1
00:00:23,416 --> 00:00:25,507
We kept Durst down here.
2
00:00:29,025 --> 00:00:31,479
He had the TV up there.
3
00:00:31,502 --> 00:00:32,932
He had one shower.
4
00:00:32,984 --> 00:00:34,600
There's two cells
for two people,
5
00:00:34,652 --> 00:00:37,062
but he was always in here
by himself.
6
00:00:37,085 --> 00:00:39,021
He slept in that cell.
7
00:00:49,137 --> 00:00:50,783
In prison,
you're not going to get
8
00:00:50,785 --> 00:00:53,119
a whole bunch
of rich people in there.
9
00:00:53,171 --> 00:00:55,821
I mean,
most people in prison are from lower,
10
00:00:55,857 --> 00:00:59,892
lower income families,
not educated.
11
00:00:59,927 --> 00:01:02,228
I got along
with those people well.
12
00:01:02,263 --> 00:01:05,598
They all treated me
with enormous respect.
13
00:01:07,101 --> 00:01:09,669
I was Mr. Bob in prison.
14
00:01:11,506 --> 00:01:14,473
What they accomplished
in their lives,
15
00:01:14,509 --> 00:01:17,810
whatever it might have been,
they accomplished on their own.
16
00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,213
I'll never do anything
on my own.
17
00:01:21,249 --> 00:01:23,316
It'll always be this thing
18
00:01:23,351 --> 00:01:26,152
or all this money
or whatever it is.
19
00:01:26,187 --> 00:01:30,823
No matter what I do in my life,
I will have started out rich.
20
00:01:33,628 --> 00:01:36,829
60-year-old Robert Durst
sits in a Texas jail now
21
00:01:36,864 --> 00:01:40,666
charged with the gruesome death
of his neighbor two years ago.
22
00:01:43,421 --> 00:01:45,755
Texas authorities
aren't the only ones
23
00:01:45,807 --> 00:01:48,040
interested in Durst.
24
00:01:48,076 --> 00:01:51,210
In New York,
police continue to investigate
25
00:01:51,245 --> 00:01:55,815
the 1982 disappearance
of his first wife Kathleen,
26
00:01:55,850 --> 00:01:58,684
and police in Los Angeles
also want to talk to him
27
00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,787
about the unsolved murder
of friend Susan Berman
28
00:02:01,823 --> 00:02:04,123
in December of 2000.
29
00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,345
I got a case,
but I can't prove it quite yet,
30
00:02:09,380 --> 00:02:12,031
and for New York,
they got a case.
31
00:02:12,066 --> 00:02:15,868
They... They ain't got a body,
and, uh, but to us,
32
00:02:15,903 --> 00:02:19,205
it was Galveston
had the best of all cases.
33
00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:24,760
Robert Durst is charged in Texas
with the murder of Morris Black,
34
00:02:24,796 --> 00:02:27,380
not only murdering him,
but dismembering him
35
00:02:27,382 --> 00:02:30,116
and throwing his body
in the Galveston Bay.
36
00:02:30,151 --> 00:02:32,134
They had the evidence.
37
00:02:32,186 --> 00:02:35,271
The conviction
would be gotten in Texas.
38
00:02:36,190 --> 00:02:38,557
Durst dismembered the body,
39
00:02:38,593 --> 00:02:41,227
put it in garbage bags,
and threw it in the river.
40
00:02:41,262 --> 00:02:43,529
I mean, how do you defend this?
41
00:02:43,564 --> 00:02:46,532
It would seem to be a home run
for the prosecution.
42
00:02:54,008 --> 00:02:57,476
Robert Durst
shot and killed Morris Black,
43
00:02:57,512 --> 00:02:59,662
dismembered him,
and threw him away like trash.
44
00:02:59,714 --> 00:03:01,080
That was our focus.
45
00:03:01,132 --> 00:03:04,884
Nobody deserves to be killed
46
00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:06,752
and their head cut off,
47
00:03:06,804 --> 00:03:10,339
their arms cut off,
their legs cut off,
48
00:03:10,391 --> 00:03:14,260
and packaged up like garbage.
49
00:03:14,295 --> 00:03:16,595
The evidence, the totality
50
00:03:16,631 --> 00:03:20,516
of the circumstances of this
case pointed us to one charge
51
00:03:20,568 --> 00:03:23,269
and one charge only,
and that was murder.
52
00:03:26,324 --> 00:03:28,691
Legendary
Texas lawyer Dick DeGuerin
53
00:03:28,743 --> 00:03:31,660
heads the billionaire's
high-powered defense team.
54
00:03:31,696 --> 00:03:33,362
I think it's a beautiful
day in Galveston.
55
00:03:33,414 --> 00:03:35,414
That's all I can say.
56
00:03:35,450 --> 00:03:38,284
I always
get nervous before a trial.
57
00:03:38,286 --> 00:03:41,337
I always worry about
maybe there's something
58
00:03:41,372 --> 00:03:46,692
I should have done I didn't do,
and often I'm right about that.
59
00:03:48,663 --> 00:03:50,496
There were
moments where you kind of
60
00:03:50,531 --> 00:03:53,199
gagged on what you had
gotten yourself into.
61
00:03:53,234 --> 00:03:55,885
We've got a guy cut up
in 20 different pieces
62
00:03:55,937 --> 00:03:59,939
thrown in a bay,
and they're expecting us to win this case.
63
00:05:21,827 --> 00:05:24,557
Good? 3, 2, 1. 3, 2, 1.
64
00:05:27,295 --> 00:05:28,961
An eccentric
New York real estate heir
65
00:05:28,996 --> 00:05:30,946
is on trial in Texas.
66
00:05:30,982 --> 00:05:32,948
In a Galveston court,
Robert Durst
67
00:05:32,984 --> 00:05:36,402
is looking back at a murky past
catching up to him.
68
00:05:36,437 --> 00:05:38,737
This has been the last
20 years of my life,
69
00:05:38,773 --> 00:05:42,508
and it's beginning
to have closure.
70
00:05:42,543 --> 00:05:44,410
We were getting requests
71
00:05:44,445 --> 00:05:47,179
from so many media
from around the country...
72
00:05:47,214 --> 00:05:48,581
People magazine
73
00:05:48,616 --> 00:05:50,966
and the New York papers
and television stations,
74
00:05:51,002 --> 00:05:52,134
and, of course,
you have your local media,
75
00:05:52,169 --> 00:05:54,053
You have your TV stations
from Houston.
76
00:05:54,088 --> 00:05:56,305
The Post had a stringer there.
77
00:05:56,340 --> 00:05:58,223
AP was in there.
78
00:05:58,259 --> 00:06:00,259
The Daily News
sent over an editor.
79
00:06:00,261 --> 00:06:03,012
I mean,
everybody saw it as a big story.
80
00:06:03,064 --> 00:06:05,097
The tabloid press
can't seem to get enough
81
00:06:05,132 --> 00:06:07,333
of the multi-millionaire
accused of murder.
82
00:06:13,941 --> 00:06:15,941
So I go to the courtroom,
83
00:06:15,943 --> 00:06:19,662
and at some level,
I felt sorry for Bob.
84
00:06:19,697 --> 00:06:23,282
I mean, he looked at me.
He gave me this little smile.
85
00:06:23,317 --> 00:06:26,468
It wasn't a malicious,
"Ha ha! I'm gonna get you next" smile.
86
00:06:26,504 --> 00:06:31,991
It was just kind of like this
little smile of recognition.
87
00:06:32,026 --> 00:06:34,960
I never forgave him
for murdering Kathie.
88
00:06:34,962 --> 00:06:38,831
It was just some element
of feeling sorry for him.
89
00:06:38,866 --> 00:06:46,866
His life just unraveled
to such a pitiful degree.
90
00:06:46,907 --> 00:06:48,440
All rise, please.
91
00:06:54,081 --> 00:06:55,848
Good morning.
You may all be seated.
92
00:06:58,586 --> 00:07:01,153
Ladies and gentlemen
of the jury, the defendant
93
00:07:01,188 --> 00:07:03,789
Robert Durst stands charged
by indictment
94
00:07:03,824 --> 00:07:05,557
with the offense of murder.
95
00:07:05,593 --> 00:07:09,428
The defendant has pleaded
not guilty.
96
00:07:09,463 --> 00:07:11,864
We're ready to proceed.
97
00:07:13,234 --> 00:07:14,933
Morning.
98
00:07:14,969 --> 00:07:17,503
The burden of proof
is on the state
99
00:07:17,538 --> 00:07:20,205
to prove to you
beyond a reasonable doubt
100
00:07:20,241 --> 00:07:24,576
that Robert Durst intentionally
shot and killed Morris Black.
101
00:07:24,612 --> 00:07:27,813
Look at these pictures.
102
00:07:27,848 --> 00:07:30,683
This is what Mr. Durst
did to Morris Black...
103
00:07:30,718 --> 00:07:34,319
Cut the skin all the way to the bone,
pulled the...
104
00:07:34,355 --> 00:07:36,121
Pulled the tissue
and the muscle back,
105
00:07:36,157 --> 00:07:38,624
get to the bone, and saw it off.
