1 00:00:14,210 --> 00:00:15,960 It won't be the death chamber, 2 00:00:15,962 --> 00:00:17,962 and it might not even be prison. 3 00:00:18,014 --> 00:00:21,299 Robert Durst could soon be back on the street. 4 00:00:21,301 --> 00:00:24,635 - I think it's horrible. - I, I can't believe he got off. 5 00:00:24,637 --> 00:00:26,187 My take, this is scary, 6 00:00:26,222 --> 00:00:27,388 that this guy is going to be free, 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:29,557 just based on what he did with the body, et cetera. 8 00:00:29,609 --> 00:00:32,276 And he's a possible suspect in two other murders? 9 00:00:32,312 --> 00:00:35,897 It was utter disbelief. I mean, utter disbelief. 10 00:00:35,949 --> 00:00:38,149 The New York Times, generally not known for their 11 00:00:38,151 --> 00:00:39,700 ironic humorous take on things, 12 00:00:39,736 --> 00:00:42,153 "New York City Real Estate Heir Is Acquitted of Murder in Texas. 13 00:00:42,155 --> 00:00:43,988 Durst, Who Cut Up a Body..." 14 00:00:45,658 --> 00:00:50,161 Ha ha ha! "Argued Self-Defense." 15 00:00:50,213 --> 00:00:53,548 That's as close as The New York Times will ever come 16 00:00:53,583 --> 00:00:56,751 to literally just making a joke on the front page. 17 00:00:56,803 --> 00:00:58,052 That's like The New York Times just going, 18 00:00:58,087 --> 00:01:00,555 "Can you believe this?" 19 00:01:00,590 --> 00:01:02,473 Nothing happens the way it's supposed to happen 20 00:01:02,509 --> 00:01:04,509 when it comes to Bobby Durst, 21 00:01:04,511 --> 00:01:05,810 and I've become accustomed to 22 00:01:05,845 --> 00:01:08,229 expecting things not to make sense. 23 00:01:08,264 --> 00:01:11,432 You chopped up your neighbor. Tell us about that. 24 00:01:11,484 --> 00:01:15,736 Well, he raged at me and, as I was defending myself, 25 00:01:15,772 --> 00:01:19,607 I fell, and accidentally, uh, chopped him up. 26 00:01:19,659 --> 00:01:20,825 And of course, The New York Post 27 00:01:20,860 --> 00:01:22,577 strikes a more cautionary pose. 28 00:01:22,612 --> 00:01:24,529 "Run For Your Lives." 29 00:01:27,784 --> 00:01:29,333 Murder 1, you know, we're gonna go, 30 00:01:29,369 --> 00:01:32,036 "Murder 1, this is a slam dunk." 31 00:01:32,088 --> 00:01:33,204 That's the phrase that was used 32 00:01:33,206 --> 00:01:36,257 by the Galveston Police to me in person. 33 00:01:36,292 --> 00:01:37,708 "Slam dunk, Jim." 34 00:01:43,266 --> 00:01:45,183 There are some people that, no matter how much 35 00:01:45,218 --> 00:01:47,351 money they threw at the case, 36 00:01:47,387 --> 00:01:49,220 were convicted and shouldn't have been. 37 00:01:49,222 --> 00:01:53,224 And there are people that escape responsibility 38 00:01:53,226 --> 00:01:57,862 because they're able to mount a really effective defense. 39 00:02:00,733 --> 00:02:04,485 Do I think it's unfair? Yeah, I do think it's unfair. 40 00:02:04,537 --> 00:02:06,737 But, we are in a capitalistic system, 41 00:02:06,739 --> 00:02:09,207 and the people that make the money can drive the Cadillacs, 42 00:02:09,242 --> 00:02:12,076 and people that don't make as much money 43 00:02:12,078 --> 00:02:13,628 have to get... Buy a used car. 44 00:02:18,251 --> 00:02:20,371 Did you have anything to do with Susan Berman's death? 