162
02:01:58,244 --> 02:02:02,623
that a man can just own a woman,
he owns her.

2163
02:02:05,292 --> 02:02:08,337
You know, I have done
a couple of films with Jimmy

2164
02:02:08,420 --> 02:02:12,466
and he's one of my dearest friends
and compatriots.

2165
02:02:12,591 --> 02:02:16,095
And he's directed me now.

2166
02:02:17,972 --> 02:02:20,808
He's one of the smartest people
l have ever met

2167
02:02:20,933 --> 02:02:25,020
and deepest and most soulful people
l have ever met.

2168
02:02:25,354 --> 02:02:29,942
And he has a fearless energy.

2169
02:02:30,776 --> 02:02:33,237
He's on it.

2170
02:02:33,320 --> 02:02:37,449
He's one of the best improvisational actors
there is.

2171
02:02:40,953 --> 02:02:42,454
And he's witty

2172
02:02:43,539 --> 02:02:47,334
and he knows whether it's supposed
to be funny or hostile

2173
02:02:48,335 --> 02:02:51,171
Just tonally on the second.

2174
02:02:53,841 --> 02:02:56,468
He's just a great talent

2175
02:02:57,011 --> 02:03:01,640
but we have such a fun relationship
and such a witty relationship.

2176
02:03:02,349 --> 02:03:06,520
And with him, I love the dynamic
of getting the little girl

2177
02:03:06,645 --> 02:03:09,189
who played my daughter
to just torment him.

2178
02:03:09,481 --> 02:03:13,527
So between takes, I would say,
"Go hit him with your purse.

2179
02:03:13,986 --> 02:03:16,155
"And hit him in the balls,

2180
02:03:16,238 --> 02:03:19,742
"just hit him in the crotch
with your purse during the scene.

2181
02:03:19,825 --> 02:03:23,329
Or, "Whatever he says to you,
Just ignore him.

2182
02:03:24,079 --> 02:03:28,167
*Just go 'Nah, nah, nah'
through the whole take."

2183
02:03:28,334 --> 02:03:31,503
Or I would set her up to do things

2184
02:03:31,670 --> 02:03:33,547
to just make his life hell.

2185
02:03:33,672 --> 02:03:36,634
So I could pretend
that I was interested in him

2186
02:03:36,717 --> 02:03:40,179
and it wasn't my fault
that she was torturing him.

2187
02:03:41,180 --> 02:03:43,432
So I got her to bug him

2188
02:03:43,682 --> 02:03:47,061
lo creale that friction in the room.

2189
02:03:47,394 --> 02:03:51,023
And Marty doesn't cut
for physical continuity.

2190
02:03:51,440 --> 02:03:54,360
He cuts his films for emotional continuity.

2191
02:03:55,444 --> 02:03:58,614
What a gift to a bunch of us, the hoodlums.

2192
02:03:59,406 --> 02:04:03,452
Because we don't have to follow
that kind of

2193
02:04:05,537 --> 02:04:09,083
structure with Marty.

2194
02:04:09,208 --> 02:04:12,419
And when you start to get square,

2195
02:04:12,544 --> 02:04:15,547
Marty will stop the show,

2196
02:04:15,964 --> 02:04:19,218
come up to you
and tell you some story about his life.

2197
02:04:19,802 --> 02:04:21,303
Some kooky story.

2198
02:04:21,720 --> 02:04:25,099
Like, he will say, "I did this."”

2199
02:04:25,891 --> 02:04:30,229
And he will tell you some crazy story
about his life.

2200
02:04:31,647 --> 02:04:34,566
And in the beginning when he did it,
l thought...

2201
02:04:35,901 --> 02:04:39,238
And then you see he's trying to say,

2202
02:04:39,905 --> 02:04:42,950
"Man, I've been there, I've seen it

2203
02:04:43,409 --> 02:04:46,954
“there's nothing you can say or do
that is going to scare me.

2204
02:04:47,287 --> 02:04:48,747
“Listen up.”

2205
02:04:48,956 --> 02:04:50,958
And no matter where you are...

2206
02:04:51,250 --> 02:04:52,751
There was a scene

2207
02:04:53,961 --> 02:04:57,339
where we quickly were trying
fo get scenes where...

2208
02:04:57,423 --> 02:05:01,552
And there is a scene
where I am kneeling by a little,

2209
02:05:01,635 --> 02:05:03,971
like a tufted,

2210
02:05:04,638 --> 02:05:08,434
like a seltee cushion in the bedroom.

2211
02:05:08,851 --> 02:05:11,770
And I'm kneeling, and I'm crying

2212
02:05:11,854 --> 02:05:14,314
and Bob's yelling at me or something.

2213
02:05:15,357 --> 02:05:18,110
And I'm trying to express this thing

2214
02:05:18,193 --> 02:05:22,239
and I went up to Marty before the take
and I wanted to tell him something.

2215
02:05:22,322 --> 02:05:26,577
I was so upset and disturbed with the scene
that I couldn't really talk.

2216
02:05:26,660 --> 02:05:29,788
(WHIMPERING) I was, like, "Marty, I just..."”

2217
02:05:32,458 --> 02:05:35,127
And he just looks at me
and he goes, "I know."

2218
02:05:36,295 --> 02:05:39,298
And I'm sobbing and I couldn't speak.

2219
02:05:39,882 --> 02:05:43,135
I so needed to get this thing
through to him, I'm like...

2220
02:05:43,218 --> 02:05:46,472
(BABBLING)

2221
02:05:46,555 --> 02:05:49,266
And he just grabbed me. He's like, "I know.

2222
02:05:49,808 --> 02:05:51,935
"Yeah, I got it.

2223
02:05:52,478 --> 02:05:54,980
"I get you."” And he just like...

2224
02:05:55,314 --> 02:05:59,735
And he did get
whatever the hell I was trying to...

2225
02:05:59,818 --> 02:06:02,654
"I got you. That's it. Right.”

2226
02:06:03,363 --> 02:06:06,658
And he really made that contact with me,

2227
02:06:07,493 --> 02:06:10,120
got it. I couldn't have said, "Boo."

2228
02:06:10,954 --> 02:06:13,165
l went back, I did my scene.

2229
02:06:13,373 --> 02:06:17,544
Whatever the hell was going on with me,
he'll hang with you.

2230
02:06:17,669 --> 02:06:21,131
I was in a phone booth at one point

2231
02:06:21,840 --> 02:06:24,343
having this kook conversation with Bob.

2232
02:06:25,135 --> 02:06:27,846
And I just said,
"Marty, I can't have you over there.

2233
02:06:27,971 --> 02:06:30,307
"I need you where I can touch you.

2234
02:06:30,390 --> 02:06:32,184
“I'm really scared.”

2235
02:06:32,726 --> 02:06:35,020
Marty sat on the dirt

2236
02:06:35,521 --> 02:06:38,023
by my feet outside the phone booth

2237
02:06:38,732 --> 02:06:42,402
so that I could go to crazyville.

2238
02:06:42,820 --> 02:06:45,656
But so that I could see him and touch him

2239
02:06:46,657 --> 02:06:48,075
because he knew...

2240
02:06:48,867 --> 02:06:52,996
l just said, "I'm going somewhere far away,
I need to make sure I can get back."

2241
02:06:53,080 --> 02:06:55,374
He's like, “I'll get you back, babe."”

2242
02:06:56,083 --> 02:07:00,045
Whatever it takes,
he isn't scared of this thing.

2243
02:07:00,587 --> 02:07:03,549
And so many directors are just scared.

2244
02:07:04,091 --> 02:07:06,677
They're scared that if you, as a woman

2245
02:07:07,052 --> 02:07:09,721
go big, or go wide, or go deep,

2246
02:07:10,514 --> 02:07:13,433
first of all, you're gonna roll over the guys

2247
02:07:13,684 --> 02:07:17,646
and second of all...
I don't know, it's like that expression,

2248
02:07:17,729 --> 02:07:21,567
"If one woman told the truth,
the whole world would crack open.”

2249
02:07:21,692 --> 02:07:23,569
Well, Marty wants your truth.

2250
02:07:24,945 --> 02:07:26,572
SAM: The good part was I had Amy back.

2251
02:07:26,697 --> 02:07:27,865
ANNQUNCER: Barbara De Fina.

2252
02:07:27,948 --> 02:07:30,033
DE FINA: Bob's good with script.

2253
02:07:30,909 --> 02:07:34,913
He's really so intuitive about characters,
especially characters that

2254
02:07:35,539 --> 02:07:37,291
could be very unsympathetic.

2255
02:07:37,583 --> 02:07:38,792
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

2256
02:07:38,917 --> 02:07:40,377
PILEGGI: The original version we wrote

2257
02:07:40,460 --> 02:07:42,880
he asked her about so much money
and that was it.

2258
02:07:42,963 --> 02:07:44,548
Bob said, "No.

2259
02:07:45,215 --> 02:07:48,260
"He's not going to just ask her
once or twice.

2260
02:07:48,552 --> 02:07:50,971
"He's going to stay after her. He'll say,

2261
02:07:51,096 --> 02:07:54,266
-"What'd you do with the money?'
-'I gave him $3,000 for a watch.'

2262
02:07:54,391 --> 02:07:57,561
"'$3,000. Okay, that leaves you $47,000.

2263
02:07:57,644 --> 02:07:59,980
-"What happened to the rest?'
-'Well, I got...'"

2264
02:08:00,105 --> 02:08:04,067
So it was Bob's insight into the character

2265
02:08:04,151 --> 02:08:06,862
that this is an accountant,
this is a gambler,

2266
02:08:06,945 --> 02:08:09,615
this is a guy
who knew the odds to everything.

2267
02:08:10,073 --> 02:08:12,284
He was an odds maker, he set the odds.

2268
02:08:12,409 --> 02:08:17,205
He set the odds for all the football games
played on Sunday for the mob.

2269
02:08:17,289 --> 02:08:18,999
He set the odds for the country.

2270
02:08:19,124 --> 02:08:23,128
He's not going to let somebody
get away with $40,000 this way. No.

2271
02:08:23,629 --> 02:08:27,090
So Bob just kept after Marty and me
in the room.

2272
02:08:27,424 --> 02:08:30,218
“No, then he's going to say this."
So we gave him...

2273
02:08:30,302 --> 02:08:32,679
Then he'd say, "$6,000 for a suit?