106
00:07:38,659 --> 00:07:40,592
Flipped the body over
a couple of times because,
107
00:07:40,628 --> 00:07:42,728
"I got to get around
the other side, too,
108
00:07:42,763 --> 00:07:44,663
"and I got to do the legs.
109
00:07:44,699 --> 00:07:46,699
Then I got to do the head"...
110
00:07:48,402 --> 00:07:52,471
motivated to get away
with murder.
111
00:07:55,793 --> 00:07:59,244
I'd never seen
anything like that, you know?
112
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,514
So you think, you know,
it's no big deal, but it's...
113
00:08:02,550 --> 00:08:04,800
Uh, it's... It's shocking.
114
00:08:06,687 --> 00:08:10,272
At the start,
what I felt in my gut was,
115
00:08:10,307 --> 00:08:13,559
it was a murder because he had
to get rid of the evidence
116
00:08:13,611 --> 00:08:16,061
by cutting him up and throwing
him in the Gulf or whatever.
117
00:08:16,097 --> 00:08:18,163
Two local officers were called
118
00:08:18,199 --> 00:08:21,066
to the stand today,
one a diver for the Galveston County
119
00:08:21,102 --> 00:08:23,969
Sheriff's Department
who talked about where Morris Black's
120
00:08:24,004 --> 00:08:26,905
body parts were found
in Galveston Bay.
121
00:08:26,907 --> 00:08:28,741
Sitting back
in New York watching this
122
00:08:28,793 --> 00:08:30,642
with my colleagues, I would say,
123
00:08:30,678 --> 00:08:31,744
"Well, what's his defense
going to be?"
124
00:08:31,779 --> 00:08:34,146
and they would
almost unanimously say,
125
00:08:34,181 --> 00:08:36,281
"It doesn't matter what his
defense is because he's guilty
126
00:08:36,317 --> 00:08:37,683
"and they're going to find him
guilty because he cut up
127
00:08:37,718 --> 00:08:39,852
the body and, therefore,
he's going to be found guilty,"
128
00:08:39,887 --> 00:08:40,986
and all I would say is, "Look.
129
00:08:41,021 --> 00:08:42,888
"The guy's got
unlimited resources.
130
00:08:42,923 --> 00:08:44,256
"He's got a very smart lawyer.
131
00:08:44,291 --> 00:08:47,126
It's a publicity case.
He's gonna have some defense."
132
00:08:54,902 --> 00:08:58,504
Bob has feelings.
This is his first girlfriend.
133
00:08:58,539 --> 00:09:01,173
He'd been carrying that picture
with him.
134
00:09:01,208 --> 00:09:03,609
He had it when he was arrested.
135
00:09:05,579 --> 00:09:09,498
That's the pictures of his wedding,
he and Kathie.
136
00:09:12,019 --> 00:09:13,952
He had them
when he was arrested.
137
00:09:16,624 --> 00:09:20,959
And there's a picture of Bob
as a young boy.
138
00:09:22,196 --> 00:09:25,230
He had them
when he was arrested.
139
00:09:25,266 --> 00:09:28,500
When I first met Bob,
he was not loud.
140
00:09:28,536 --> 00:09:30,869
He was not even
terribly responsive,
141
00:09:30,905 --> 00:09:33,005
but he had an intelligence.
142
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:34,940
He had some wit to him.
143
00:09:34,975 --> 00:09:37,075
He's disheveled.
144
00:09:37,111 --> 00:09:39,111
He's been through the mill.
145
00:09:39,146 --> 00:09:41,814
He's been held in circumstances
in which he's never been,
146
00:09:41,816 --> 00:09:43,949
but you have to look past that
147
00:09:43,984 --> 00:09:48,120
and see this lump of clay here
that I'm going to have to mold.
148
00:09:48,155 --> 00:09:51,490
Has it got the capacity
to be molded into the shape
149
00:09:51,492 --> 00:09:55,527
that I want it to be in
by the time we get to a jury?
150
00:09:55,563 --> 00:09:58,530
I thought he was going to make
a pretty good defendant.
151
00:10:00,518 --> 00:10:02,687
Our first witness, Your Honor, is Bob Durst.
152
00:10:02,770 --> 00:10:04,814
Mr. Durst, would you come forward please?
153
00:10:04,905 --> 00:10:06,905
When
the defense opened their case
154
00:10:06,941 --> 00:10:09,274
and called Durst
as a first witness,
155
00:10:09,310 --> 00:10:12,094
I was shocked.
156
00:10:14,949 --> 00:10:19,370
Mr. Durst, something happened
on October the 31 st of the year 2000
157
00:10:19,453 --> 00:10:21,998
that turned your world upside down.
158
00:10:24,041 --> 00:10:28,337
I learned that New York City tabloids
were going to do
159
00:10:28,421 --> 00:10:32,758
a new story about
the disappearance of Kathie Durst.
160
00:10:35,261 --> 00:10:37,096
So what did you want to do?
161
00:10:37,513 --> 00:10:40,516
It seemed to me
the big problem was Robert Durst
162
00:10:41,100 --> 00:10:44,020
and that I wanted to not be Robert Durst.
163
00:10:44,111 --> 00:10:46,611
They had
to explain why he was on the run
164
00:10:47,715 --> 00:10:50,132
before he even killed
Morris Black.
165
00:10:50,184 --> 00:10:52,885
He was living on the run,
so to speak, when he came here.
166
00:10:52,887 --> 00:10:55,437
He's hiding out.
He's wearing disguises.
167
00:10:55,472 --> 00:10:57,756
He's living
this bizarre lifestyle.
168
00:10:58,784 --> 00:11:00,202
What did you intend to do?
169
00:11:00,911 --> 00:11:05,041
I intended to go to Galveston
and disguise myself
170
00:11:05,124 --> 00:11:07,710
and never use the name Robert Durst again.
171
00:11:11,071 --> 00:11:13,906
The people
who actually live in Galveston,
172
00:11:13,908 --> 00:11:17,075
this tiny town
at the end of I-45
173
00:11:17,077 --> 00:11:21,496
where the sign says,
literally, "Mile 0,"
174
00:11:21,548 --> 00:11:24,416
those people go there
to get lost.
175
00:11:30,149 --> 00:11:34,487
What did you learn about this story
and who was pushing it?
176
00:11:35,154 --> 00:11:38,574
Jeanine Pirro was going to use
177
00:11:38,657 --> 00:11:43,204
a new investigation of
Robert Durst to further her career.
178
00:11:43,270 --> 00:11:46,905
Jeanine Pirro
ran him out of New York,
179
00:11:46,941 --> 00:11:49,241
and I say that without fear
of contradiction.
180
00:11:49,276 --> 00:11:51,610
That's what happened.
181
00:11:51,645 --> 00:11:56,448
Bob was driven from New York
by a politically ambitious woman
182
00:11:56,483 --> 00:12:00,352
who wanted to further
her own ambition
183
00:12:00,387 --> 00:12:03,455
at Bob Durst's expense
184
00:12:03,490 --> 00:12:06,291
with no evidence.
185
00:12:06,343 --> 00:12:10,212
DeGuerin down there
is making me the focus
186
00:12:10,264 --> 00:12:15,767
so that no one focuses
on what Robert Durst did.
187
00:12:15,803 --> 00:12:19,771
It was very easy for us
to make her the enemy.
188
00:12:19,807 --> 00:12:24,276
We kind of created this mythical
character in Jeanine Pirro,
189
00:12:24,311 --> 00:12:28,313
and we took liberty
with how directly
190
00:12:28,365 --> 00:12:31,883
she was involved
with that pursuit of Bob.
191
00:12:31,919 --> 00:12:34,319
And until you've seen
your picture on the front page
192
00:12:34,355 --> 00:12:37,289
of the newspaper being accused
of having something to do
193
00:12:37,324 --> 00:12:39,891
with the disappearance
of a loved one,
194
00:12:39,927 --> 00:12:41,526
you don't know
what it feels like.
195
00:12:41,562 --> 00:12:43,996
If Miss Pirro
kept her mouth shut,
196
00:12:44,031 --> 00:12:45,597
none of this
would have happened.
197
00:12:45,632 --> 00:12:46,765
Are you kidding?
198
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:48,550
Well, I've heard,
"The devil made me do it."
199
00:12:48,585 --> 00:12:51,003
I never heard,
"The DA made me do it."
200
00:12:51,055 --> 00:12:52,971
They lied.
201
00:12:53,007 --> 00:12:57,592
And that message played well.
The jury, they ate that one up.
202
00:12:57,644 --> 00:12:59,928
Well, it kind of made sense
a little bit
203
00:12:59,980 --> 00:13:02,681
when we were told that,
you know, he was trying
204
00:13:02,683 --> 00:13:08,153
to get out of New York because
Jeanine Pirro was after him.
205
00:13:08,188 --> 00:13:11,189
I think that she was really out to...
To get him,
206
00:13:11,191 --> 00:13:14,192
and with having the pressure on,
you know, he wanted to get away,
207
00:13:14,194 --> 00:13:17,195
and, you know,
I can't fault him for that.