45 00:02:22,338 --> 00:02:23,588 Did you murder your wife? 46 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:27,675 Whether it's the LAPD bringing him to trial, 47 00:02:27,727 --> 00:02:30,094 whether it's Westchester County District Attorney's Office 48 00:02:30,146 --> 00:02:33,014 bringing him to trial, 49 00:02:33,066 --> 00:02:36,267 whether it's the FBI bringing him to trial, 50 00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:39,854 whether it's the security guard at Disney World 51 00:02:39,906 --> 00:02:42,940 bringing him to trial, I really don't care. 52 00:02:44,777 --> 00:02:46,911 I hope they get a conviction. 53 00:02:46,946 --> 00:02:49,830 I hope if they, if whoever prosecutes him, 54 00:02:49,866 --> 00:02:51,499 I hope they get a conviction. 55 00:02:51,534 --> 00:02:55,870 Because I really believe our society is much safer 56 00:02:55,922 --> 00:02:58,923 with him behind bars without him roaming around. 57 00:04:37,690 --> 00:04:40,391 There are times when I'm in a situation 58 00:04:40,443 --> 00:04:44,445 where I, I will have people staring at me. 59 00:04:46,266 --> 00:04:48,266 I can tell they're talking about me. 60 00:04:48,318 --> 00:04:51,986 And they're telling somebody else that, you know, I'm me. 61 00:04:53,656 --> 00:04:55,523 There's a lot of people out there 62 00:04:55,575 --> 00:05:00,578 who think I killed my wife, that I killed Susan Berman, 63 00:05:00,613 --> 00:05:05,116 that I intentionally murdered Morris Black. 64 00:05:05,168 --> 00:05:06,868 "And it's quite possible that 65 00:05:06,870 --> 00:05:09,453 he's killed a whole slew of other people." 66 00:05:09,506 --> 00:05:12,874 That is what I would think if I was 67 00:05:12,876 --> 00:05:15,960 as familiar with the media as I am about me. 68 00:05:27,296 --> 00:05:28,512 Hello. 69 00:05:30,382 --> 00:05:32,299 Oh, Nicky! How are you? 70 00:05:34,053 --> 00:05:35,469 Can I have a name for the drink? 71 00:05:35,521 --> 00:05:37,521 Bob. 72 00:05:37,556 --> 00:05:39,473 And you got a tall Americano, right? 73 00:05:39,475 --> 00:05:41,725 - Yes, we do. - And what do we owe you? 74 00:05:41,777 --> 00:05:43,777 $5.44. 75 00:05:43,813 --> 00:05:44,895 Thank you. 76 00:05:55,825 --> 00:05:58,158 The whole Bob Durst headline 77 00:05:58,210 --> 00:06:01,879 had absolutely no affect on the Durst Organization's ability 78 00:06:01,914 --> 00:06:04,498 to work and thrive in New York. 79 00:06:08,637 --> 00:06:10,220 Douglas Durst is the chairman of 80 00:06:10,256 --> 00:06:13,557 the Durst Organization, one of the most powerful companies 81 00:06:13,592 --> 00:06:16,343 in Manhattan real estate for almost a century. 82 00:06:17,730 --> 00:06:19,680 This past summer, the Port Authority 83 00:06:19,732 --> 00:06:23,350 awarded the Durst Organization the right to take over leasing, 84 00:06:23,352 --> 00:06:26,069 management, and operation of the Freedom Tower. 85 00:06:30,025 --> 00:06:33,410 Bob's case, it's like something that's over there 86 00:06:33,445 --> 00:06:37,281 and totally separate from the Durst Organization, 87 00:06:37,333 --> 00:06:40,250 because there's a whole generation of people that don't, 88 00:06:40,286 --> 00:06:43,120 have never had contact with, with Bob. 89 00:06:46,208 --> 00:06:48,375 Bob was more, like, on the periphery from my memory. 90 00:06:48,410 --> 00:06:51,812 He was, you know, like my mom's older brother. 