2274
02:08:32,804 --> 02:08:36,683
“I've never spent $6,000 for a suit.
How many suits can a guy buy, three?"

2275
02:08:36,808 --> 02:08:41,271
And he would keep after it
and he just exhausted us.

2276
02:08:41,980 --> 02:08:44,650
But that's exactly what he does
in that scene.

2277
02:08:44,983 --> 02:08:47,778
He really loves her,
he doesn't want to chase her away

2278
02:08:47,861 --> 02:08:50,530
but he is compelled to be one way.

2279
02:08:51,156 --> 02:08:53,867
He is programmed, it's in his DNA

2280
02:08:53,992 --> 02:08:57,037
to get it down to the last five cents.

2281
02:08:57,287 --> 02:08:59,289
And it drives everybody nuts

2282
02:08:59,373 --> 02:09:02,251
and chases away
the one person he really loves.

2283
02:09:02,334 --> 02:09:03,752
It's just fascinating.

2284
02:09:03,835 --> 02:09:07,881
But Bob spotted it,
and made the scene much deeper.

2285
02:09:08,465 --> 02:09:09,675
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

2286
02:09:09,800 --> 02:09:14,888
STONE: I think the interesting thing about
the Ginger-Ace relationship was that

2287
02:09:18,183 --> 02:09:20,018
she was so

2288
02:09:21,186 --> 02:09:25,691
in love with the idea that someone
like Ace could be interested in her.

2289
02:09:27,317 --> 02:09:30,862
That someone big and important

2290
02:09:31,697 --> 02:09:33,699
would notice her.

2291
02:09:35,033 --> 02:09:38,161
It made her feel big and important.

2292
02:09:38,912 --> 02:09:43,917
And then I think when he stopped
really paying attention to her,

2293
02:09:44,042 --> 02:09:47,087
she thought that if she acted
like she was big and important

2294
02:09:47,212 --> 02:09:49,381
he would pay attention to her.

2295
02:09:49,881 --> 02:09:53,218
She didn't ever have
a comprehension of love.

2296
02:09:53,927 --> 02:09:56,722
And, of course,
he didn't have a comprehension of love.

2297
02:09:56,847 --> 02:10:01,268
So they never really had
a real coming together in any healthful way.

2298
02:10:01,727 --> 02:10:04,062
They just had this strange,

2299
02:10:05,522 --> 02:10:09,568
broken ego-dynamic where they kept trying
to get each other's attention.

2300
02:10:10,235 --> 02:10:13,530
And when these two broken egos

2301
02:10:13,613 --> 02:10:15,741
started clashing

2302
02:10:18,702 --> 02:10:22,789
and fighting to get each other's attention
from their incredibly

2303
02:10:24,082 --> 02:10:25,876
needy places...

2304
02:10:28,086 --> 02:10:30,005
You know, Bob and I had the best time.

2305
02:10:30,088 --> 02:10:33,008
We thought it was hilarious when we fought.

2306
02:10:33,091 --> 02:10:37,596
We would fight to the death,
but the crew was

2307
02:10:38,472 --> 02:10:39,514
(LAUGHS)

2308
02:10:39,598 --> 02:10:40,932
horrified.

2309
02:10:41,391 --> 02:10:45,270
Marty would let a whole mag roll out
on camera

2310
02:10:45,771 --> 02:10:48,357
and just let us go, let us improv

2311
02:10:48,523 --> 02:10:51,860
and we'd just go for it tooth and nail.

2312
02:10:51,943 --> 02:10:54,112
We'd have these fights,

2313
02:10:54,696 --> 02:10:58,033
verbal, that were just wow

2314
02:10:58,116 --> 02:11:01,703
because we could go.
And physical to the point

2315
02:11:01,787 --> 02:11:04,873
where sometimes he'd drag me
down those hallways.

2316
02:11:04,956 --> 02:11:08,376
That house had marble hallways,
and my legs would just be

2317
02:11:08,460 --> 02:11:12,297
black and blue and green,
because we were just,

2318
02:11:12,798 --> 02:11:14,716
you know, really fighting.

2319
02:11:15,258 --> 02:11:18,720
And the camera would roll out
and you'd hear the film go...

2320
02:11:18,804 --> 02:11:19,888
(MIMICS FILM SPILLING FROM CAMERA)

2321
02:11:19,971 --> 02:11:24,059
And Marty would go, "And that's a cut.”
And you could hear a pin drop.

2322
02:11:26,103 --> 02:11:28,897
Then Bob and I would start screaming
with laughter

2323
02:11:28,980 --> 02:11:32,609
and still no one...
People would be so horrified.

2324
02:11:33,110 --> 02:11:37,989
But you don't very often get to go like that.

2325
02:11:40,826 --> 02:11:43,829
Ginger was a really interesting character

2326
02:11:44,162 --> 02:11:47,499
because, of course, on the surface,
Ginger was a person

2327
02:11:47,624 --> 02:11:49,960
that just slides and "see you."

2328
02:11:50,627 --> 02:11:54,005
And we talked a lot about how

2329
02:11:54,923 --> 02:11:59,177
it's not the fact that she starts out
and she slides into her demise

2330
02:11:59,970 --> 02:12:01,847
that is what's interesting about Ginger.

2331
02:12:01,930 --> 02:12:06,768
What's interesting is though,
apparently, that's what she's doing...

2332
02:12:06,977 --> 02:12:10,856
But the playing of Ginger
is that you don't play that.

2333
02:12:11,356 --> 02:12:15,944
You play that she thinks she's winning
the whole time she's doing it

2334
02:12:16,027 --> 02:12:19,030
and that's what makes Ginger so happening.

2335
02:12:19,489 --> 02:12:22,534
And that's what I really got when I read her.

2336
02:12:22,868 --> 02:12:25,871
But no, to play her, you have to play like,

2337
02:12:25,954 --> 02:12:27,956
what's her hook every time?

2338
02:12:28,206 --> 02:12:31,668
How is she going
to find a new way to win

2339
02:12:31,877 --> 02:12:34,004
in every losing situation?

2340
02:12:34,880 --> 02:12:36,214
ANNQUNCER: Barbara De Fina.

2341
02:12:36,339 --> 02:12:38,133
DE FINA: The movie works
on many different levels

2342
02:12:38,216 --> 02:12:41,469
So that different people can relate to it
in different ways.

2343
02:12:41,553 --> 02:12:44,389
I think Sharon's story and the love story

2344
02:12:44,514 --> 02:12:46,224
is a kind of fractured love story

2345
02:12:46,308 --> 02:12:49,227
but, in a way,
very glamorous and believable

2346
02:12:50,479 --> 02:12:52,314
and has a reality to it.

2347
02:12:53,648 --> 02:12:56,818
I think the American public, especially,

2348
02:12:57,068 --> 02:13:01,656
l guess it was in the '70s, and even
when we made the movie in the '90s

2349
02:13:03,158 --> 02:13:06,912
we were all obsessed with money

2350
02:13:07,037 --> 02:13:09,039
and I think Vegas works on...

2351
02:13:09,206 --> 02:13:11,374
Everybody still wants to go win.

2352
02:13:12,501 --> 02:13:15,921
"Something for nothing" is a big theme.

2353
02:13:16,046 --> 02:13:20,175
Everybody wants to go to Vegas
and put a quarter in a machine and win.

2354
02:13:20,258 --> 02:13:22,427
So I think that's a theme

2355
02:13:22,677 --> 02:13:25,764
that at the end you see is empty.

2356
02:13:26,515 --> 02:13:30,268
And I think it works on the level
of it's just incredibly visual:

2357
02:13:30,602 --> 02:13:32,938
all the clothes, the photography,

2358
02:13:33,063 --> 02:13:36,358
the world, the slot machines, and the lights,
I mean, it's just...

2359
02:13:36,441 --> 02:13:40,737
You can just watch the movie
as a roller coaster ride.

2360
02:13:42,531 --> 02:13:43,698
ANNOUNCER: Rita Ryack.

2361
02:13:43,782 --> 02:13:46,243
RYACK: She cuts her hair and she goes...

2362
02:13:46,451 --> 02:13:48,870
Now this is again pretty subtle

2363
02:13:49,037 --> 02:13:52,749
but she goes from a triangular silhouette

2364
02:13:54,918 --> 02:13:57,796
lo a reverse, an inverted
triangular silhouette

2365
02:13:57,921 --> 02:13:59,965
with stronger shoulders.

2366
02:14:00,632 --> 02:14:02,968
She's declaring her independence

2367
02:14:03,051 --> 02:14:06,763
she goes off with Lester,
and she comes back with a boob job

2368
02:14:07,639 --> 02:14:10,976
and a new strong,
we call it her I-am-woman silhouette.

2369
02:14:11,393 --> 02:14:12,894
And she's cut her hair

2370
02:14:12,978 --> 02:14:18,066
and her clothing is much harder
and stronger from that point.

2371
02:14:19,317 --> 02:14:20,485
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

2372
02:14:20,610 --> 02:14:24,573
STONE: There is no one more exquisite
to work for than Scorsese.

2373
02:14:24,656 --> 02:14:27,158
It just doesn't happen

2374
02:14:27,993 --> 02:14:29,911
because not only will he give you

2375
02:14:29,995 --> 02:14:33,582
every bit of every research
that you could possibly ask for.

2376
02:14:34,082 --> 02:14:36,960
And I'm a research animal.

2377
02:14:37,586 --> 02:14:40,338
He gave me photos,

2378
02:14:42,007 --> 02:14:44,009
everything, pictures,

2379
02:14:45,510 --> 02:14:47,971
anything I wanted that was available.

2380
02:14:48,305 --> 02:14:53,351
To me, it was a treasure trove of goods

2381
02:14:56,354 --> 02:14:58,523
on this woman that I was playing.

2382
02:14:59,482 --> 02:15:03,695
And it was enervating
and exciting and scary.

2383
02:15:04,487 --> 02:15:07,449
But once I began to play her,

2384
02:15:08,616 --> 02:15:10,827
people came out of the woodwork.

2385
02:15:11,036 --> 02:15:15,081
And people started calling me
and saying, “I knew her."

2386
02:15:15,999 --> 02:15:18,168
And I would get calls

2387
02:15:18,835 --> 02:15:21,129
that were real up-front,

2388
02:15:21,212 --> 02:15:24,924
"I'd like to meet you, take you to lunch,"
and I was friends with her.