208
00:13:25,848 --> 00:13:27,975
What do you decide to do?
209
00:13:28,601 --> 00:13:32,229
I decided that I would
disguise myself as a woman,
210
00:13:32,897 --> 00:13:34,398
buy a wig, like that.
211
00:13:34,815 --> 00:13:36,192
Did you buy a dress?
212
00:13:36,275 --> 00:13:37,276
No.
213
00:13:38,519 --> 00:13:40,802
In terms of the
disguise that you chose,
214
00:13:40,854 --> 00:13:42,614
you know,
you talked about that in Galveston.
215
00:13:42,639 --> 00:13:45,724
Well, it was the only
disguise I could think of.
216
00:13:45,759 --> 00:13:48,693
I'm a guy.
And what is a guy going to do?
217
00:13:48,729 --> 00:13:50,896
I mean,
I could grow a beard and a mustache,
218
00:13:50,898 --> 00:13:52,948
and I'd periodically
worn a beard
219
00:13:52,983 --> 00:13:55,400
and a mustache in New York City,
220
00:13:55,402 --> 00:13:59,621
but I can't grow a beard
and a mustache now,
221
00:13:59,656 --> 00:14:02,040
can't do it by tomorrow morning.
222
00:14:02,076 --> 00:14:04,409
I would have to get
some kind of a thing
223
00:14:04,411 --> 00:14:07,295
to put on my face,
and I just couldn't imagine
224
00:14:07,331 --> 00:14:10,165
that any of that
would act vaguely real.
225
00:14:10,217 --> 00:14:12,918
I just came up with
the idea of a wig,
226
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,053
and then,
since I'm going to be a woman,
227
00:14:15,089 --> 00:14:16,922
I've got to be mute
228
00:14:16,974 --> 00:14:20,976
because I cannot
sound the way I sound.
229
00:14:21,011 --> 00:14:24,429
Um, I mean, in retrospect now...
230
00:14:24,481 --> 00:14:27,466
That was a great disguise.
231
00:14:28,285 --> 00:14:33,207
I went to Walmart and
I bought a woman's white blouse
232
00:14:33,290 --> 00:14:35,960
and a woman's handbag.
233
00:14:38,112 --> 00:14:41,613
I heard the jury laugh,
and I remembered talking to Joel.
234
00:14:41,665 --> 00:14:43,949
I leaned over to Joel,
and I ask him,
235
00:14:44,001 --> 00:14:46,868
"Did they just laugh
at this man?"
236
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:48,787
and it was
a defining moment for me.
237
00:14:48,839 --> 00:14:53,208
I felt like, "Oh, my goodness,
if they, the defense team,
238
00:14:53,260 --> 00:14:55,877
"had set out to
humanize him in some way
239
00:14:55,929 --> 00:14:59,297
"after he'd dismembered Morris Black,
murdered him,
240
00:14:59,349 --> 00:15:02,267
"and ran with his I.D.
and did everything he had done,
241
00:15:02,302 --> 00:15:05,737
they were looking like they
were being successful at it."
242
00:15:09,827 --> 00:15:12,663
You're now living in this
apartment in Galveston.
243
00:15:13,706 --> 00:15:15,332
Did you meet Morris Black?
244
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:18,168
I was going out,
245
00:15:18,252 --> 00:15:20,421
dressed as a mute woman,
246
00:15:20,504 --> 00:15:25,593
and a man came out of the door
to the apartment across the hall.
247
00:15:27,177 --> 00:15:31,515
He said that I should not
leave the hall light on,
248
00:15:31,599 --> 00:15:34,643
because the hall light
was on his electric meter.
249
00:15:35,102 --> 00:15:37,771
I guess I had nodded and I left.
250
00:15:40,574 --> 00:15:42,807
No one knew a great deal
about Morris
251
00:15:42,843 --> 00:15:46,044
because he was, uh, a loner.
252
00:15:46,079 --> 00:15:49,097
Every time I say the word
"cantankerous" and "grumpy,"
253
00:15:49,149 --> 00:15:51,650
I see Morris' face.
254
00:15:52,853 --> 00:15:54,569
There was a guy that lived
255
00:15:54,605 --> 00:15:57,222
in the house next door
that used to sit on the porch
256
00:15:57,257 --> 00:16:00,075
and smoke his cigarette,
and Morris Black would walk
257
00:16:00,110 --> 00:16:04,696
down the street and yell at him
for smoking on his porch.
258
00:16:09,928 --> 00:16:12,598
In the days and weeks to come,
259
00:16:12,681 --> 00:16:16,894
what sort of relationship
developed between you and Morris?
260
00:16:18,771 --> 00:16:20,689
We became good friends.
261
00:16:20,714 --> 00:16:22,714
If you stop and think about it,
262
00:16:22,766 --> 00:16:24,216
if it weren't
such a tragic situation,
263
00:16:24,251 --> 00:16:26,218
it would be kind of
an amusing one...
264
00:16:26,286 --> 00:16:28,119
Morris out in front
like a terrier dog bitin'
265
00:16:28,155 --> 00:16:31,289
and snippin' at various people,
and...
266
00:16:31,325 --> 00:16:32,857
And Bob walking behind...
267
00:16:33,961 --> 00:16:35,627
Generally a little bit toked up,
268
00:16:35,662 --> 00:16:39,564
uh, uh,
kind of cooling things down.
269
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,702
Uh, it's an odd couple.
It's an odd situation.
270
00:16:45,172 --> 00:16:48,258
Did you and Morris fall
into kind of a routine?
271
00:16:48,801 --> 00:16:50,886
Yes. We would watch TV...
272
00:16:50,969 --> 00:16:54,014
The businessy program
called Wall Street Week.
273
00:16:54,098 --> 00:16:58,102
Then go out for coffee,
usually to the E-Street Coffee Haus
274
00:16:59,103 --> 00:17:01,230
And did you wear the disguise?
275
00:17:02,272 --> 00:17:05,067
No, I decided that I was not
going to wear the disguise...
276
00:17:05,150 --> 00:17:06,276
Why not?
277
00:17:06,819 --> 00:17:08,529
It was just too uncomfortable.
278
00:17:10,931 --> 00:17:12,564
Was there ever
a moment when he said,
279
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:15,016
"Hey,
for the last couple of weeks,
280
00:17:15,068 --> 00:17:17,986
"you've been writing me
notes and wearing a wig.
281
00:17:18,021 --> 00:17:19,321
Now you're not
writing notes."
282
00:17:19,356 --> 00:17:22,073
Well, well, we became friendlier
as time went on
283
00:17:22,109 --> 00:17:23,358
in the following months.
284
00:17:23,410 --> 00:17:26,861
He asked about,
"How come you, you know,
285
00:17:26,913 --> 00:17:28,280
"were here wearing a...
286
00:17:28,282 --> 00:17:31,366
Why'd you rent the apartment
as Dorothy Signer?"
287
00:17:31,418 --> 00:17:33,868
and like that,
and I told him I wanted
288
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,955
to disappear and hide,
and I think, "I'm... I'm hiding.
289
00:17:37,007 --> 00:17:40,125
I don't find anybody
recognizing me."
290
00:17:40,177 --> 00:17:42,093
And did he judge in any way?
291
00:17:42,129 --> 00:17:43,295
Did he say, "Oh,
292
00:17:43,347 --> 00:17:44,462
it's a weird thing to do,
or..."
293
00:17:44,464 --> 00:17:45,797
No.
It was just the opposite.
294
00:17:45,849 --> 00:17:48,600
He said, "Yeah, yeah.
I did that a long time ago."
295
00:17:48,635 --> 00:17:50,135
Didn't say he changed his name
296
00:17:50,187 --> 00:17:52,137
or he dressed like a woman or...
297
00:17:52,139 --> 00:17:54,222
But, yeah,
when I said I just didn't want
298
00:17:54,274 --> 00:17:56,308
to be Robert Durst anymore,
he said,
299
00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:58,727
"Yeah.
I went through that."
300
00:18:03,167 --> 00:18:04,626
Did you own guns?
301
00:18:05,377 --> 00:18:09,089
The 9mm pistol I was arrested with here,
302
00:18:09,506 --> 00:18:14,344
and one of the two revolvers
that I was arrested with in Pennsylvania.
303
00:18:14,428 --> 00:18:17,598
And a .22 target shooting pistol.
304
00:18:22,770 --> 00:18:25,939
Did you and Morris ever
have a discussion about guns?
305
00:18:27,149 --> 00:18:32,112
Well, I don't know who brought it up,
but we were both familiar with guns.
306
00:18:32,196 --> 00:18:34,031
We both liked to target shoot.
307
00:18:35,849 --> 00:18:37,649
Part of the defense
was the famous
308
00:18:37,684 --> 00:18:41,353
"he had it coming" defense,
where Morris Black
309
00:18:41,355 --> 00:18:45,740
was such a bad guy in so many
different ways and so crazy,
310
00:18:45,776 --> 00:18:49,661
so touched in so many different
ways that we could prove.
311
00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:57,221
Let's go to Monday, September the 17th.