91 00:06:51,847 --> 00:06:54,715 Except for those first few months in early '82, 92 00:06:54,767 --> 00:06:57,134 when my aunt was missing and it was in the papers. 93 00:06:57,186 --> 00:06:59,136 And I guess it was on TV or whatever. 94 00:06:59,188 --> 00:07:02,189 Um, it was just not talked about at all. 95 00:07:02,224 --> 00:07:03,904 And, you know, I was 11 when that happened. 96 00:07:05,644 --> 00:07:08,729 Later on in my twenties it was like, "Oh, and by the way, 97 00:07:08,781 --> 00:07:11,281 "your uncle, Robert Durst, might have 98 00:07:11,317 --> 00:07:13,400 something to do with her disappearance." 99 00:07:13,452 --> 00:07:15,068 So that's like, "OK." 100 00:07:16,655 --> 00:07:19,790 I mean, I, I don't know how one is supposed to react to that. 101 00:07:19,825 --> 00:07:23,043 I feel the way I reacted to, which made sense at the time, 102 00:07:23,078 --> 00:07:24,077 was, you know, my parents were like, 103 00:07:24,129 --> 00:07:25,662 "Look, there's nothing we can do, 104 00:07:25,714 --> 00:07:27,414 and we just don't talk about it, whatever." 105 00:07:27,416 --> 00:07:32,252 And I don't blame them for doing that or not doing anything. 106 00:07:32,304 --> 00:07:36,840 But I'm not happy about the fact that it's 30 years later, 107 00:07:36,892 --> 00:07:41,094 and there's a Berlin Wall of silence. 108 00:07:41,146 --> 00:07:43,847 Unfortunately, there is no haven from 109 00:07:43,899 --> 00:07:47,768 what's going on with my brother, 110 00:07:47,770 --> 00:07:50,270 as it's in the papers quite frequently. 111 00:07:50,272 --> 00:07:52,990 But it's not something that we discuss, 112 00:07:53,025 --> 00:07:56,610 and not something that we have any involvement in. 113 00:08:00,165 --> 00:08:03,250 I knew as soon as the verdict came down in Galveston 114 00:08:03,285 --> 00:08:05,786 that I couldn't get the closure 115 00:08:05,788 --> 00:08:08,919 that I wanted for Kathleen's family. 116 00:08:10,593 --> 00:08:13,260 That then put it back on the front burner 117 00:08:13,295 --> 00:08:15,128 in terms of, "OK, guys. 118 00:08:15,130 --> 00:08:17,347 "Let's regroup, find out what we've got. 119 00:08:17,383 --> 00:08:19,633 "Find out if we can get anything else, 120 00:08:19,635 --> 00:08:21,685 and where we go from here." 121 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,304 We really wanted to try to figure out if there was anyone 122 00:08:24,356 --> 00:08:27,474 from in the family who'd break and give us something. 123 00:08:27,476 --> 00:08:30,277 One of the things that always bothered me about the case, 124 00:08:30,312 --> 00:08:33,614 I mean, here is Seymour Durst, one of the 5 most powerful 125 00:08:33,649 --> 00:08:35,983 real estate people in the city, 126 00:08:36,035 --> 00:08:38,285 and his daughter-in-law goes missing. 127 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,372 And there's not one hint of it in the police files, 128 00:08:42,408 --> 00:08:44,658 that this is a big, gigantic case. 129 00:08:46,745 --> 00:08:49,630 There's no interviews with anybody from Bob's family 130 00:08:49,665 --> 00:08:53,467 in the original case folder, which is kind of strange. 131 00:08:53,502 --> 00:08:55,419 You know, if Seymour Durst is worth 132 00:08:55,471 --> 00:08:57,971 a couple hundred million dollars, you want to find out 133 00:08:58,007 --> 00:09:00,173 what he thinks about his daughter-in-law missing. 