2389
02:15:25,008 --> 02:15:27,594
And other calls that were very

2390
02:15:29,054 --> 02:15:31,431
low-down, you know.

2391
02:15:31,973 --> 02:15:35,101
“I'll meet you on the corner,
and I'll tell you

2392
02:15:36,102 --> 02:15:37,812
"and you never saw me."

2393
02:15:38,271 --> 02:15:40,774
And people would lay some really

2394
02:15:41,524 --> 02:15:44,527
serious information on me or:

2395
02:15:46,196 --> 02:15:48,698
“I'm just going to tell you these two things."

2396
02:15:48,782 --> 02:15:52,077
And they wouldn't tell me
who they were or what it was.

2397
02:15:52,160 --> 02:15:54,496
Or, "I'm gonna give you this."”

2398
02:15:55,163 --> 02:15:59,250
Or would just walk up to me
and say, "Boom."

2399
02:15:59,959 --> 02:16:03,046
And some of the information
that I got was just invaluable.

2400
02:16:04,714 --> 02:16:09,511
And there were just
a couple of two little pieces

2401
02:16:10,387 --> 02:16:13,890
that just turned it for me on her.

2402
02:16:15,683 --> 02:16:19,104
And some things
that were so the heart of her

2403
02:16:19,646 --> 02:16:21,815
and some things that were so tender

2404
02:16:22,232 --> 02:16:25,819
that I got to know her.

2405
02:16:27,654 --> 02:16:31,032
And eventually,
when you play someone like that,

2406
02:16:31,574 --> 02:16:34,869
you carry them really near and dear to you

2407
02:16:35,245 --> 02:16:39,207
and some of the contacts
and relationships that I had

2408
02:16:39,290 --> 02:16:42,001
became sacred to me

2409
02:16:42,460 --> 02:16:45,588
and will always be sacred to me.

2410
02:16:46,047 --> 02:16:48,258
I felt, at a point

2411
02:16:48,717 --> 02:16:51,594
like I carried her in me.

2412
02:16:52,470 --> 02:16:53,847
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

2413
02:16:53,972 --> 02:16:56,516
PILEGGI: Ginger getting so angry
at her husband

2414
02:16:57,559 --> 02:17:01,438
for all this other stuff,
and getting stoned and getting smashed.

2415
02:17:01,896 --> 02:17:04,649
And so she then starts coming on to Nicky.

2416
02:17:04,774 --> 02:17:08,445
Nicky, because he's so angry at Ace

2417
02:17:08,778 --> 02:17:12,282
is gonna screw his wife
Just to get even at Ace. I don't know.

2418
02:17:12,365 --> 02:17:16,453
That was not a passionate relationship.
That was a get-even relationship.

2419
02:17:16,536 --> 02:17:19,789
At that point in Nicky's career,

2420
02:17:19,873 --> 02:17:23,710
I think Nicky would have loved
to put a bullet right through Ace's head.

2421
02:17:23,793 --> 02:17:26,671
He got so angry at him.
Nicky was that volatile.

2422
02:17:26,755 --> 02:17:30,049
He could've been sorry in the morning,
he'd never tell you.

2423
02:17:30,133 --> 02:17:33,678
But he was so angry.
So the next best thing

2424
02:17:33,928 --> 02:17:36,806
to killing a guy is to cuckold him

2425
02:17:37,265 --> 02:17:40,059
in Nicky's world. So that's what Nicky does.

2426
02:17:40,685 --> 02:17:42,687
(LAUGHING) She is also angry at Ace

2427
02:17:42,771 --> 02:17:47,692
and the best thing she can do
is betray Ace with his best friend.

2428
02:17:48,234 --> 02:17:51,738
So how do you walk away
from a soap opera like that?

2429
02:17:51,821 --> 02:17:54,991
We should have shown this movie
at 9:00 in the morning on soaps.

2430
02:17:55,074 --> 02:17:57,202
It's classic stuff.

2431
02:17:58,328 --> 02:17:59,496
ANNQOUNCER: Frank Vincent.

2432
02:17:59,579 --> 02:18:03,291
VINCENT: The first time I saw it, I said,
"I'm not sure about this film."

2433
02:18:04,542 --> 02:18:08,296
Then when I saw it one or two more times,
l became sure of it

2434
02:18:08,546 --> 02:18:11,841
because it's a lot to see on a one-time basis.

2435
02:18:12,383 --> 02:18:16,262
And I see a lot of people now
that tell me how much they love Casino.

2436
02:18:16,346 --> 02:18:19,224
And it happens with all of Marty's films.

2437
02:18:19,390 --> 02:18:21,643
It always has a delayed effect on people.

2438
02:18:21,726 --> 02:18:25,897
I see people who know
every word of the films.

2439
02:18:26,981 --> 02:18:30,652
So there is a delayed effect
on all of Marty's films

2440
02:18:30,735 --> 02:18:34,697
because I don't think you can watch
any one of these three films one time

2441
02:18:34,781 --> 02:18:36,449
and get it.

2442
02:18:36,533 --> 02:18:39,077
Because there is so much to see

2443
02:18:39,160 --> 02:18:42,789
that people watch it, they have it
on their machines, they come home...

2444
02:18:42,872 --> 02:18:47,752
One guy told he just walked in the house,
he puts it on and watches Casino

2445
02:18:48,336 --> 02:18:51,589
over and over
and little nuances that he picks up.

2446
02:18:51,673 --> 02:18:55,802
And he watches Raging Bull
over and over and Goodfellas.

2447
02:18:55,885 --> 02:18:58,680
So my initial reaction was, "Wait a minute.

2448
02:18:59,180 --> 02:19:04,185
“It's long and it has a lot of characters in it.
There's a big story in it."

2449
02:19:05,103 --> 02:19:07,689
So it took me a time or two

2450
02:19:08,231 --> 02:19:10,567
to really get it.

2451
02:19:11,192 --> 02:19:12,569
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

2452
02:19:12,694 --> 02:19:14,612
SCORSESE: This was a very

2453
02:19:15,405 --> 02:19:20,201
relaxed way of working
that we have between Joe and Bob De Niro.

2454
02:19:20,285 --> 02:19:22,537
And then Sharon was brought into that.

2455
02:19:22,620 --> 02:19:25,290
It was a long process working with her

2456
02:19:26,124 --> 02:19:29,460
and meeting and auditioning with her.
She agreed to an audition.

2457
02:19:29,544 --> 02:19:32,088
We auditioned
a bunch of other terrific ladies.

2458
02:19:32,171 --> 02:19:35,008
But she really
seemed to have something special,

2459
02:19:35,091 --> 02:19:36,718
particularly with that character

2460
02:19:36,801 --> 02:19:39,137
and she was ready
to push through as an actress

2461
02:19:39,220 --> 02:19:42,599
and go further
than what she had done before.

2462
02:19:42,765 --> 02:19:46,728
And the real generosity there was betlween

2463
02:19:46,811 --> 02:19:49,939
De Niro helping her in the scenes,

2464
02:19:50,398 --> 02:19:52,025
being there for her.

2465
02:19:52,483 --> 02:19:54,527
That was very important.

2466
02:19:55,069 --> 02:19:58,114
Helping her and being patient with her.

2467
02:19:58,448 --> 02:19:59,991
This was very important.

2468
02:20:00,074 --> 02:20:03,369
And Pesci, for the most part,
he only has a few scenes with her.

2469
02:20:03,453 --> 02:20:07,707
But Bob has many scenes with her,
so we'd lay it all out very carefully

2470
02:20:08,082 --> 02:20:12,086
so that she felt comfortable
in some scenes, particularly where

2471
02:20:12,712 --> 02:20:16,549
it's revealed that
she's been having an affair with Nicky.

2472
02:20:16,633 --> 02:20:18,259
She's in the bedroom, crying

2473
02:20:18,343 --> 02:20:20,720
and he says,
"Do you realize what could happen?”

2474
02:20:20,803 --> 02:20:24,474
In that scene, it was so quiet in the place,
we just simply

2475
02:20:24,974 --> 02:20:27,477
made her feel okay and comfortable.

2476
02:20:27,685 --> 02:20:29,896
She was slowly

2477
02:20:30,855 --> 02:20:32,732
somehow becoming this...

2478
02:20:33,650 --> 02:20:36,402
Becoming the emotion,
Just lying there on the ground.

2479
02:20:36,486 --> 02:20:38,112
Then we just turned the camera on

2480
02:20:38,196 --> 02:20:40,406
without her knowing
and he kept talking to her.

2481
02:20:40,490 --> 02:20:45,078
So I had to be very careful.
She was really something in that scene.

2482
02:20:45,954 --> 02:20:48,039
She felt very...

2483
02:20:48,206 --> 02:20:51,709
l remember, just to do the death scene,
she was waiting during the lighting,

2484
02:20:51,793 --> 02:20:53,961
she'd come and sit next to me
and hold my hand.

2485
02:20:54,045 --> 02:20:57,632
You have to go through the experience
because that's how the woman died

2486
02:20:57,715 --> 02:21:00,718
in some hall of some motel in LA, you know.

2487
02:21:03,513 --> 02:21:05,598
She took on, she understood

2488
02:21:09,560 --> 02:21:13,314
the pain of that woman,
and so did a number of other people

2489
02:21:13,398 --> 02:21:17,318
particularly some of the policemen
who were acting in the film also,

2490
02:21:18,069 --> 02:21:21,364
who were no longer working as cops
but were on that...

2491
02:21:21,447 --> 02:21:25,159
In the '70s, they were stationed

2492
02:21:25,243 --> 02:21:27,996
and their job was to keep tabs on

2493
02:21:28,079 --> 02:21:31,082
what Tony Spilotro
and all these people were doing.

2494
02:21:31,165 --> 02:21:34,252
They were now retired
and they'd tell us things that they did

2495
02:21:34,335 --> 02:21:37,088
so we put it in the film,
and they'd act a certain way.

2496
02:21:37,171 --> 02:21:39,173
And a number of times, a couple of them,

2497
02:21:39,257 --> 02:21:42,802
one nice guy kept saying that
she didn't deserve it.

2498
02:21:43,094 --> 02:21:44,345
She was the best of them.