312
00:18:57,721 --> 00:18:59,765
Something very disturbing
happened that day,
313
00:18:59,848 --> 00:19:01,642
something very unusual.
314
00:19:02,601 --> 00:19:08,649
Well, we were in my apartment,
and Morris showed me an eviction notice.
315
00:19:08,732 --> 00:19:12,444
And, I could tell he was very upset about it.
316
00:19:15,239 --> 00:19:17,157
And, I had gone into the bathroom
317
00:19:17,699 --> 00:19:20,994
and I heard a gunshot.
318
00:19:21,078 --> 00:19:22,287
A gunshot?
319
00:19:22,538 --> 00:19:25,082
Alright, and then what did you see?
320
00:19:26,708 --> 00:19:29,545
I saw Morris standing there
321
00:19:29,628 --> 00:19:31,713
and I said, "Put the gun down!
Put the gun down!"
322
00:19:31,797 --> 00:19:33,924
"Did you shoot the gun? Put the gun down!"
323
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,556
He pointed up at
the archway to the kitchen
324
00:19:40,639 --> 00:19:43,308
and he said that he had just
shot at the eviction notice.
325
00:19:43,725 --> 00:19:45,102
What did you say to him?
326
00:19:45,269 --> 00:19:47,020
I said, "I want you to get out of here."
327
00:19:47,104 --> 00:19:49,064
"I don't want you in here."
328
00:19:49,147 --> 00:19:53,026
Did you make it clear to him
that he wasn't to ever come back in there?
329
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:55,821
Oh, I made it very clear.
330
00:19:59,466 --> 00:20:01,900
What were dealing with
is an unpredictable
331
00:20:01,935 --> 00:20:05,303
and violent man,
one given to fits of rage,
332
00:20:05,338 --> 00:20:07,839
one given to bizarre conduct.
333
00:20:07,874 --> 00:20:09,808
That's the reason he comes in.
334
00:20:09,843 --> 00:20:12,577
We're not here to blacken
the name of a dead man.
335
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,014
There's an old joke in Texas...
336
00:20:16,049 --> 00:20:19,384
They hang horse thieves
and let murderers go.
337
00:20:19,419 --> 00:20:22,353
That's because they don't have
any horses that need stealing.
338
00:20:22,389 --> 00:20:26,057
Uh, we do have some people
that need killing.
339
00:20:36,653 --> 00:20:39,448
Now, let's go to September the 28th.
340
00:20:39,531 --> 00:20:42,826
What happened when
you got to 2213 Avenue K?
341
00:20:43,368 --> 00:20:45,871
I opened the front door of the building.
342
00:20:46,496 --> 00:20:48,248
What did you notice?
343
00:20:48,332 --> 00:20:50,709
My TV was on.
344
00:20:52,878 --> 00:20:54,338
What did you do?
345
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,758
I opened up the door.
346
00:20:58,175 --> 00:21:03,472
Morris was sitting at the table
and he was angry at me.
347
00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:09,478
Bob, I want to ask you to step down
348
00:21:09,561 --> 00:21:13,982
and demonstrate what
happened from that point.
349
00:21:16,276 --> 00:21:17,511
What did you see?
350
00:21:17,677 --> 00:21:19,211
Morris had swiveled the chair.
351
00:21:19,237 --> 00:21:20,405
Keep your voice up!
352
00:21:20,489 --> 00:21:22,491
Morris had swiveled the chair halfway
353
00:21:22,574 --> 00:21:24,993
towards me and was looking at me.
354
00:21:25,702 --> 00:21:27,037
And what did he do?
355
00:21:27,371 --> 00:21:29,915
As he started turning
towards me, I kept saying
356
00:21:29,998 --> 00:21:30,958
"Morris, where's the gun?"
357
00:21:31,041 --> 00:21:33,210
"Give me the gun. Give me the gun."
358
00:21:33,293 --> 00:21:35,045
And I got up...
359
00:21:35,128 --> 00:21:36,964
What did Morris do as you got up?
360
00:21:37,047 --> 00:21:39,132
He turned more and more
towards me with the gun.
361
00:21:41,101 --> 00:21:44,969
Judging from his standpoint,
if you were in his shoes
362
00:21:45,005 --> 00:21:48,940
and you came to your house,
to your apartment, your home...
363
00:21:51,211 --> 00:21:56,814
and you found Morris Black
in there without your permission
364
00:21:56,850 --> 00:22:01,653
and you knew what we all
know now about Morris Black
365
00:22:01,688 --> 00:22:05,056
and Morris Black went for a gun,
366
00:22:05,091 --> 00:22:08,159
would you be
reasonable in being in fear?
367
00:22:10,130 --> 00:22:13,598
Would you be reasonable
in coming to your own defense?
368
00:22:15,535 --> 00:22:17,569
In the State of Texas,
you find somebody
369
00:22:17,621 --> 00:22:19,571
in your house who's
not supposed to be there,
370
00:22:19,623 --> 00:22:22,790
there's not much
you cannot do to them.
371
00:22:22,826 --> 00:22:25,577
Most other states,
what you're obligated to do
372
00:22:25,579 --> 00:22:27,128
is to call the police,
do something else.
373
00:22:27,163 --> 00:22:28,830
You're obligated to leave.
374
00:22:28,882 --> 00:22:31,165
Texas,
you're not obligated to leave.
375
00:22:31,217 --> 00:22:34,385
You can handle it more
or less as you see fit.
376
00:22:34,421 --> 00:22:37,505
Obviously,
you're not supposed to kill them.
377
00:22:40,093 --> 00:22:42,760
We always
had to keep Bob on message.
378
00:22:42,812 --> 00:22:45,430
Uh, "You were afraid of him.
379
00:22:45,465 --> 00:22:46,931
"You were afraid
of what he would do,
380
00:22:46,983 --> 00:22:48,900
"and you knew you had to get
your hands on that gun
381
00:22:48,935 --> 00:22:51,069
or something
could happen to you."
382
00:22:51,104 --> 00:22:53,137
That was the case.
383
00:22:53,874 --> 00:22:55,208
So, we had the gun like this,
384
00:22:55,292 --> 00:22:57,794
and he was pushing it like that,
and then we fell.
385
00:22:59,004 --> 00:23:01,757
Okay, that's sort of close.
386
00:23:15,479 --> 00:23:16,480
As you hit the floor,
387
00:23:16,563 --> 00:23:19,941
and as your elbow hit, what happened?
388
00:23:20,025 --> 00:23:21,151
The gun went off.
389
00:23:21,234 --> 00:23:22,736
Barn! Like that?
390
00:23:22,819 --> 00:23:24,112
Like that.
391
00:23:30,477 --> 00:23:32,777
And so they go into the fight
and the struggle,
392
00:23:32,812 --> 00:23:35,313
and they turned,
and he fell over the chair,
393
00:23:35,315 --> 00:23:37,448
and this happened
and put it in the...
394
00:23:37,484 --> 00:23:39,200
And they went through
this whole thing.
395
00:23:39,235 --> 00:23:40,902
I mean, you know,
it felt like I was watching
396
00:23:40,954 --> 00:23:44,288
something in theater,
and then he shot him.
397
00:23:44,324 --> 00:23:47,825
Accidentally, the gun went off.
I said, "Yeah. All right."
398
00:23:47,877 --> 00:23:49,827
I'm looking at the jury...
399
00:23:52,215 --> 00:23:55,166
And then I hear
the district attorney.
400
00:23:55,218 --> 00:23:56,834
So I'm thinking, "Okay. Yeah.
401
00:23:56,836 --> 00:23:58,503
They've got
a really great case."
402
00:24:05,245 --> 00:24:07,278
At some point, this gun,
403
00:24:07,313 --> 00:24:09,380
it has to turn and face you,
does it not?
404
00:24:09,416 --> 00:24:10,782
Yes, sir.
405
00:24:10,817 --> 00:24:13,251
And it's your testimony that,
what?
406
00:24:13,286 --> 00:24:15,820
But let's remember,
you were facing that way.
407
00:24:15,855 --> 00:24:17,121
That's right.
I'm facing this way.
408
00:24:17,157 --> 00:24:18,856
Right.
409
00:24:18,892 --> 00:24:21,659
The way you had it was...
Was what happened.
410
00:24:21,695 --> 00:24:24,028
The gun turns,
and it's just like this?
411
00:24:24,064 --> 00:24:25,163
Is this your testimony,
that it goes...
412
00:24:25,198 --> 00:24:28,232
Oh, I can't say
that's my testimony.
413
00:24:28,268 --> 00:24:30,068
The two of you
look like spaghetti,
414
00:24:30,103 --> 00:24:33,071
is the truth of the matter.
415
00:24:33,106 --> 00:24:35,440
Mr. Black kind of looked like
bloody spaghetti, didn't he?
416
00:24:35,475 --> 00:24:37,775
No. He didn't look
like bloody spaghetti.
417
00:24:37,811 --> 00:24:40,011
You just don't remember
how you were standing?
418
00:24:40,046 --> 00:24:41,813
I remember a whole lot better
419
00:24:41,848 --> 00:24:44,615
than this demonstration
is doing it.