134 00:09:02,678 --> 00:09:04,227 Was your dad engaged in any way 135 00:09:04,263 --> 00:09:05,429 when Kathie disappeared? 136 00:09:05,481 --> 00:09:06,813 Did he do anything? 137 00:09:08,734 --> 00:09:13,070 Oh, he, he, um, 138 00:09:13,105 --> 00:09:17,024 really, really wanted to leave it to me. 139 00:09:17,076 --> 00:09:20,193 Do you think that, that Seymour ever thought 140 00:09:20,245 --> 00:09:21,745 that you might have had something to do 141 00:09:21,780 --> 00:09:22,863 with her disappearance? 142 00:09:22,915 --> 00:09:24,364 I haven't the faintest idea. 143 00:09:24,366 --> 00:09:27,117 I highly, highly, highly doubt it, 144 00:09:27,169 --> 00:09:31,171 but Seymour's thoughts were inscrutable. 145 00:09:38,764 --> 00:09:43,884 10, 11 weeks after the case began, I received a call. 146 00:09:43,886 --> 00:09:49,806 And a male voice on the other end, "Hi, Mike." 147 00:09:49,858 --> 00:09:53,643 And I said, "Who's this?" "This is Nick." 148 00:09:53,696 --> 00:09:56,863 And I said, "Nick who?" 149 00:09:56,899 --> 00:09:58,648 And he says, "Nick Scoppetta." 150 00:10:00,119 --> 00:10:02,619 "Bob Durst, you know, really appreciates 151 00:10:02,654 --> 00:10:05,872 "the work that you're doing and is very satisfied. 152 00:10:05,908 --> 00:10:08,792 "But, you know, Bob is a very busy guy, 153 00:10:08,827 --> 00:10:12,045 "and that I would appreciate that all, 154 00:10:12,081 --> 00:10:17,584 all other communication going forward you do through me." 155 00:10:17,636 --> 00:10:20,087 And that's the classic lawyering up. 156 00:10:20,139 --> 00:10:24,591 Now, if you've got, you know, nothing to hide, 157 00:10:24,643 --> 00:10:27,511 and you've dropped your wife off at the train station, 158 00:10:27,563 --> 00:10:31,014 why would you go out and hire a criminal defense attorney? 159 00:10:32,901 --> 00:10:34,601 Nick Scoppetta was your lawyer 160 00:10:34,603 --> 00:10:39,272 to defend you from the potential of accusations. 161 00:10:39,274 --> 00:10:40,774 He was my lawyer, but he was 162 00:10:40,776 --> 00:10:42,359 supposed to find Kathie Durst. 163 00:10:42,411 --> 00:10:44,161 I mean, if he could find Kathie Durst, 164 00:10:44,196 --> 00:10:45,946 there'd be no accusations. 165 00:10:47,116 --> 00:10:48,949 Was he supposed to find Kathie? 166 00:10:48,951 --> 00:10:52,869 Yes. It was the whole intent of it. 167 00:10:52,921 --> 00:10:54,504 Do you think that Nick did work 168 00:10:54,540 --> 00:10:56,456 to try to find Kathie? 169 00:10:56,508 --> 00:10:59,793 Yes! He brought in a private investigator 170 00:10:59,845 --> 00:11:02,546 who used to be a cop in, or used to be 171 00:11:02,598 --> 00:11:05,465 a big cop in that precinct. 172 00:11:05,517 --> 00:11:07,050 What was the name? Ed Wright. 173 00:11:09,721 --> 00:11:10,804 Hello. 174 00:11:10,963 --> 00:11:15,468 I'm looking for Edward Wright, that was a private detective back in the 1980s. 175 00:11:17,428 --> 00:11:22,266 No, I was chief investigator of New York State Organized Crime Task Force, 176 00:11:22,350 --> 00:11:23,726 '82 to '94. 177 00:11:23,809 --> 00:11:25,644 Something tells me you're my man. 178 00:11:25,728 --> 00:11:28,939 I think you might have done some private work for Nick Scoppetta? 