2499
02:21:44,429 --> 02:21:47,014
She just didn't deserve
what happened to her.

2500
02:21:47,098 --> 02:21:49,392
And it was interesting...

2501
02:21:49,475 --> 02:21:52,979
For me, it was interesting
'cause she really came...

2502
02:21:53,479 --> 02:21:55,523
She stood up to the challenge,
Sharon Stone.

2503
02:21:55,606 --> 02:21:57,483
She was in rehearsals, too.

2504
02:21:57,567 --> 02:22:00,361
And rehearsals
had actually worked very nicely

2505
02:22:00,486 --> 02:22:03,489
and we'd have an assistant there
who was very quiet.

2506
02:22:03,573 --> 02:22:06,117
We'd give him the audio tape

2507
02:22:06,200 --> 02:22:10,329
and he'd type it up, bring it back in,
then we'd work out and rewrite the scene.

2508
02:22:10,413 --> 02:22:13,124
Normally what I did in Mean Streets

2509
02:22:13,374 --> 02:22:16,252
or Raging Bull...
Not even Raging Bull, but

2510
02:22:16,753 --> 02:22:19,172
Goodfellas, in a number of scenes

2511
02:22:19,839 --> 02:22:23,718
we'd do different takes on audio tape,
type them all up

2512
02:22:24,010 --> 02:22:27,805
and then I'd put them together
and create the scene

2513
02:22:28,973 --> 02:22:30,850
from the rehearsal sessions.

2514
02:22:30,933 --> 02:22:33,019
So this was very important.

2515
02:22:33,227 --> 02:22:37,023
Then a lot of the other cast,
Alan King, and so many people...

2516
02:22:37,106 --> 02:22:40,234
Some of the old wiseguys
who are supposed to be from Chicago,

2517
02:22:40,318 --> 02:22:43,029
we found them in New Jersey, somewhere,
and Ellen Lewis...

2518
02:22:43,112 --> 02:22:45,156
So it was a very carefully...

2519
02:22:45,239 --> 02:22:48,659
That process was pretty close
to what we did in Goodfellas.

2520
02:22:50,036 --> 02:22:53,581
I want to know if he's
doing all right, if he's okay.

2521
02:22:54,332 --> 02:22:59,170
- He's good, he's fine.
- I'm asking you to keep an eye on Nicky.

2522
02:22:59,378 --> 02:23:01,631
- Do it for me.
- No problem.

2523
02:23:01,798 --> 02:23:06,761
You see, I wouldn't want to be jeopardizing
anything for our friends.

2524
02:23:07,345 --> 02:23:08,513
You understand?

2525
02:23:08,596 --> 02:23:10,556
- I understand.
- Okay.

2526
02:23:12,058 --> 02:23:13,434
ANNQUNCER: Barbara De Fina.

2527
02:23:13,518 --> 02:23:16,187
DE FINA: Well, the violence in Casino
I think is...

2528
02:23:16,896 --> 02:23:20,817
Again, it's a true story
and a lot of it is based on true events

2529
02:23:20,900 --> 02:23:22,902
and things that people actually did.

2530
02:23:23,194 --> 02:23:27,573
And there is always the balance between

2531
02:23:28,950 --> 02:23:33,079
showing the reality
of how these people live and behave

2532
02:23:34,038 --> 02:23:38,835
and not completely offending the audience.

2533
02:23:39,085 --> 02:23:40,503
And sometimes it's hard

2534
02:23:40,586 --> 02:23:43,673
until the movie is finished
and you start showing it to people,

2535
02:23:43,756 --> 02:23:45,967
it's hard when you have been
So close to it

2536
02:23:46,050 --> 02:23:47,718
because we all know it's not real.

2537
02:23:47,802 --> 02:23:49,846
I watch other peoples' movies

2538
02:23:49,929 --> 02:23:53,850
and I say "Oh, my God, that's so violent.”

2539
02:23:53,933 --> 02:23:57,395
But it's hard when you are there doing it

2540
02:23:57,937 --> 02:24:01,107
to really have a good understanding

2541
02:24:01,941 --> 02:24:07,071
of how intense it is or how shocking it is.
You really have to show it to people.

2542
02:24:07,488 --> 02:24:08,656
And so when you shoot,

2543
02:24:08,739 --> 02:24:12,660
you shoot different variations
and different intensities of the violence

2544
02:24:12,743 --> 02:24:15,663
and then during the editing
and showing it to people

2545
02:24:15,746 --> 02:24:17,456
usually means taking it back.

2546
02:24:17,582 --> 02:24:20,877
I mean, I'm not talking about censorship
or the MPAA rating.

2547
02:24:20,960 --> 02:24:22,920
Just generally sort of taking it,

2548
02:24:23,337 --> 02:24:26,674
showing it to people you trust
and just seeing how they...

2549
02:24:26,841 --> 02:24:29,343
Because you want it to be upsetting

2550
02:24:29,510 --> 02:24:32,805
but you don't want it to be
So upsetting that people can't

2551
02:24:32,930 --> 02:24:35,766
look at it or they think it's too upsetting

2552
02:24:36,142 --> 02:24:39,770
or it just ruins
the whole experience of the movie.

2553
02:24:41,480 --> 02:24:43,983
I think the violence in his movies

2554
02:24:44,984 --> 02:24:46,319
always has a...

2555
02:24:48,279 --> 02:24:52,116
When somebody does something really bad
and somebody's really violent

2556
02:24:52,199 --> 02:24:56,037
there is a morality
to what happens to them, there's a result.

2557
02:24:56,829 --> 02:25:00,124
So if somebody really shoots a gun

2558
02:25:01,792 --> 02:25:03,461
and somebody gets shot,

2559
02:25:03,628 --> 02:25:07,089
unlike in television and other movies,
you actually see

2560
02:25:07,173 --> 02:25:08,674
that they have been hurt

2561
02:25:08,799 --> 02:25:12,595
and they have been wounded,
and it's bloody and it's really shocking.

2562
02:25:12,678 --> 02:25:16,182
I think so much of the violence
in other people's movies

2563
02:25:16,307 --> 02:25:18,267
and on television, in particular,

2564
02:25:18,351 --> 02:25:20,895
people are shooting
one another all the time

2565
02:25:20,978 --> 02:25:23,230
and there never seems to be any real resull.

2566
02:25:24,023 --> 02:25:25,608
They cut away

2567
02:25:25,691 --> 02:25:28,236
and there's never any blood,
there's never any...

2568
02:25:28,319 --> 02:25:33,032
It's like a game.
I think it's sending a message

2569
02:25:33,157 --> 02:25:35,868
that you can take a gun
and fire it at someone

2570
02:25:35,993 --> 02:25:37,828
and nothing really happens.

2571
02:25:38,329 --> 02:25:40,289
And I think in Marty's movies

2572
02:25:40,373 --> 02:25:43,167
when somebody gets shot, you see it

2573
02:25:43,334 --> 02:25:45,211
when somebody gets hit, you see it.

2574
02:25:45,670 --> 02:25:49,340
And then usually that person,
who has been living this life

2575
02:25:49,924 --> 02:25:51,842
of crime and violence,

2576
02:25:51,926 --> 02:25:54,178
usually in the end

2577
02:25:54,428 --> 02:25:56,597
something happens to him, as well.

2578
02:25:56,681 --> 02:25:59,517
"You live by the sword,
you die by the sword."

2579
02:25:59,600 --> 02:26:01,102
So there is a moral...

2580
02:26:01,185 --> 02:26:04,438
In a strange way,
there is this very strict morality to it.

2581
02:26:05,022 --> 02:26:08,526
And I think,
even though the movies are very violent

2582
02:26:08,609 --> 02:26:10,820
they don't show that lifestyle

2583
02:26:10,903 --> 02:26:13,864
as being particularly attractive in the end.

2584
02:26:15,241 --> 02:26:18,411
NICKY: I said I'm not sure. I'll let you know.
l want to think about it.

2585
02:26:18,786 --> 02:26:21,706
Where are these pricks at?
They're in the motel?

2586
02:26:21,789 --> 02:26:23,916
There or in the fucking bank. I don't know.

2587
02:26:24,041 --> 02:26:25,126
ANNOUNCER: Rita Ryack.

2588
02:26:25,209 --> 02:26:28,963
RYACK: He does look like the devil,
and I guess that's why

2589
02:26:29,880 --> 02:26:31,590
it was right for that scene.

2590
02:26:31,716 --> 02:26:33,759
But so many of these choices
are instinctive.

2591
02:26:33,884 --> 02:26:36,595
Generations of graduate students
will look at the Casino

2592
02:26:36,721 --> 02:26:41,600
and they will find motifs that weren't...

2593
02:26:42,393 --> 02:26:44,603
We never thought of them consciously.

2594
02:26:44,729 --> 02:26:49,317
But then when you go back and look at it,
you can make analogies like that.

2595
02:26:50,234 --> 02:26:52,236
I'll be right back.

2596
02:26:54,655 --> 02:26:57,992
Any calls for me, give them to Mr. Sherbert.

2597
02:26:58,075 --> 02:27:00,911
- Sure, Mr. Rothstein.
- I'm going home for a few seconds.

2598
02:27:09,336 --> 02:27:10,629
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

2599
02:27:10,755 --> 02:27:14,925
STONE: Directors, by and large,
are often very afraid

2600
02:27:15,760 --> 02:27:18,304
to let women really rock 'n' roll.

2601
02:27:18,512 --> 02:27:20,765
You know, it's like

2602
02:27:21,182 --> 02:27:25,353
show up, look terrific, hit your marks,
and shut the fuck up and go home.

2603
02:27:25,519 --> 02:27:28,856
And Marty really let me play.

2604
02:27:29,440 --> 02:27:31,692
When you get to play with De Niro

2605
02:27:31,776 --> 02:27:35,696
and when you get to play
with Pesci and Woods,

2606
02:27:36,113 --> 02:27:40,034
you're playing fastball in the big leagues.

2607
02:27:40,368 --> 02:27:42,995
And that's so where it's at for me.

2608
02:27:43,871 --> 02:27:46,123
When we finished Casino,
l kind of was, like,

2609
02:27:46,290 --> 02:27:47,875
l was so lost.

2610
02:27:47,958 --> 02:27:51,712
I didn't know what to do as an artist.
Like, where do you go?

2611
02:27:52,505 --> 02:27:56,300
You play that with those guys? Now what?