420
00:24:44,651 --> 00:24:49,554
The man sitting before you
cannot tell the truth.
421
00:24:49,589 --> 00:24:53,091
You were told that he and Morris
would go to places.
422
00:24:53,126 --> 00:24:58,980
Not one person told you
they saw those two together ever.
423
00:24:59,032 --> 00:25:00,565
It was convenient for him to say,
yeah,
424
00:25:00,567 --> 00:25:02,900
they were best friends
and they were best buds,
425
00:25:02,902 --> 00:25:05,903
but I never found one person
426
00:25:05,939 --> 00:25:09,607
that ever saw them
go anywhere together.
427
00:25:09,642 --> 00:25:11,075
If it came
out of Bob Durst's mouth
428
00:25:11,077 --> 00:25:13,878
and Bob Durst's mouth alone,
I don't believe it.
429
00:25:17,934 --> 00:25:19,436
At some point during the summer,
430
00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:22,814
did Morris Black become aware
you had a lot of money?
431
00:25:22,898 --> 00:25:27,861
I know he knew it after I told him that
my correct name was Robert Durst.
432
00:25:29,896 --> 00:25:32,263
Morris would go to the library
every day
433
00:25:32,298 --> 00:25:34,298
and he would use the Internet
for free.
434
00:25:41,508 --> 00:25:44,609
I think he discovered
who Durst was
435
00:25:44,661 --> 00:25:47,078
and his family's background
and their money.
436
00:25:49,315 --> 00:25:53,651
At some point, he told Durst that,
"If you don't help me,
437
00:25:53,686 --> 00:25:56,320
I'm going to tell New York
where you're at,"
438
00:25:56,356 --> 00:25:59,540
and I think that
is what got him killed.
439
00:26:09,636 --> 00:26:12,403
There are areas of bruising
across the shoulders,
440
00:26:12,438 --> 00:26:16,340
multiple red-brown bruises
occasionally blending together.
441
00:26:16,376 --> 00:26:18,476
This is not one blow.
442
00:26:18,511 --> 00:26:22,713
These are multiple blows
across the top of the shoulder.
443
00:26:24,918 --> 00:26:27,337
Let's talk about the bruises
on the top of his shoulders.
444
00:26:27,587 --> 00:26:29,339
I don't know where he got the bruises.
445
00:26:29,422 --> 00:26:31,549
I can only say we fell down.
446
00:26:31,633 --> 00:26:34,193
You had nothing to do with
the bruises on the middle of his back?
447
00:26:35,178 --> 00:26:39,516
If he got them when we fell down,
then he got them when we fell down.
448
00:26:41,734 --> 00:26:44,234
You don't get multiple
blows from falling one time.
449
00:26:45,171 --> 00:26:48,172
Those injuries are not
consistent with self-defense.
450
00:26:48,208 --> 00:26:51,075
Didn't happen the way
he told you it happened.
451
00:26:54,948 --> 00:26:58,201
Mr. Durst, you heard the neighbor say
that she heard two shots, didn't you?
452
00:26:58,535 --> 00:26:59,536
Yes, sir.
453
00:26:59,619 --> 00:27:00,979
You have any explanation for that?
454
00:27:01,329 --> 00:27:02,747
No, sir.
455
00:27:03,289 --> 00:27:06,757
There's
a bullet hole in the wall
456
00:27:06,793 --> 00:27:09,160
that was leading from
the living room to the kitchen.
457
00:27:10,463 --> 00:27:12,396
You were told that Morris Black
458
00:27:12,432 --> 00:27:14,699
shot the eviction letter.
459
00:27:14,734 --> 00:27:17,568
There's no bullet holes in it.
460
00:27:17,604 --> 00:27:18,970
There's a bullet hole
in the wall
461
00:27:19,005 --> 00:27:22,256
because Robert Durst
shot and missed Morris Black.
462
00:27:23,426 --> 00:27:24,876
He shot, he missed,
463
00:27:24,928 --> 00:27:27,261
he beat him to the ground,
and he executed him.
464
00:27:36,322 --> 00:27:39,423
You don't cut somebody up,
another human being,
465
00:27:39,459 --> 00:27:44,462
into pieces and bag him up,
dump him in the bay,
466
00:27:44,497 --> 00:27:47,265
when you act in self-defense.
467
00:27:47,300 --> 00:27:49,400
It just doesn't happen.
468
00:27:49,435 --> 00:27:51,636
You don't butcher somebody,
469
00:27:51,671 --> 00:27:53,938
put him in pieces, bag him up,
470
00:27:53,973 --> 00:27:56,908
dump him in the bay
471
00:27:56,943 --> 00:27:59,243
because there's an accident.
472
00:28:02,148 --> 00:28:03,814
It was explained to me
473
00:28:03,850 --> 00:28:06,050
that I was gonna have to do
the dismemberment...
474
00:28:06,085 --> 00:28:08,185
There was no way around it...
475
00:28:08,221 --> 00:28:11,088
but I think maybe even my
lawyers had a vague suspicion.
476
00:28:11,124 --> 00:28:13,424
"Well, he's not going to be able
to get through this.
477
00:28:13,459 --> 00:28:15,092
"We're going to get
to the dismemberment,
478
00:28:15,094 --> 00:28:16,727
and he's just gonna, "Ach.""
479
00:28:21,868 --> 00:28:25,288
Now, Morris is dead. What was your reaction?
480
00:28:25,372 --> 00:28:30,377
I sat down on the bed and I looked at Morris
481
00:28:30,460 --> 00:28:33,380
and I just put my head in my hands.
482
00:28:33,463 --> 00:28:37,008
Kept thinking, "I've gotta get my head up.
I have to pick my head up."
483
00:28:39,594 --> 00:28:43,890
And then, Mr. Durst, did you
in fact get your head up?
484
00:28:43,973 --> 00:28:46,351
Yes, sir.
485
00:28:47,894 --> 00:28:50,188
Why didn't you call the police, Mr. Durst?
486
00:28:50,855 --> 00:28:54,025
I kept going over the situation in my mind.
487
00:28:55,944 --> 00:28:59,030
Morris was shot in the face with my gun,
488
00:28:59,114 --> 00:29:00,448
in my apartment.
489
00:29:01,032 --> 00:29:05,203
The police were immediately going to
look into who am I, Robert Durst,
490
00:29:05,286 --> 00:29:08,456
who happened to rent this
apartment disguised as a woman.
491
00:29:09,416 --> 00:29:15,588
They're going to find out there's all this
media attention on him back in New York.
492
00:29:15,672 --> 00:29:17,590
I just didn't think I would be believed.
493
00:29:17,674 --> 00:29:19,342
I didn't think they would believe me.
494
00:29:22,045 --> 00:29:25,246
I was scared to death.
495
00:29:25,298 --> 00:29:28,749
I couldn't leave this corpse
in my apartment.
496
00:29:28,801 --> 00:29:30,334
I couldn't...
497
00:29:31,838 --> 00:29:35,306
I had to get this corpse
out of my apartment, period.
498
00:29:36,559 --> 00:29:39,927
So what did you decide to do
to get rid of the body?
499
00:29:39,979 --> 00:29:42,013
Well,
I decided I'd wait till night
500
00:29:42,065 --> 00:29:44,565
and then I'd pick it up
and carry it out of there,
501
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,901
and then I realized I wasn't
picking up that body
502
00:29:46,936 --> 00:29:49,353
and carrying it anywhere
because it was much...
503
00:29:49,355 --> 00:29:52,073
I mean, I wasn't
strong enough to do that.
504
00:29:52,108 --> 00:29:54,692
I could drag it out,
but I just couldn't see...
505
00:29:54,744 --> 00:29:56,610
I mean,
I thought about putting it
506
00:29:56,662 --> 00:29:58,195
in a sleeping bag or something
507
00:29:58,197 --> 00:29:59,530
and then dragging
the whole thing out,
508
00:29:59,532 --> 00:30:01,999
but, good God,
that's ridiculous.
509
00:30:04,888 --> 00:30:07,807
What did you intend to
do with Morris himself?
510
00:30:09,434 --> 00:30:12,854
I got this idea that I was going to cut it in half.
511
00:30:14,397 --> 00:30:17,525
Mr. Durst did you,
during the course of that day,
512
00:30:17,609 --> 00:30:20,528
dismember Mr. Morris Black's body?
513
00:30:24,365 --> 00:30:25,783
Yes, sir.
514
00:30:31,064 --> 00:30:33,230
Now, Morris had tools.
515
00:30:33,282 --> 00:30:34,732
He had saws and...
516
00:30:34,734 --> 00:30:38,736
And, um, axes, a giant ax.
517
00:30:38,738 --> 00:30:44,241
Uh, I don't think he had a...
518
00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:48,412
I don't think he had a bow saw.
519
00:30:50,583 --> 00:30:53,634
Anyway,
I went and bought a bow saw
520
00:30:53,669 --> 00:30:56,720
and then a bunch of garbage bags
and stuff like that
521
00:30:56,756 --> 00:30:59,723
and went back to...