179 00:11:30,191 --> 00:11:31,192 Yeah. 180 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,737 Nick Scoppetta was an assistant DA. 181 00:11:34,820 --> 00:11:37,365 He had gone out into private practice, 182 00:11:37,448 --> 00:11:40,993 and, lo and behold, when Kathie disappeared 183 00:11:41,077 --> 00:11:44,663 and her family members were pointing fingers, 184 00:11:44,747 --> 00:11:49,001 Robert's father who was, you know, a millionaire many times over, 185 00:11:49,085 --> 00:11:51,545 contacted him to represent Robert. 186 00:11:52,505 --> 00:11:56,550 So, Nick contacted me to do some work, and that's what I did. 187 00:11:57,736 --> 00:12:00,570 Ed Wright was able to get lots of stuff from the police. 188 00:12:00,606 --> 00:12:03,490 He knew the police. The police liked him. 189 00:12:03,525 --> 00:12:05,525 He was able to get information 190 00:12:05,527 --> 00:12:08,695 that was theoretically unavailable. 191 00:12:08,697 --> 00:12:11,498 Who thought what? Who said what? 192 00:12:12,483 --> 00:12:14,610 Well, I was wondering if we could talk about it a little bit. 193 00:12:14,693 --> 00:12:16,070 I mean, you were there back then 194 00:12:16,153 --> 00:12:19,698 and you had access to Bob at a time that was critical. 195 00:12:19,782 --> 00:12:24,495 Yeah, but, at the time, I was working for Nick Scoppetta, who was representing him. 196 00:12:24,912 --> 00:12:28,958 So, anything that he had indicated to me during my interview, 197 00:12:29,041 --> 00:12:33,838 you know, it's privileged, same as whatever he said to Scoppetta. 198 00:12:49,655 --> 00:12:51,738 It's titled "Discrepancies in the Recollection 199 00:12:51,790 --> 00:12:53,790 of Various Principals." 200 00:12:53,825 --> 00:12:57,744 It's Ed Wright's view of where there are inconsistencies 201 00:12:57,746 --> 00:13:02,666 in his own client's accounting of what, what went on 202 00:13:02,718 --> 00:13:04,167 the night his wife disappeared. 203 00:13:05,888 --> 00:13:07,837 - Good evening. - She talked on the telephone 204 00:13:07,890 --> 00:13:10,340 with her husband, then she vanished. 205 00:13:10,392 --> 00:13:13,677 And no one has seen Kathleen Durst since. 206 00:13:17,766 --> 00:13:20,517 This particular report indicates how Bob Durst 207 00:13:20,569 --> 00:13:22,986 had changed his story to his own investigator 208 00:13:23,021 --> 00:13:28,074 about where he called Kathie on the night of January 31. 209 00:13:28,110 --> 00:13:30,026 In the first interview with Wright, 210 00:13:30,078 --> 00:13:33,697 Mr. Durst stated that he called from his own house. 211 00:13:33,749 --> 00:13:35,749 On the second interview, he told Mr. Wright 212 00:13:35,784 --> 00:13:37,183 that he'd made the call to his wife 213 00:13:37,219 --> 00:13:38,818 from a payphone in a restaurant. 214 00:13:40,656 --> 00:13:43,890 He later on stated that he had called Kathie from a payphone 215 00:13:43,926 --> 00:13:45,625 between the house and the train station. 216 00:13:47,262 --> 00:13:48,845 He was kind of all over the board. 217 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,516 Once Wright was telling these people 218 00:13:53,552 --> 00:13:57,687 that there's deception on the part of their son and brother, 219 00:13:57,723 --> 00:14:00,390 I would think that behind the scenes there was a great deal of 220 00:14:00,442 --> 00:14:02,976 alarm concerning this matter. 221 00:14:05,147 --> 00:14:07,030 Police are satisfied that Mrs. Durst 222 00:14:07,065 --> 00:14:09,983 made it to the couple's apartment on Riverside Drive. 