2612
02:27:57,176 --> 02:28:00,971
It was very disappointing and disillusioning
because it was,

2613
02:28:01,514 --> 02:28:03,307
what am I gonna do?

2614
02:28:03,808 --> 02:28:05,643
What am I gonna play?

2615
02:28:06,227 --> 02:28:09,063
You know, you can only... What? Medea?

2616
02:28:10,689 --> 02:28:11,982
What?

2617
02:28:14,235 --> 02:28:18,906
I was lost and then I kind of left
the business for a while. I just felt like,

2618
02:28:19,156 --> 02:28:21,659
what am I gonna do now?

2619
02:28:22,660 --> 02:28:27,623
It's only now where I start to feel like
l have some life experience

2620
02:28:28,958 --> 02:28:32,503
and a desire to begin again.

2621
02:28:33,003 --> 02:28:36,674
And what would I like to do?
I'd like to work for Marty again.

2622
02:28:39,135 --> 02:28:40,261
ANNQOUNCER: Frank Vincent.

2623
02:28:40,344 --> 02:28:42,680
VINCENT: Marty gets the best
out of everybody.

2624
02:28:43,848 --> 02:28:47,351
Sharon really went to a nice level of work

2625
02:28:47,810 --> 02:28:50,729
and she really was wonderful in the film.

2626
02:28:51,188 --> 02:28:54,024
I felt a little bad for her because, again

2627
02:28:54,150 --> 02:28:55,776
there was all these guys.

2628
02:28:55,860 --> 02:28:58,571
I mean, it was all men
in the movie, essentially.

2629
02:28:58,696 --> 02:29:00,865
Well Joe had a wife,

2630
02:29:01,323 --> 02:29:03,033
Melissa Prophet,

2631
02:29:03,701 --> 02:29:05,995
who also was in Goodfellas

2632
02:29:07,371 --> 02:29:11,584
but she had a minimal role.
But Sharon was great

2633
02:29:12,251 --> 02:29:14,837
and I felt a little sympathy for her.

2634
02:29:16,380 --> 02:29:20,176
She really played
the character in Casino good.

2635
02:29:20,259 --> 02:29:22,178
She got nominated for it.

2636
02:29:22,845 --> 02:29:24,638
I thought she should have won it.

2637
02:29:24,722 --> 02:29:26,056
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

2638
02:29:26,557 --> 02:29:28,893
STONE: I was just shocked to be

2639
02:29:30,561 --> 02:29:32,271
acknowledged for my work.

2640
02:29:32,396 --> 02:29:36,901
It was so thrilling
just to get to work with all these people.

2641
02:29:37,026 --> 02:29:39,445
To be acknowledged for my work was...

2642
02:29:40,613 --> 02:29:42,948
l remember when the phone rang

2643
02:29:43,741 --> 02:29:47,494
and I was told,
"You're nominated for a Golden Globe."

2644
02:29:47,578 --> 02:29:51,749
When I won the Golden Globe,
l was completely dumbstruck.

2645
02:29:52,458 --> 02:29:54,627
I didn't even hear them call my name.

2646
02:29:54,752 --> 02:29:57,504
I was talking to the person
in the seat next to me.

2647
02:29:57,588 --> 02:30:00,257
It was inconceivable to me that...

2648
02:30:00,591 --> 02:30:02,760
l won the mother-daughter
bowling tournament.

2649
02:30:02,885 --> 02:30:06,430
I mean, I didn't think
l could win a Golden Globe.

2650
02:30:06,972 --> 02:30:11,393
And then the morning I got the call
that I was nominated for an Oscar

2651
02:30:11,477 --> 02:30:15,773
l ran around my house like a wet puppy.
l kept running in circles like,

2652
02:30:16,524 --> 02:30:17,525
(LAUGHING)

2653
02:30:17,608 --> 02:30:20,903
"What am I gonna do
with this information?"

2654
02:30:26,158 --> 02:30:27,993
So it's pretty kooky business.

2655
02:30:28,118 --> 02:30:31,121
But I have to say,
it kind of makes you sick

2656
02:30:31,247 --> 02:30:35,960
'cause then you spend weeks
where you are just nauseous

2657
02:30:36,460 --> 02:30:38,837
and kind of freaked out and...

2658
02:30:40,339 --> 02:30:44,009
It's actually freaky and scary

2659
02:30:45,636 --> 02:30:48,764
to be nominated for these big awards.
It's kind of,

2660
02:30:50,933 --> 02:30:55,813
you're really excited for two days and
then you're basically sick till it happens.

2661
02:30:56,647 --> 02:30:57,648
ANNOUNCER: Rita Ryack.

2662
02:30:57,815 --> 02:30:59,316
RYACK: Love the gold.

2663
02:30:59,441 --> 02:31:01,527
I can't remember
exactly where that came from.

2664
02:31:01,610 --> 02:31:02,987
I think we were talking,

2665
02:31:03,112 --> 02:31:06,865
"Wouldn't it be great if we had
a kind of motorcycle jacket silhouette?”

2666
02:31:06,991 --> 02:31:08,575
I am always inspired by fabrics

2667
02:31:08,659 --> 02:31:11,537
and I think that we loved
pearlized leather for her

2668
02:31:11,662 --> 02:31:14,832
for some reason.
It just had that special flash.

2669
02:31:15,624 --> 02:31:19,503
And I had these gold skins

2670
02:31:19,837 --> 02:31:20,838
(CHUCKLES)

2671
02:31:21,547 --> 02:31:25,676
and this other stuff this
kind of suede reptile. Not reptile.

2672
02:31:26,010 --> 02:31:27,886
I said, "We gotta put these together.

2673
02:31:28,012 --> 02:31:32,016
“Let's do a motorcycle jacket and pants
and let's show that she's deteriorated.

2674
02:31:32,141 --> 02:31:34,727
“Let's give them a nice baggy ass

2675
02:31:34,852 --> 02:31:39,898
“to show that she's really declining,
but she's still wearing this armor.”

2676
02:31:40,691 --> 02:31:44,403
It's almost protective armor.
That's another thing about leather.

2677
02:31:44,528 --> 02:31:48,240
Now it doesn't define the body,
as it did in the black pants

2678
02:31:48,365 --> 02:31:51,660
and some white leather pants
that she wears earlier.

2679
02:31:53,037 --> 02:31:56,540
It reveals that she is no longer
filling that armor out.

2680
02:31:58,042 --> 02:32:00,836
You really notice the fit, I think

2681
02:32:01,378 --> 02:32:05,257
when she falls down the stairs
at Nicky's restaurant at the end.

2682
02:32:07,885 --> 02:32:09,887
NICKY: Get down there! Take it easy!

2683
02:32:10,012 --> 02:32:12,681
I shouldn't have gotten involved
with this nut!

2684
02:32:12,765 --> 02:32:14,892
You'll kill her. Take it easy.

2685
02:32:15,559 --> 02:32:16,894
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

2686
02:32:17,519 --> 02:32:21,774
STONE: There is a point
where she really realizes that

2687
02:32:22,608 --> 02:32:25,027
she's got nothing left to lose.

2688
02:32:28,864 --> 02:32:31,200
And, you know, there's a saying

2689
02:32:32,701 --> 02:32:37,206
that a woman will take herself down
into the gutter to take a man with her.

2690
02:32:39,249 --> 02:32:42,086
She was that kind of broad.

2691
02:32:43,629 --> 02:32:45,881
And when it hits that point...

2692
02:32:48,425 --> 02:32:51,261
And I really wanted to do my own driving

2693
02:32:51,804 --> 02:32:55,766
when I smashed up his car
and drove my car into the back of his car.

2694
02:32:56,850 --> 02:33:00,854
And I have to tell you
there was a point when I hit his car

2695
02:33:00,938 --> 02:33:03,774
and my bumper got hooked
on the back of the bumper

2696
02:33:03,857 --> 02:33:05,275
and I put the car in reverse

2697
02:33:05,359 --> 02:33:09,071
and the car was just grinding
and it was pulling the car.

2698
02:33:09,530 --> 02:33:11,532
There are very few times in my life

2699
02:33:11,615 --> 02:33:16,120
when I felt that kind of
down-in-my-guts exhilaration

2700
02:33:16,745 --> 02:33:20,958
where I was just loving
beating the shit out of that car.

2701
02:33:21,625 --> 02:33:24,211
It was just so fantastic.

2702
02:33:24,294 --> 02:33:27,131
The freedom of that kind of rage

2703
02:33:27,965 --> 02:33:29,800
is really fantastic.

2704
02:33:32,052 --> 02:33:33,804
And I really understood

2705
02:33:34,638 --> 02:33:37,266
that kind of thing

2706
02:33:39,810 --> 02:33:43,897
and we got that piece
and I was driving across the lawn

2707
02:33:44,648 --> 02:33:46,650
and I threw the car door open

2708
02:33:47,484 --> 02:33:49,236
and I realized...

2709
02:33:50,821 --> 02:33:54,283
And it's the cops and Bob

2710
02:33:55,576 --> 02:33:57,244
and I turned to Marty and said,

2711
02:33:57,327 --> 02:34:00,456
"Can we hold it? Hold me if I fall down."

2712
02:34:01,999 --> 02:34:04,918
And we backed the camera
because I thought

2713
02:34:05,002 --> 02:34:07,004
it's so much more powerful.

2714
02:34:08,005 --> 02:34:09,923
She has more power

2715
02:34:10,007 --> 02:34:13,927
if she actually falls down in the yard, too.

2716
02:34:14,595 --> 02:34:18,182
Like it's more horrifying for him

2717
02:34:19,308 --> 02:34:22,936
if once she smashes up the car,
then she falls on the ground.

2718
02:34:23,312 --> 02:34:25,022
The worse it is

2719
02:34:28,150 --> 02:34:29,359
for him...

2720
02:34:29,485 --> 02:34:34,031
The more vulgar she is,
the more powerful she becomes

2721
02:34:34,782 --> 02:34:37,034
because it's so horrifying for him.

2722
02:34:39,661 --> 02:34:42,956
That's when I really understood
what that meant.

2723
02:34:44,458 --> 02:34:46,376
And that's that kind of

2724
02:34:46,794 --> 02:34:49,046
breakthrough moment

2725
02:34:50,547 --> 02:34:52,299
when she's just

2726
02:34:53,717 --> 02:34:55,886
crushing him with her own vulgarity.