To the house,
522
00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:03,561
and I'm sure I got more stoned
and more drunk,
523
00:31:03,596 --> 00:31:06,680
and I dismembered the corpse
primarily with the ax
524
00:31:06,732 --> 00:31:09,350
but some with the bow saw
525
00:31:09,402 --> 00:31:12,686
and, I think,
another saw that Morris Black had.
526
00:31:20,421 --> 00:31:22,549
What did you do with the parts of the body?
527
00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:26,219
I put them in garbage bags.
528
00:31:26,678 --> 00:31:29,430
You put the garbage bags in your car?
529
00:31:29,514 --> 00:31:30,765
Yes, sir.
530
00:31:31,641 --> 00:31:34,227
Ultimately, later that night,
did you take those bags to
531
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:37,397
the location on Channelview Drive
you described here?
532
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:38,773
Yes, sir.
533
00:31:39,732 --> 00:31:41,612
Did you throw them all
in the same place, there?
534
00:31:41,693 --> 00:31:42,902
Yes, sir.
535
00:31:42,986 --> 00:31:47,073
And the suitcase that
Morris Black's torso was in...
536
00:31:47,699 --> 00:31:51,286
Wait a minute, I thought you said
that everything was in garbage bags.
537
00:31:51,369 --> 00:31:53,079
Was there a suitcase involved?
538
00:31:53,162 --> 00:31:55,498
Yes, the torso was in a suitcase.
539
00:31:56,583 --> 00:31:58,710
One of these... what kind of suitcase?
540
00:31:58,793 --> 00:32:01,504
One of these giant Walmart suitcases.
541
00:32:09,462 --> 00:32:11,629
We worked for days, many days,
542
00:32:11,664 --> 00:32:13,264
getting him ready
for the kind of questions
543
00:32:13,299 --> 00:32:16,700
I knew were going to be coming
on cross-examination.
544
00:32:16,736 --> 00:32:17,968
"Tell us about
what it was like, sir.
545
00:32:18,004 --> 00:32:21,138
"Where did you start to cut
on Morris Black?
546
00:32:21,174 --> 00:32:22,890
"Did you cut his arm off first,
547
00:32:22,925 --> 00:32:25,509
"or did you cut
his leg off first?
548
00:32:25,561 --> 00:32:28,896
"What did you use to cut the leg with?
Show us.
549
00:32:28,931 --> 00:32:31,932
"What part of his leg
did you saw on first, Mr. Durst,
550
00:32:31,984 --> 00:32:35,603
your friend
that you were cutting up?"
551
00:32:35,655 --> 00:32:40,024
There was a concern
on our part that, um...
552
00:32:42,862 --> 00:32:46,030
the way he sometimes
describes things, um,
553
00:32:46,032 --> 00:32:48,332
without a lot of emotion,
554
00:32:48,367 --> 00:32:50,584
hearing him describe
the technical dissection
555
00:32:50,620 --> 00:32:54,205
of that body would
lead someone to believe
556
00:32:54,257 --> 00:32:56,840
he's a cold-blooded killer.
557
00:33:01,356 --> 00:33:03,858
Can you tell us how long it took
to out Morris Black up?
558
00:33:03,941 --> 00:33:04,942
I don't know.
559
00:33:05,985 --> 00:33:07,445
Can you tell us where you started?
560
00:33:07,528 --> 00:33:09,030
Arms? Legs? Head?
561
00:33:09,572 --> 00:33:10,990
I don't remember.
562
00:33:12,892 --> 00:33:15,693
It was very
important to say, "Bob, look.
563
00:33:15,728 --> 00:33:17,528
"Your memory is very fuzzy.
564
00:33:17,563 --> 00:33:20,781
"Your memory on this
is naturally repressed.
565
00:33:20,816 --> 00:33:22,950
"We've had psychiatrists,
psychologists see you.
566
00:33:22,985 --> 00:33:24,568
"They'll all agree.
567
00:33:24,620 --> 00:33:28,289
"For such a horrific event,
it's very common
568
00:33:28,324 --> 00:33:30,074
"that you don't remember
all the details.
569
00:33:30,076 --> 00:33:31,542
Don't try to."
570
00:33:33,096 --> 00:33:35,807
Your knives were getting a little dull
weren't they, Mr. Durst?
571
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:37,975
I...
572
00:33:38,059 --> 00:33:39,602
...don't remember.
573
00:33:39,769 --> 00:33:40,853
Don't remember?
574
00:33:40,937 --> 00:33:41,938
Don't remember.
575
00:33:43,356 --> 00:33:47,151
Well, you were still thinking about ways
to get away from this killing, weren't you?
576
00:33:49,495 --> 00:33:55,366
I did not kill my best friend.
I did dismember him.
577
00:34:05,361 --> 00:34:08,028
Took the body parts,
578
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:14,368
put them in the garbage bags,
and drove to find some place
579
00:34:14,420 --> 00:34:16,787
to dump the garbage bags,
and it immediately became
580
00:34:16,839 --> 00:34:19,206
obvious to me
I can dump them in the water.
581
00:34:19,258 --> 00:34:21,041
It'll sink.
Nobody will have seen them.
582
00:34:21,093 --> 00:34:24,628
The garbage bags are heavy.
That's what I did.
583
00:34:27,191 --> 00:34:29,235
It was very important to you
that those bags sank, wasn't it?
584
00:34:29,318 --> 00:34:30,820
Yes, sir.
585
00:34:31,446 --> 00:34:33,573
If they floated up,
you had a problem, didn't you?
586
00:34:33,656 --> 00:34:34,991
Yes, sir.
587
00:34:35,024 --> 00:34:37,891
Had you done any work
588
00:34:37,943 --> 00:34:38,942
to try to figure out
whether the tide
589
00:34:38,978 --> 00:34:40,678
was coming in,
the tide was coming out?
590
00:34:40,713 --> 00:34:42,896
I wouldn't know how to begin.
591
00:34:42,948 --> 00:34:44,648
So you basically just
decided you were gonna...
592
00:34:44,700 --> 00:34:46,150
I figured it was deep.
593
00:34:46,152 --> 00:34:47,568
I'm gonna drop it,
it's gonna sink.
594
00:34:47,620 --> 00:34:49,286
Who cares where
the tide is going?
595
00:34:49,322 --> 00:34:51,205
It's underwater.
Nobody's gonna see it.
596
00:34:51,240 --> 00:34:53,040
Right, but the bags didn't sink.
597
00:34:53,075 --> 00:34:55,125
- No.
- What happened?
598
00:34:55,161 --> 00:34:57,077
They floated.
599
00:35:00,683 --> 00:35:03,936
You came back early early
the next day, before the police, did you not?
600
00:35:04,020 --> 00:35:05,188
And see the bags floating?
601
00:35:05,855 --> 00:35:07,064
Yes, sir.
602
00:35:07,815 --> 00:35:08,858
And you panicked, didn't you?
603
00:35:08,941 --> 00:35:10,026
Yes, sir.
604
00:35:10,651 --> 00:35:14,405
You had a problem, because the head was
going to be discovered, didn't you, Mr. Durst?
605
00:35:14,489 --> 00:35:16,866
I thought everything was
going to be discovered.
606
00:35:20,086 --> 00:35:23,454
At the dump site that evening,
607
00:35:23,489 --> 00:35:26,190
there was a bag with a right leg
and a bag with a left leg,
608
00:35:26,192 --> 00:35:28,859
right arm, left arm,
and a torso.
609
00:35:30,329 --> 00:35:32,780
But there
was one bag that had obviously
610
00:35:32,832 --> 00:35:36,166
been sliced open not just
with a rock or something,
611
00:35:36,202 --> 00:35:38,836
but some kind
of sharp instrument.
612
00:35:38,871 --> 00:35:40,738
And the
only thing that was missing
613
00:35:40,773 --> 00:35:43,841
from everything that was there
was Morris Black's head.
614
00:35:43,876 --> 00:35:46,627
It was clear to us
that when Durst realized
615
00:35:46,679 --> 00:35:49,463
the bags were floating,
he cut the bag,
616
00:35:49,515 --> 00:35:51,799
picked up the head,
and he took off.
617
00:35:53,352 --> 00:35:55,552
He knew the head was the most
important piece of evidence
618
00:35:55,554 --> 00:35:58,822
about what happened
in that apartment.
619
00:36:00,226 --> 00:36:02,459
There was
no wrestling over the gun.
620
00:36:02,495 --> 00:36:04,611
I think he shoved Morris down
621
00:36:04,647 --> 00:36:06,563
and he shot him
in the back of the head,
622
00:36:06,565 --> 00:36:08,148
and can I prove that?
623
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,268
No, not without the head.
624
00:36:19,211 --> 00:36:21,412
- All right.
- You all may be seated.
625
00:36:23,783 --> 00:36:26,216
Mr. Lewis,
you may proceed.
626
00:36:26,252 --> 00:36:29,453
This case is not
about what happened
627
00:36:29,488 --> 00:36:33,624
to Morris Black's body
after he was dead.