223 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,155 During our investigation, the doorman told us he saw her 224 00:14:15,157 --> 00:14:17,991 arrive home that Sunday evening and go to her apartment. 225 00:14:19,962 --> 00:14:22,212 But in an interview conducted by Mr. Wright, 226 00:14:22,247 --> 00:14:25,165 the doorman told him that actually he didn't see her. 227 00:14:30,579 --> 00:14:31,838 He would have been the guy to bring her up. 228 00:14:31,890 --> 00:14:35,258 And if he didn't see her, she wasn't there. 229 00:14:43,735 --> 00:14:46,736 The Durst Family... His father or brothers... 230 00:14:46,772 --> 00:14:49,189 Never offered to help us, or never said, 231 00:14:49,191 --> 00:14:51,608 "Look, we have a private investigator involved in it. 232 00:14:51,660 --> 00:14:53,660 Anything he finds he'll share with you." 233 00:14:56,365 --> 00:14:58,415 They just further backed away. 234 00:15:00,609 --> 00:15:04,488 There came a time when I was mutually terminated. 235 00:15:05,531 --> 00:15:07,992 We decided it was best for them to go another way. 236 00:15:08,534 --> 00:15:09,702 But that's about, you know... 237 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,622 At this juncture, I'd be uncomfortable discussing anything else about it. 238 00:15:14,123 --> 00:15:17,001 From reading your report, I can understand why that is. 239 00:15:17,543 --> 00:15:19,003 Okay. 240 00:15:25,259 --> 00:15:26,859 Were there five meetings with Ed Wright? 241 00:15:26,885 --> 00:15:28,445 Were there ten meetings with Ed Wright? 242 00:15:29,231 --> 00:15:31,648 Me? I must have had 10 or a dozen meetings, 243 00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:33,400 including the ones in our office 244 00:15:33,452 --> 00:15:35,318 where Douglas was usually there, 245 00:15:35,370 --> 00:15:37,954 and the ones in, in Nick's office. 246 00:15:38,981 --> 00:15:41,317 So, Doug was probably in on how many of them? 247 00:15:41,417 --> 00:15:42,909 5, 6. Like that. 248 00:15:47,299 --> 00:15:49,249 I think at this point if they admit that they knew 249 00:15:49,251 --> 00:15:52,335 anything back in 1982, makes them complicit. 250 00:15:52,387 --> 00:15:54,671 And they don't want that shame to come on them. 251 00:15:54,723 --> 00:15:57,257 "Oh, I didn't say anything then because I was afraid of..." 252 00:15:57,259 --> 00:15:58,725 Whatever, whatever the deal is, 253 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,510 they just can't come forward now. 254 00:16:00,562 --> 00:16:02,345 And I don't, I don't expect them to. 255 00:16:09,337 --> 00:16:10,804 It's upsetting to think that 256 00:16:10,839 --> 00:16:13,740 because you're living up there on Mt. Olympus, 257 00:16:13,775 --> 00:16:18,611 it's not necessary to talk to regular people 258 00:16:18,613 --> 00:16:24,367 about extraordinary problems. 259 00:16:24,419 --> 00:16:27,287 You know, a disappearance of a woman, it's a tragedy. 260 00:16:27,339 --> 00:16:28,588 It's a trauma. 261 00:16:28,623 --> 00:16:30,457 It's like a wound, you know. 262 00:16:30,509 --> 00:16:33,543 Whatever I'm going through as a member of the Durst family, 263 00:16:33,595 --> 00:16:34,627 I can't imagine what it's like 264 00:16:34,679 --> 00:16:36,463 to be a member of the McCormack family, 265 00:16:36,515 --> 00:16:37,881 my Aunt Kathie's family. 