2727
02:34:56,303 --> 02:35:00,516
And it's so freeing for her
because she's got nothing left to lose.

2728
02:35:03,560 --> 02:35:05,729
What are you looking at? Fuck offl

2729
02:35:05,896 --> 02:35:09,316
Go back inside!
This is none of your business.

2730
02:35:09,399 --> 02:35:11,985
I don't have to take your shit
all the time anymore.

2731
02:35:12,069 --> 02:35:14,655
I will go to the FBI! I'll go to the police!

2732
02:35:14,738 --> 02:35:17,407
- I am not protecting you anymore!
- Mrs. Rothstein...

2733
02:35:17,574 --> 02:35:18,992
GINGER: He won't let me inside!

2734
02:35:22,913 --> 02:35:26,166
Mr. Rothstein, we've been getting
some complaints about the noise.

2735
02:35:26,250 --> 02:35:28,043
I'm just trying to get in my house.

2736
02:35:28,252 --> 02:35:29,503
ANNOUNCER: Thelma Schoonmaker.

2737
02:35:29,836 --> 02:35:32,548
SCHOONMAKER: Marty always has humor
throughout his films.

2738
02:35:33,215 --> 02:35:35,843
It's not up-front kind of humor

2739
02:35:36,760 --> 02:35:39,012
but it's humanity,
it's the way people behave

2740
02:35:39,096 --> 02:35:42,933
(LAUGHS) and the way things
are sometimes said unexpectedly

2741
02:35:43,892 --> 02:35:45,060
that are bizarre.

2742
02:35:45,352 --> 02:35:49,523
He's always had tremendous humor
in his films, from the beginning.

2743
02:35:49,857 --> 02:35:52,192
And so here, as usual

2744
02:35:52,276 --> 02:35:56,280
Marty loves to capitalize on any accident
that occurs and the improvisation.

2745
02:35:56,405 --> 02:35:57,864
And if it was humorous,

2746
02:35:57,948 --> 02:36:01,618
for example, the way Sharon Stone
was throwing things at Bob was so funny

2747
02:36:01,743 --> 02:36:03,287
and his reaction with

2748
02:36:04,246 --> 02:36:06,456
the leaves flying in front of his face

2749
02:36:06,540 --> 02:36:10,043
(LAUGHING) and him just going like this
to the cops was...

2750
02:36:10,127 --> 02:36:13,130
We did pull that out as much as we could.

2751
02:36:13,255 --> 02:36:16,884
But it was there, believe me.
l didn't have to find it

2752
02:36:16,967 --> 02:36:20,637
And it's just a matter of finding a way
to make the improvisation

2753
02:36:20,721 --> 02:36:23,807
hang together dramatically,
and yet get the best of the humor.

2754
02:36:24,474 --> 02:36:25,976
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

2755
02:36:26,059 --> 02:36:29,897
PILEGGI: I was in Las Vegas all during
the shoot but I never went to the set.

2756
02:36:29,980 --> 02:36:33,567
I was within walking distance of the set
for three or four months.

2757
02:36:33,650 --> 02:36:35,068
I never went once

2758
02:36:35,152 --> 02:36:38,739
because I just feel that I'd get in the way,
you don't really...

2759
02:36:38,822 --> 02:36:42,492
You're not performing any service
if you're "just the writer."”

2760
02:36:43,994 --> 02:36:47,497
And there's so much
technical stuff going on

2761
02:36:47,956 --> 02:36:49,791
and if you do get there

2762
02:36:50,167 --> 02:36:51,835
people come over to say hello,

2763
02:36:51,960 --> 02:36:55,923
they haven't seen you and all that stuff.
It just interrupts the rhythm, I feel.

2764
02:36:56,006 --> 02:36:58,926
And I don't get a kick out of it,
to begin with

2765
02:36:59,009 --> 02:37:00,510
because it's all so technical.

2766
02:37:00,594 --> 02:37:03,764
They shoot like 30 seconds, or a minute,
or a minute-and-a-half

2767
02:37:03,847 --> 02:37:07,100
and then they change all the lights
and it takes another half hour.

2768
02:37:07,184 --> 02:37:08,602
If you're just watching it,

2769
02:37:08,685 --> 02:37:11,980
it's not anything
that I really care to do, so I don't.

2770
02:37:12,189 --> 02:37:16,151
And therefore I don't bother going
to the dailies or do any of that stuff.

2771
02:37:18,028 --> 02:37:21,698
So when I was in New York,
they had a rough cut of the movie.

2772
02:37:22,783 --> 02:37:25,285
And Marty said,
"I want you to see the cut.” Sure.

2773
02:37:25,369 --> 02:37:28,372
And he'll often tell me
when he wants me to see it

2774
02:37:28,455 --> 02:37:31,541
because he's really got it
laid out in sequence.

2775
02:37:31,625 --> 02:37:34,294
He'll have other people or me see it first.

2776
02:37:34,378 --> 02:37:38,048
'Cause he's curious about what my reaction
will be to something else.

2777
02:37:38,215 --> 02:37:40,258
Sometimes he tells me where to sit.

2778
02:37:40,342 --> 02:37:43,178
"Don't sit there.” I say, "Why not?"
He says, "Sit over there.

2779
02:37:43,261 --> 02:37:46,390
"I wanna watch you..."
So it's that kind of thing.

2780
02:37:46,473 --> 02:37:47,849
(LAUGHS)

2781
02:37:47,933 --> 02:37:51,687
He said, "I want you to see the rough cut.”
l said, "Great."

2782
02:37:51,770 --> 02:37:53,981
He said, "You're gonna be watching it
with Ace.”

2783
02:37:54,064 --> 02:37:55,440
l said, "Oh, no.”

2784
02:37:55,524 --> 02:37:57,734
Ace and I went to a small theater.

2785
02:37:59,778 --> 02:38:02,239
Just the two of us in this theater, watching.

2786
02:38:02,322 --> 02:38:05,784
That's how [ saw it for the first time,
and it was just

2787
02:38:06,243 --> 02:38:07,995
unbelievable to see.

2788
02:38:08,078 --> 02:38:10,747
Fine, you wrote it,
but you can't put it all together.

2789
02:38:10,831 --> 02:38:14,209
You can't put the Bass titles on,

2790
02:38:14,292 --> 02:38:17,004
you can't put the Saint Matthew's Passion.

2791
02:38:17,087 --> 02:38:19,464
When you are writing,
you are on a computer.

2792
02:38:19,548 --> 02:38:24,136
You don't have the orchestra, the color,
all of that stuff laid out.

2793
02:38:24,219 --> 02:38:26,972
When you type the fact
that he gets up from his desk

2794
02:38:27,055 --> 02:38:29,933
and walks to the closet without his pants,

2795
02:38:30,392 --> 02:38:34,730
you don't have the color turquoise socks.
That all comes...

2796
02:38:34,938 --> 02:38:36,690
That's your costume person,

2797
02:38:36,773 --> 02:38:40,444
that's your set designer,
that's Marty's vision for how it goes.

2798
02:38:40,527 --> 02:38:42,529
And so you see it for the first time,

2799
02:38:42,612 --> 02:38:45,240
it sort of explodes,
the movie explodes for you

2800
02:38:45,323 --> 02:38:46,783
if you are the writer.

2801
02:38:46,867 --> 02:38:50,454
And it also exploded for Ace.
He just got up...

2802
02:38:51,079 --> 02:38:53,373
You would never do anything like hug Ace

2803
02:38:53,457 --> 02:38:57,836
but we came as close to doing that
as you can.

2804
02:38:58,336 --> 02:39:01,381
'Cause I think he was really pleased
and he was, you know...

2805
02:39:01,465 --> 02:39:04,009
All of that angst and all of that,

2806
02:39:05,010 --> 02:39:07,345
the memory of that nightmare

2807
02:39:08,055 --> 02:39:10,307
that he lived through, I think,

2808
02:39:10,474 --> 02:39:12,768
he felt happy that he had helped.

2809
02:39:13,894 --> 02:39:16,938
The final result
was more than I could have dreamed of.

2810
02:39:17,022 --> 02:39:21,026
I mean, it's such a big movie, it's so grand

2811
02:39:21,109 --> 02:39:25,363
and it tells such a...
It's complicated but it tells a simple story.

2812
02:39:25,739 --> 02:39:28,700
But it's complicated in a good way.

2813
02:39:28,992 --> 02:39:31,787
I think it's rich

2814
02:39:31,870 --> 02:39:35,624
in what it shows of that period.

2815
02:39:36,500 --> 02:39:41,379
And I'm not talking about the writing part.
I'm talking about what Marty did with it.

2816
02:39:41,838 --> 02:39:43,006
The combination of...

2817
02:39:43,089 --> 02:39:46,009
I mean, I gave him a structure
from the book

2818
02:39:46,092 --> 02:39:48,428
and then we wrote the screenplay.

2819
02:39:48,512 --> 02:39:52,390
But that screenplay was so enhanced,
as screenplays are

2820
02:39:52,808 --> 02:39:54,601
by camera angles

2821
02:39:55,227 --> 02:39:57,312
and mood and color.

2822
02:39:58,438 --> 02:40:01,650
And the music
is always so important to Marty.

2823
02:40:01,775 --> 02:40:05,946
It's never failed him,
I mean, right back in Boxcar Bertha

2824
02:40:06,113 --> 02:40:08,824
he just had it, he just knew that part of it.

2825
02:40:08,907 --> 02:40:10,617
SAM: Everyone began to tumble,
like dominoes.

2826
02:40:10,700 --> 02:40:12,202
FBIl We have a warrant!

2827
02:40:12,285 --> 02:40:14,579
SAM: Between Piscano complaining
on the wire

2828
02:40:14,663 --> 02:40:17,874
between Nicky, Ginger, me and my license,

2829
02:40:18,041 --> 02:40:21,628
paradise. We managed to really fuck it up.

2830
02:40:21,711 --> 02:40:22,754
Mom.

2831
02:40:22,838 --> 02:40:24,172
ANNOUNCER: Sharon Stone.

2832
02:40:24,548 --> 02:40:27,592
STONE: I was searching
while I was doing the whole movie

2833
02:40:31,221 --> 02:40:34,891
lo have it come to me.