628
00:36:33,659 --> 00:36:36,493
This case is not about
what Bob Durst did
629
00:36:36,529 --> 00:36:39,296
after Morris Black died.
630
00:36:39,331 --> 00:36:42,966
The sole issue for you
ladies and gentlemen to decide
631
00:36:43,002 --> 00:36:46,870
is how Morris Black died.
632
00:36:48,307 --> 00:36:50,674
We started
getting over to the jurors
633
00:36:50,709 --> 00:36:54,278
this thought about,
"It doesn't change what happened
634
00:36:54,330 --> 00:36:57,664
"to Morris Black,
anything that Bob Durst
635
00:36:57,700 --> 00:37:00,534
did with the body afterwards."
636
00:37:00,586 --> 00:37:03,787
They... They put in front of
the jury about a thousand times,
637
00:37:03,789 --> 00:37:07,040
"Was there anything
that Robert Durst could do
638
00:37:07,092 --> 00:37:12,296
"after finding Morris Black dead to...
To prevent his death
639
00:37:12,298 --> 00:37:15,632
or to change the manner
in which he died?" And they...
640
00:37:15,684 --> 00:37:17,468
They brought up
about a zillion examples.
641
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,937
"Can you unstrike a match? No.
642
00:37:19,972 --> 00:37:22,306
"Can you unring a bell?
No.
643
00:37:22,358 --> 00:37:24,808
"If somebody's dead,
is there anything you can do
644
00:37:24,860 --> 00:37:26,393
"to prevent him from dying?
645
00:37:26,445 --> 00:37:27,728
No."
646
00:37:27,780 --> 00:37:31,448
There is no charge
of dismemberment of the corpse.
647
00:37:31,484 --> 00:37:34,585
There is no charge
of destruction of evidence,
648
00:37:34,620 --> 00:37:39,056
nothing that the state
keeps trying to focus you on.
649
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:47,998
They have to focus you on that
because how Morris Black died...
650
00:37:48,033 --> 00:37:51,134
Self-defense, an accident...
651
00:37:51,170 --> 00:37:55,205
They have woefully failed
to meet their burden.
652
00:37:55,241 --> 00:37:57,224
Their plea that they
came up with,
653
00:37:57,259 --> 00:38:01,478
accidental and self-defense,
is brilliant
654
00:38:01,514 --> 00:38:03,647
because if it's just
two people in a room,
655
00:38:03,682 --> 00:38:08,018
how do you disprove
self-defense?
656
00:38:08,053 --> 00:38:11,605
There was a moment
during my cross-examination
657
00:38:11,657 --> 00:38:15,826
of Cody Cazalas that I thought
was extremely important,
658
00:38:15,861 --> 00:38:19,112
and, to his credit,
he answered honestly.
659
00:38:20,716 --> 00:38:24,804
You know that it's the prosecution's burden,
660
00:38:24,887 --> 00:38:27,723
once self-defense is raised,
661
00:38:27,807 --> 00:38:31,560
to disprove self-defense,
662
00:38:32,561 --> 00:38:33,646
don't you?
663
00:38:33,729 --> 00:38:34,772
Yes, sir.
664
00:38:34,855 --> 00:38:40,069
And, you found no evidence that would
disprove self-defense, did you?
665
00:38:41,612 --> 00:38:42,822
No, sir.
666
00:38:48,861 --> 00:38:51,428
Sergeant Cazalas
told you the truth.
667
00:38:51,463 --> 00:38:52,930
That man told you
what the State of Texas
668
00:38:52,965 --> 00:38:54,431
doesn't want to talk about.
669
00:38:54,466 --> 00:38:57,434
Their burden to disprove
beyond all reasonable doubt,
670
00:38:57,469 --> 00:39:00,837
according to their lead detective,
they can't meet it.
671
00:39:02,474 --> 00:39:05,809
Every little saw mark in each
and every one of those leg bones
672
00:39:05,844 --> 00:39:09,746
and arm bones has got
a whole lot of intent in it,
673
00:39:09,782 --> 00:39:14,117
a whole lot of intent of a man
who's getting away with murder.
674
00:39:14,153 --> 00:39:18,956
The state's burden is to prove
to you beyond a reasonable doubt
675
00:39:18,991 --> 00:39:21,792
that Bob Durst
had his finger on the trigger
676
00:39:21,827 --> 00:39:25,696
when the gun went off
and killed Morris Black.
677
00:39:25,731 --> 00:39:30,133
Look at every piece of evidence
you heard and consider it.
678
00:39:30,169 --> 00:39:32,336
You can't segment it
and only look
679
00:39:32,371 --> 00:39:34,705
at certain portions of it
and ignore everything else.
680
00:39:34,740 --> 00:39:36,406
That's not proper.
681
00:39:36,442 --> 00:39:39,242
Possibly guilty.
Probably guilty.
682
00:39:39,278 --> 00:39:42,245
We all talked about that.
683
00:39:42,281 --> 00:39:45,916
What that means is not guilty.
684
00:39:45,951 --> 00:39:49,219
What kind of criminal justice
system are we gonna have
685
00:39:49,254 --> 00:39:52,155
when we can't consider
everything that happened
686
00:39:52,191 --> 00:39:55,158
after, during, and before?
687
00:39:55,194 --> 00:39:57,394
It all goes to the man's
state of mind.
688
00:39:57,429 --> 00:39:58,895
It all goes to his intent.
689
00:39:58,931 --> 00:40:02,466
Bob Durst is not guilty
of murder.
690
00:40:04,570 --> 00:40:08,171
Bob Durst is not guilty
of murder.
691
00:40:09,174 --> 00:40:13,010
Whatever else he may have done
692
00:40:13,045 --> 00:40:15,178
is for another time and place.
693
00:40:18,150 --> 00:40:19,750
Thank you all.
694
00:40:38,337 --> 00:40:41,004
Now to a
courthouse in Galveston, Texas,
695
00:40:41,056 --> 00:40:43,306
where jurors still
have not reached a verdict
696
00:40:43,342 --> 00:40:46,710
in the bizarre murder trial of
real estate heir Robert Durst.
697
00:40:46,745 --> 00:40:48,345
The trial itself lasted 6 weeks.
698
00:40:48,380 --> 00:40:50,347
Some people here are beginning
to worry that the jury
699
00:40:50,416 --> 00:40:52,449
might take that long to decide
whether Robert Durst
700
00:40:52,484 --> 00:40:54,351
is guilty of murder.
701
00:41:11,136 --> 00:41:13,537
You may be seated.
702
00:41:15,007 --> 00:41:17,941
Mr. Foreman,
I understand you have a verdict.
703
00:41:17,976 --> 00:41:18,976
Yes, your honor.
704
00:41:19,011 --> 00:41:21,745
Will you hand it to the bailiff?
705
00:41:28,787 --> 00:41:31,421
Will the defendant please rise?
706
00:41:39,198 --> 00:41:42,199
Well,
the verdict of the jury is such.
707
00:41:42,234 --> 00:41:45,969
"We, the jury,
find the defendant Robert Durst
708
00:41:46,004 --> 00:41:47,270
not guilty."
709
00:41:55,314 --> 00:41:58,548
Is there anything the attorneys
would like to say at this point?
710
00:41:58,584 --> 00:42:01,151
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
711
00:42:01,186 --> 00:42:04,721
We also thank the jury
for the sacrifice of their time.
712
00:42:04,757 --> 00:42:06,490
Thank you for all your time
713
00:42:06,525 --> 00:42:08,225
and attention
and your sacrifice.
714
00:42:08,260 --> 00:42:10,927
All right,
ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
715
00:42:10,963 --> 00:42:13,029
This is what the procedure is
that we are going to follow.
716
00:42:13,065 --> 00:42:14,631
First of all,
we're going to take you back
717
00:42:14,666 --> 00:42:16,366
into the jury room...
718
00:42:16,994 --> 00:42:18,704
Did they say, "Not?"
719
00:42:18,787 --> 00:42:20,080
Yes.
720
00:42:22,333 --> 00:42:25,377
Are you sure?
721
00:42:31,917 --> 00:42:36,453
- What we did...
- And it was a big struggle for all of us...
722
00:42:36,488 --> 00:42:39,756
Is, we kept going
back to the charge
723
00:42:39,792 --> 00:42:45,162
that was put forth to the jury
as to the actual event,
724
00:42:45,197 --> 00:42:47,998
that one moment in time.
725
00:42:48,033 --> 00:42:51,601
It was a very unpopular
occurrence when the...
726
00:42:51,637 --> 00:42:54,721
When Bob Durst
was found not guilty.
727
00:42:54,773 --> 00:42:57,140
The townspeople, friends,
relatives,
728
00:42:57,192 --> 00:42:58,859
they weren't happy
with the verdict
729
00:42:58,894 --> 00:43:01,278
that was brought forward,
730
00:43:01,313 --> 00:43:04,981
but when Mr. Durst was on the,
uh, stand...
731
00:43:06,535 --> 00:43:08,985
I felt he was talking
from the heart.
732
00:43:12,891 --> 00:43:15,725
Through the course of the 5 days
733
00:43:15,761 --> 00:43:18,228
of deliberation, Bob never...