2834
02:40:35,851 --> 02:40:37,602
Did she kill herself?

2835
02:40:38,395 --> 02:40:39,980
Did they kill her?

2836
02:40:41,022 --> 02:40:42,732
Did she overdose?

2837
02:40:43,191 --> 02:40:45,152
Did they overdose her?

2838
02:40:45,902 --> 02:40:48,029
And I felt that eventually

2839
02:40:49,072 --> 02:40:50,866
l would know,

2840
02:40:51,324 --> 02:40:54,536
or someone would tell me,
or something would happen,

2841
02:40:55,203 --> 02:40:59,249
or she would tell me, or somehow

2842
02:41:02,836 --> 02:41:05,755
l would get it. And instead

2843
02:41:09,009 --> 02:41:11,887
the freight train of this character

2844
02:41:12,220 --> 02:41:14,264
Just got going

2845
02:41:15,015 --> 02:41:18,351
and it was just going and going.

2846
02:41:18,935 --> 02:41:23,356
And I wanted to lose the weight at the end

2847
02:41:23,940 --> 02:41:29,112
to be increasingly involved
in the drug and alcohol life.

2848
02:41:29,696 --> 02:41:32,282
And I started just dropping the weight.

2849
02:41:32,616 --> 02:41:35,952
Marty had said, "We'll shoot
the death scene whenever you want to.

2850
02:41:36,077 --> 02:41:38,538
"We don't have to shoot it at the end.

2851
02:41:38,622 --> 02:41:40,290
"You'll just call me and say,

2852
02:41:40,373 --> 02:41:43,126
"I'm ready to shoot it,'
and that's when we'll shoot it."

2853
02:41:43,209 --> 02:41:46,630
So I was losing that weight

2854
02:41:47,297 --> 02:41:51,218
and I was getting pretty nuts.

2855
02:41:53,094 --> 02:41:56,473
Anyone who was
on that show will tell you

2856
02:41:56,598 --> 02:42:01,561
l had lost any sort of normal perspective.

2857
02:42:02,437 --> 02:42:04,147
I wasn't eating.

2858
02:42:04,231 --> 02:42:07,234
We were working crazy hours.

2859
02:42:09,277 --> 02:42:12,405
I was so involved in this character

2860
02:42:16,910 --> 02:42:20,997
and I was just waiting to know
and obsessed

2861
02:42:21,957 --> 02:42:26,252
and I kept running the bathtub over
in my house and flooding my house.

2862
02:42:26,753 --> 02:42:29,339
I must have flooded it three times.

2863
02:42:32,133 --> 02:42:33,677
And eventually,

2864
02:42:35,512 --> 02:42:40,684
l had become this animal
who had to get these people

2865
02:42:41,184 --> 02:42:43,186
to give it to me

2866
02:42:43,436 --> 02:42:47,524
and give it up to me what was happening,
and that was all I could do.

2867
02:42:47,607 --> 02:42:49,359
I couldn't even think straight.

2868
02:42:49,442 --> 02:42:53,113
I was reaching out around
to try to make it happen.

2869
02:42:53,196 --> 02:42:56,950
I'd lost complete grip

2870
02:43:00,537 --> 02:43:05,667
on day-to-day life
and anything except being in her

2871
02:43:08,545 --> 02:43:10,964
and her drive

2872
02:43:12,048 --> 02:43:16,136
to figure out what was happening
and what was gonna happen to her.

2873
02:43:17,887 --> 02:43:19,723
And at the end,

2874
02:43:20,306 --> 02:43:25,145
l just called Marty and said,
"Okay, I'm ready to do the death scene.”

2875
02:43:26,479 --> 02:43:28,857
And we sat in that room

2876
02:43:30,650 --> 02:43:31,651
(GROANS)

2877
02:43:32,402 --> 02:43:34,654
and we did a couple of takes.

2878
02:43:38,033 --> 02:43:41,077
They were good. Marty felt like we had it.

2879
02:43:42,662 --> 02:43:46,583
And then I really felt her presence with me.

2880
02:43:48,209 --> 02:43:52,047
And I just really started
to understand the process

2881
02:43:52,172 --> 02:43:56,509
and why I'd done it, and what it was about,
and it got really clear.

2882
02:44:00,764 --> 02:44:03,683
I told Marty I wanted to do another take

2883
02:44:03,933 --> 02:44:07,103
because I was so clear of her presence.

2884
02:44:11,608 --> 02:44:14,944
And I went down the hallway
and it was so different.

2885
02:44:16,780 --> 02:44:19,699
I was floating down the hallway.

2886
02:44:21,785 --> 02:44:24,621
And I couldn't really see where I was going.

2887
02:44:25,288 --> 02:44:27,916
And I reached towards the end

2888
02:44:29,125 --> 02:44:33,213
and I had this thing where my heart
came up my throat.

2889
02:44:33,296 --> 02:44:35,548
I could hear it doing this...

2890
02:44:35,632 --> 02:44:37,050
(THUMPING)

2891
02:44:37,634 --> 02:44:41,638
And I let go of the wall, and I just

2892
02:44:42,639 --> 02:44:45,141
sort of came up off my feet

2893
02:44:45,225 --> 02:44:48,728
and I hit the ground.
And when I hit the ground

2894
02:44:49,479 --> 02:44:52,107
this sound came out of my body

2895
02:44:52,816 --> 02:44:57,821
and this kind of visible thing
came out of my body.

2896
02:44:58,029 --> 02:44:59,489
(GROANS)

2897
02:45:02,325 --> 02:45:05,662
And I could see this happen.

2898
02:45:07,414 --> 02:45:10,834
And everybody in the room
heard this thing happen.

2899
02:45:11,668 --> 02:45:14,295
And I just lay there,

2900
02:45:15,171 --> 02:45:16,798
couldn't get up.

2901
02:45:17,632 --> 02:45:20,009
Marty cut. Nobody moved.

2902
02:45:21,469 --> 02:45:26,099
And eventually Marty came over
and sat with me.

2903
02:45:30,270 --> 02:45:33,356
And we all...
Nobody kind of knew what to do.

2904
02:45:34,274 --> 02:45:37,861
And then he asked me
if I was okay or if I needed help

2905
02:45:37,986 --> 02:45:40,864
or if we needed to go to the hospital or...

2906
02:45:45,368 --> 02:45:48,538
But everybody was just impaled

2907
02:45:48,997 --> 02:45:52,542
by the intensity of this thing
that had just happened.

2908
02:45:57,463 --> 02:46:02,552
And that was when the Ginger thing
Just kind of left.

2909
02:46:07,557 --> 02:46:12,478
I felt that the witnessing of her presence

2910
02:46:14,063 --> 02:46:16,024
had been completed.

2911
02:46:20,653 --> 02:46:24,991
I thought that Marty was very smart

2912
02:46:25,074 --> 02:46:26,910
to have left that until the end

2913
02:46:27,035 --> 02:46:30,246
and to have left it to be
when it was appropriate.

2914
02:46:31,414 --> 02:46:35,168
And sometimes I think
things just need a witness

2915
02:46:35,251 --> 02:46:37,587
maybe more than they need an answer.

2916
02:46:37,670 --> 02:46:39,756
SAM: It's the only thing that saved my life.

2917
02:46:42,550 --> 02:46:43,885
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

2918
02:46:44,093 --> 02:46:48,181
SCORSESE: The violence, by the end
of the picture, the lifestyle's so violent,

2919
02:46:48,264 --> 02:46:51,768
what they're doing to each other
is so violent emotionally,

2920
02:46:52,393 --> 02:46:55,897
that by the time
you really want to know how

2921
02:46:59,567 --> 02:47:02,779
a tough, underworld figure dies, in a way

2922
02:47:03,071 --> 02:47:07,617
or is taken out by his...
It's done usually by his closest friends.

2923
02:47:08,284 --> 02:47:10,787
And it's done in the most brutal manner.

2924
02:47:10,870 --> 02:47:13,623
And this, the killing
of Joe Pesci and his brother,

2925
02:47:13,706 --> 02:47:15,792
Joe's character, Santoro, and his brother

2926
02:47:15,875 --> 02:47:19,420
is based on the actual murder
of Spilotro and his brother.

2927
02:47:20,380 --> 02:47:24,551
And I didn't know how else to shoot it,
except just to shoot it flat,

2928
02:47:24,634 --> 02:47:29,138
as honest as possible, and they even
buried them while they were still alive.

2929
02:47:31,140 --> 02:47:34,811
They were killed by their best friends,
and this is basically

2930
02:47:35,061 --> 02:47:37,564
the end of the road for this kind of lifestyle.

2931
02:47:37,647 --> 02:47:40,608
And after doing that, I sort of ran out...

2932
02:47:41,484 --> 02:47:46,072
It was no longer interesting depicting
violence in movies the way I did

2933
02:47:46,155 --> 02:47:48,324
in Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull.

2934
02:47:48,408 --> 02:47:50,994
Raging Bull is different
in the sense that you have...

2935
02:47:51,077 --> 02:47:52,829
The violence in the ring is one thing.

2936
02:47:52,912 --> 02:47:58,001
It is the emotional violence in Raging Bull
and these films that I am still interested in.

2937
02:47:58,126 --> 02:48:01,004
But the actual physical violence, I don't...

2938
02:48:01,170 --> 02:48:04,173
Having watched it,
l wasn't interested in showing it anymore

2939
02:48:04,299 --> 02:48:08,136
in certain stylistic ways.
l just did it flat in this sequence.

2940
02:48:08,344 --> 02:48:11,514
That's it.
It's almost like a straight documentary.

2941
02:48:11,639 --> 02:48:14,517
There's no other...
Just show what it really winds up like.

2942
02:48:14,601 --> 02:48:15,935
ANNOUNCER: Nicholas Pileggi.

2943
02:48:16,019 --> 02:48:19,314
PILEGGI: They were so angry at him.
They felt that he...

2944
02:48:20,148 --> 02:48:22,942
Whatever it is, they decided
he was not going to live.

2945
02:48:23,026 --> 02:48:24,694
He was not going to die simply.

2946
02:48:24,819 --> 02:48:29,198
And they said they were going to meet them
for a meeting in the Indiana cornfield

2947
02:48:29,282 --> 02:48:33,161
where they beat them to death
with baseball bats and buried them

2948
02:48:33,369 --> 02:48:37,874
half-alive in a grave,
and nobody would ever see them again.

2949
02:48:37,957 --> 02:48:40,293
There was no way
they were gonna see them again.

2950
02:48:40,376 --> 02:48:43,171
This was a great cornfield, and I think

2951
02:48:44,380 --> 02:48:47,633
in the next year or months later,
l can't remember the dates

2952
02:48:47,717 --> 02:48:52,555
but there was a farmer out there
doing his crops.

2953
02:48:52,638 --> 02:48:55,058
The crops were coming up,
the corn was coming up

2954
02:48:55,183 --> 02:48:57,977
except there was this patch
where there was no corn.

2955
02:48:58,061 --> 02:48:59,896
He couldn't understand what that was.

2956
02:49:00,021 --> 02:49:03,149
So he called
the State Game Preserve people

2957
02:49:03,232 --> 02:49:06,319
because you're not supposed
to shoot deer there

2958
02:49:06,402 --> 02:49:09,739
and they suspected somebody
shot some deer, and buried the bodies.

2959
02:49:09,822 --> 02:49:13,326
So the Game Preserve guy comes up
and he starts digging to find a deer.

2960
02:49:13,409 --> 02:49:15,244
The first thing he finds is underwear.

2961
02:49:15,370 --> 02:49:17,830
Now, deer don't wear underwear.

2962
02:49:18,247 --> 02:49:22,168
So he calls up the FBI.
They dig up and find the bodies

2963
02:49:22,335 --> 02:49:25,880
of not only Nicky Santoro, but his brother.

2964
02:49:26,547 --> 02:49:28,341
And when they do the autopsy

2965
02:49:28,424 --> 02:49:31,886
they realize that
these guys had been beaten to death

2966
02:49:32,178 --> 02:49:36,224
with baseball bats, and there was
all the CSI stuff, I guess.

2967
02:49:38,351 --> 02:49:39,602
And that they...

2968
02:49:39,727 --> 02:49:41,938
Because some of the sand
was in their throats

2969
02:49:42,063 --> 02:49:44,774
they realized
that they had still been breathing

2970
02:49:44,899 --> 02:49:47,777
when they were buried.
So it was a really very brutal death.

2971
02:49:47,860 --> 02:49:51,531
And the Ace character,
no one really knows who blew him up.

2972
02:49:51,781 --> 02:49:55,952
The suspicion is now
that it was not the powers that be

2973
02:49:56,619 --> 02:50:00,206
or he would've been killed again.
It was just some...

2974
02:50:00,289 --> 02:50:04,460
Probably they feel it might've been
somebody doing it for the Nicky character

2975
02:50:04,585 --> 02:50:07,630
because they were so bitter
and angry at each other at the end.

2976
02:50:07,755 --> 02:50:10,133
And the thing about this Cadillac

2977
02:50:10,258 --> 02:50:12,635
was because
there had been a balancing problem,

2978
02:50:12,760 --> 02:50:15,638
they had put a metal plate under the seat

2979
02:50:16,806 --> 02:50:18,307
of the driver

2980
02:50:18,558 --> 02:50:21,644
and the bomb had been placed
under the passenger seat.

2981
02:50:22,645 --> 02:50:24,897
So when the bomb went off,

2982
02:50:25,815 --> 02:50:29,485
the impact of the bomb was deflected

2983
02:50:29,610 --> 02:50:31,487
by that metal plate.

2984
02:50:31,571 --> 02:50:36,075
The power of a bomb is going to go
where it has the least resistance.

2985
02:50:36,159 --> 02:50:38,411
So it had resistance under his seat.

2986
02:50:38,494 --> 02:50:41,497
He was able to get the door open
and roll off onto the street.

2987
02:50:41,622 --> 02:50:45,001
He was injured. He went to the hospital
and was banged up badly.

2988
02:50:45,126 --> 02:50:48,004
He got away just in time.
There was a secondary explosion

2989
02:50:48,129 --> 02:50:51,090
but he was out of the car by then.
So it was pure...

2990
02:50:51,174 --> 02:50:54,093
Nobody knew
that there was that steel plate

2991
02:50:54,761 --> 02:50:59,265
and it was only there because
of the technical problem with that Cadillac.

2992
02:50:59,348 --> 02:51:00,766
ANNOUNCER: Thelma Schoonmaker.

2993
02:51:00,850 --> 02:51:02,852
SCHOONMAKER: At the time that Casino
came out,

2994
02:51:02,977 --> 02:51:07,523
a lot of people expected it
to be another Goodfellas, [ think.

2995
02:51:09,192 --> 02:51:13,529
Marty and I were upset by that attitude

2996
02:51:13,821 --> 02:51:18,367
as if everything we made had to be
a sequel to Goodfellas.

2997
02:51:18,493 --> 02:51:23,206
It's a problem we have with all of our films
because people loved Goodfellas so much.

2998
02:51:24,207 --> 02:51:26,792
For me, I thought the choice
was so interesting

2999
02:51:26,876 --> 02:51:29,545
because it wasn't just another mafia film,

3000
02:51:29,629 --> 02:51:32,965
although the mafia
is obviously predominant in it.

3001
02:51:34,467 --> 02:51:39,639
But what was interesting was Marty's feeling
that he wanted to make a statement about

3002
02:51:40,223 --> 02:51:43,809
greed and how it can destroy you.

3003
02:51:44,143 --> 02:51:47,480
So I, of course,
thought that was a wonderful subject.

3004
02:51:49,482 --> 02:51:52,485
Frank Rosenthal was
the perfect person to hang it on.

3005
02:51:52,735 --> 02:51:55,321
And so, for me,
that's what it was all about

3006
02:51:55,404 --> 02:51:58,741
because that's always
the way Marty talked to me about it.

3007
02:51:58,866 --> 02:52:03,079
But he really wanted to make a statement
about what America was doing to itself

3008
02:52:03,246 --> 02:52:05,081
and continues to do to itself.

3009
02:52:05,206 --> 02:52:09,418
He really wanted to lay down
what greed was going to mean

3010
02:52:09,919 --> 02:52:12,255
and how

3011
02:52:12,338 --> 02:52:15,258
this shallow culture

3012
02:52:16,384 --> 02:52:20,012
was going to be a problem for America.

3013
02:52:20,096 --> 02:52:23,516
And he really wanted to lay that down.
It's not a film about the mafia.

3014
02:52:23,599 --> 02:52:26,352
It's interesting 'cause they are in it
all over the place.

3015
02:52:26,435 --> 02:52:29,689
Wonderful actors
improvising great flavor to them.

3016
02:52:30,273 --> 02:52:32,275
But that's not what it's about.

3017
02:52:32,400 --> 02:52:35,528
To a certain extent, it is a Western,
but I think he...

3018
02:52:35,611 --> 02:52:38,864
Secretly, he probably has always wanted
to make a real one

3019
02:52:38,948 --> 02:52:42,785
but since he isn't particularly comfortable
around horses,

3020
02:52:42,869 --> 02:52:43,870
(LAUGHING) I don't know.

3021
02:52:43,953 --> 02:52:48,958
But, of course, he admires so much
the great masters of the Western.

3022
02:52:51,252 --> 02:52:55,882
He can watch them over and over.
l am sure there was some flavor of it there.

3023
02:52:55,965 --> 02:52:57,133
ANNQOUNCER: Martin Scorsese.

3024
02:52:57,258 --> 02:53:00,553
SCORSESE: It was how much is enough?
It's never enough, we gotta keep going

3025
02:53:00,636 --> 02:53:05,433
till everything explodes and comes down.
That's also, in a sense

3026
02:53:05,641 --> 02:53:08,477
the idea of Casino as a kind of

3027
02:53:10,146 --> 02:53:12,231
metaphor for Hollywood, too.

3028
02:53:12,315 --> 02:53:16,485
And making bigger pictures, flashier,
and more hundreds of millions of dollars

3029
02:53:16,569 --> 02:53:20,656
till finally it's going to explode,
and the bottom is going fall right out of it.

3030
02:53:20,823 --> 02:53:22,658
And we have to continue

3031
02:53:23,492 --> 02:53:27,079
the nature of cinema in a different way,
ultimately, in America,

3032
02:53:27,413 --> 02:53:30,333
I think, unless it will split forever

3033
02:53:31,125 --> 02:53:34,253
between the gigantic budgeted pictures

3034
02:53:34,337 --> 02:53:36,839
which are, at times, very well done.

3035
02:53:36,923 --> 02:53:40,843
All the new techniques are extraordinary.
Some are done better than others

3036
02:53:40,968 --> 02:53:43,429
but can't take much chance
at the box office

3037
02:53:43,596 --> 02:53:45,264
because you need a lot of money

3038
02:53:45,348 --> 02:53:48,935
to make the movie. Which means
a lot of people have to see the movie

3039
02:53:49,018 --> 02:53:51,520
to make back some money.

3040
02:53:51,896 --> 02:53:54,357
And any film that has any kind of

3041
02:53:56,817 --> 02:54:00,446
edge to it or something where
you're thinking more

3042
02:54:00,529 --> 02:54:04,241
than just something
which is black and white,

3043
02:54:05,159 --> 02:54:07,203
good characters and bad characters.

3044
02:54:07,328 --> 02:54:08,621
This is what the moral is.

3045
02:54:08,704 --> 02:54:11,999
Then having to tell the audience
constantly what the moral is

3046
02:54:12,083 --> 02:54:15,795
and indicate how they should feel
with music, and all kinds of overdoing.

3047
02:54:15,878 --> 02:54:19,256
There are other films in America
being made by younger people,

3048
02:54:19,382 --> 02:54:23,260
some excellent ones with lower budgets,
but they'll always have that lower budget.

3049
02:54:23,386 --> 02:54:27,181
It might be interesting to see if those people
would ever be given a chance

3050
02:54:27,264 --> 02:54:29,141
to be given more money

3051
02:54:29,225 --> 02:54:34,230
the way a number of people were given,
including myself, at some points in the '70s.

3052
02:54:35,272 --> 02:54:39,068
But that, I think, is long gone,
and probably will never come back.

3053
02:54:39,402 --> 02:54:41,570
So this was sort of

3054
02:54:44,073 --> 02:54:46,367
a moralistic tale for me to tell

3055
02:54:46,867 --> 02:54:51,080
and to get people
provocative and angry, in a way.