734
00:43:18,263 --> 00:43:21,932
He never had more than 3
guilty votes the whole time.
735
00:43:23,335 --> 00:43:25,869
The last one
that changed their mind,
736
00:43:25,904 --> 00:43:29,172
she had a problem finding him
not guilty
737
00:43:29,208 --> 00:43:31,975
because he had
chopped up the body,
738
00:43:32,010 --> 00:43:33,643
and I could understand that.
739
00:43:33,679 --> 00:43:36,429
She was a...
She was a good Christian woman,
740
00:43:36,481 --> 00:43:40,600
very nice lady, but I just said,
"You know, that's...
741
00:43:40,652 --> 00:43:43,186
"That's not what we're
here to do.
742
00:43:43,238 --> 00:43:46,156
"We're here to determine
743
00:43:46,191 --> 00:43:48,408
"if the event
that killed Morris Black
744
00:43:48,443 --> 00:43:50,944
"was murder or not,
not what happened
745
00:43:50,996 --> 00:43:53,864
to his body after
he was already dead."
746
00:43:53,866 --> 00:43:57,167
I said, "We've got to...
That's our job."
747
00:44:08,513 --> 00:44:11,014
As a homicide investigator,
748
00:44:11,049 --> 00:44:14,217
you work for God
749
00:44:14,219 --> 00:44:18,054
because the victim's not there
to tell his story.
750
00:44:19,391 --> 00:44:22,392
You're there to represent
the victim.
751
00:44:22,394 --> 00:44:26,446
You're there to tell his story.
752
00:44:26,481 --> 00:44:29,733
You're doing that for God.
753
00:44:29,735 --> 00:44:31,234
Um...
754
00:44:33,038 --> 00:44:35,238
there's a lot of truth in that.
755
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:39,492
To this day,
I feel like I let the...
756
00:44:39,544 --> 00:44:42,312
Can we stop? Thanks.
757
00:44:58,497 --> 00:44:59,863
You told me on the telephone
758
00:44:59,898 --> 00:45:02,565
that DeGuerin might not
want me to talk to you
759
00:45:02,601 --> 00:45:04,601
because he wouldn't
want to see you
760
00:45:04,603 --> 00:45:06,236
in an interview saying
that you had lied
761
00:45:06,271 --> 00:45:07,437
to the jury in Galveston.
762
00:45:07,439 --> 00:45:08,989
Well, they didn't know
what I was gonna say.
763
00:45:09,024 --> 00:45:11,942
So, I mean,
they've always felt that, you know,
764
00:45:11,944 --> 00:45:14,277
they got this home run now.
765
00:45:14,279 --> 00:45:16,413
Now, I get out there
and I say something
766
00:45:16,448 --> 00:45:19,532
that implies that
I made it all up
767
00:45:19,584 --> 00:45:22,585
or that I told the lawyers
and that we all got together
768
00:45:22,621 --> 00:45:24,537
and made it all up or whatever,
769
00:45:24,589 --> 00:45:26,289
that's a disaster.
770
00:45:26,341 --> 00:45:28,208
So they just wanted
to stay away,
771
00:45:28,260 --> 00:45:29,843
and they said about
a zillion times,
772
00:45:29,878 --> 00:45:31,461
"You can't help yourself.
773
00:45:31,513 --> 00:45:34,130
"Right now,
you're a free man 100%.
774
00:45:34,132 --> 00:45:36,716
"You say something
inadvertently,
775
00:45:36,768 --> 00:45:39,386
"and you'll find yourself
charged in New York
776
00:45:39,438 --> 00:45:43,356
"or charged in, uh, Los Angeles,
777
00:45:43,392 --> 00:45:47,560
"and, uh,
an interview is a big risk for you.
778
00:45:47,612 --> 00:45:50,230
Why do you want
to do an interview?"
779
00:45:50,282 --> 00:45:51,698
Certainly,
you've said to me that you did lie
780
00:45:51,733 --> 00:45:54,234
to the jury in Galveston
in some way,
781
00:45:54,286 --> 00:45:55,902
that your lawyer
encouraged you to,
782
00:45:55,954 --> 00:45:57,037
and I think that's...
783
00:45:57,072 --> 00:46:00,156
Well, he didn't encourage me to.
784
00:46:00,158 --> 00:46:03,626
We went over the oath,
and from day one,
785
00:46:03,662 --> 00:46:06,329
the oath says,
786
00:46:06,331 --> 00:46:09,332
"You, uh,
promise to tell the truth,
787
00:46:09,384 --> 00:46:12,635
the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth."
788
00:46:12,671 --> 00:46:14,838
"Just make sure
the ones at the end...
789
00:46:14,890 --> 00:46:17,307
"'Tell the truth,
nothing but the truth'...
790
00:46:17,342 --> 00:46:20,060
"That you do exactly that.
791
00:46:20,095 --> 00:46:22,345
"In terms of 'the whole truth, '
792
00:46:22,397 --> 00:46:25,982
"if you want to leave out
something that does not...
793
00:46:26,018 --> 00:46:29,652
"Uh, which makes you
look bad if you tell it
794
00:46:29,688 --> 00:46:35,492
"but does not turn into an untruth,
well, try it.
795
00:46:35,527 --> 00:46:37,077
"Try it.
796
00:46:37,112 --> 00:46:38,445
"If there's something
so terrible that you
797
00:46:38,497 --> 00:46:40,413
"don't want to say it
or you think could
798
00:46:40,449 --> 00:46:44,117
be construed the wrong way,
then just leave it out."
799
00:46:44,169 --> 00:46:45,668
I'm saying,
was there something that was
800
00:46:45,704 --> 00:46:47,620
relevant in Galveston that,
you know,
801
00:46:47,672 --> 00:46:49,255
would have had an influence,
802
00:46:49,291 --> 00:46:50,540
where you knew
that you were saying
803
00:46:50,542 --> 00:46:52,926
something that was limited?
804
00:46:52,961 --> 00:46:55,261
Let me see what else
I can think of
805
00:46:55,297 --> 00:46:57,430
where they didn't
specifically ask it
806
00:46:57,466 --> 00:47:01,601
and I specifically
didn't go there.
807
00:47:01,636 --> 00:47:03,019
I'd have to think about it.
808
00:47:03,055 --> 00:47:05,305
Next time you interview me,
I'll have that, and I'll...
809
00:47:05,357 --> 00:47:07,390
I'll think of a few things.
810
00:47:10,128 --> 00:47:11,311
Shall we take a break
for a few minutes?
811
00:47:11,363 --> 00:47:13,396
- Want to take a break?
- Sure.
812
00:47:13,448 --> 00:47:14,464
Take a break.
813
00:47:14,499 --> 00:47:16,266
There's coffee now.
814
00:47:17,736 --> 00:47:18,818
Sign this.
815
00:47:20,539 --> 00:47:22,655
Okay. Thank you,
816
00:47:22,707 --> 00:47:24,791
and there's orange juice and...
817
00:47:24,826 --> 00:47:28,378
I did not knowingly
purposefully lie.
818
00:47:29,381 --> 00:47:30,663
I don't know, but the room...
819
00:47:30,715 --> 00:47:33,216
The room is the same
room we had,
820
00:47:33,251 --> 00:47:34,667
the absolute same.
821
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,886
I did not knowingly
purposefully lie.
822
00:47:36,922 --> 00:47:39,055
Yeah,
and then they're pissed off
823
00:47:39,091 --> 00:47:40,590
with this shit.
824
00:47:40,642 --> 00:47:42,008
Right.
825
00:47:42,060 --> 00:47:44,928
I did not knowingly purposefully
826
00:47:44,980 --> 00:47:46,980
intentionally lie.
827
00:47:47,015 --> 00:47:49,766
I did make mistakes.
828
00:47:49,768 --> 00:47:51,635
So I told...
829
00:47:51,662 --> 00:47:53,382
They could just hear every word you said...
830
00:47:53,855 --> 00:47:55,038
What?
831
00:47:55,165 --> 00:47:57,292
...when you were talking to yourself.
832
00:47:58,460 --> 00:48:00,754
Your mic is hot, so we can't really talk.
833
00:48:00,846 --> 00:48:03,046
Oh, oh, oh.
I was reviewing...
834
00:48:03,173 --> 00:48:04,183
Your mic picks everything up.
835
00:48:04,340 --> 00:48:05,532
I hear what you're saying.
836
00:48:05,584 --> 00:48:07,417
You could hear
everything I said.
837
00:48:07,452 --> 00:48:09,953
I never intently...
I mean, how do I...
838
00:48:09,955 --> 00:48:11,871
I mean, you know,
it's a question
839
00:48:11,923 --> 00:48:15,041
of not what do I say,
but how do I say it.
840
00:48:15,093 --> 00:48:19,796
I never intentionally
purposefully lied.
841
00:48:19,798 --> 00:48:22,715
I made mistakes,
842
00:48:22,767 --> 00:48:24,767
did not tell the whole truth.
843
00:48:24,803 --> 00:48:28,104
Nobody tells the whole truth.