266 00:16:41,970 --> 00:16:45,271 She disappeared two weeks after I was born. 267 00:16:45,307 --> 00:16:49,058 So, I wasn't really aware of the first, 268 00:16:49,111 --> 00:16:53,480 first years of this tragedy, when it was most raw. 269 00:16:53,482 --> 00:16:55,865 You know, I only came kind of to an understanding of it 270 00:16:55,901 --> 00:16:59,486 when I was an early teenager... 12, 13 years old... 271 00:16:59,488 --> 00:17:04,657 When people started remarking on our physical resemblance. 272 00:17:04,659 --> 00:17:06,993 I mean, I haven't seen this. Oh, my God. 273 00:17:09,247 --> 00:17:10,580 This could be me. 274 00:17:12,667 --> 00:17:13,917 Yeah, that's incredible. 275 00:17:17,589 --> 00:17:19,005 It's chilling for me. 276 00:17:22,477 --> 00:17:25,178 You know that fact that, you know, my mom, 277 00:17:25,230 --> 00:17:27,180 who was a contemporary of Seymour Durst, 278 00:17:27,182 --> 00:17:29,516 never even got a courtesy call to say, 279 00:17:29,518 --> 00:17:30,850 "How are you doing? How can we help?" 280 00:17:30,902 --> 00:17:33,153 has always stuck in my craw. 281 00:17:33,188 --> 00:17:37,190 And I never got a call from Wendy or Tommy or, or Doug. 282 00:17:37,192 --> 00:17:39,275 I didn't expect a call from Bob. 283 00:17:39,327 --> 00:17:42,162 It's been like, you know, just an ignored family. 284 00:17:45,867 --> 00:17:49,118 I wish I could say that it, it brought everybody closer, 285 00:17:49,171 --> 00:17:53,206 but I don't think that would be the truth. 286 00:17:53,258 --> 00:17:57,177 You know, I think... It was this thing 287 00:17:57,212 --> 00:17:59,179 because there was no closure. 288 00:17:59,214 --> 00:18:02,215 It's not, it's not like losing someone and knowing why, 289 00:18:02,267 --> 00:18:05,969 where you can all rally around a common understanding 290 00:18:06,021 --> 00:18:10,690 or a common emotion or range of emotions. 291 00:18:10,725 --> 00:18:14,611 This was so, everything was so shrouded in mystery. 292 00:18:14,646 --> 00:18:20,066 There was so much anger, and no opportunity to truly grieve. 293 00:18:20,068 --> 00:18:23,736 And I think that maybe missing that grieving process 294 00:18:23,738 --> 00:18:24,954 was hard on the family. 295 00:18:24,990 --> 00:18:28,575 I mean, I think, I think that's why it's still, 296 00:18:28,627 --> 00:18:29,787 we're still talking about it. 297 00:18:31,278 --> 00:18:32,863 How long ago did Kathie disappear? 298 00:18:33,331 --> 00:18:35,498 30 years 299 00:18:35,550 --> 00:18:38,084 as of January 31 of this year. 300 00:18:38,660 --> 00:18:39,870 And what was that like? 301 00:18:39,953 --> 00:18:41,772 Did you do anything on January 31st? 302 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,723 Yeah, I went to mass that morning. 303 00:18:43,758 --> 00:18:45,925 I remembered Kathie. 304 00:18:45,977 --> 00:18:47,760 And actually, I spoke in front of 305 00:18:47,812 --> 00:18:49,596 the congregation that was there. 306 00:18:49,648 --> 00:18:51,681 And it had prayers said for Kathie, 307 00:18:51,733 --> 00:18:53,983 and we also had prayers said for Bob. 308 00:18:55,770 --> 00:18:58,154 For Kathie, for her peace. 309 00:18:58,189 --> 00:18:59,606 And for Bob, for his conscience. 310 00:19:05,664 --> 00:19:08,531 Maybe something will come of this, huh? 311 00:19:08,583 --> 00:19:11,451 Wouldn't it be nice? You never know. 312 00:19:11,503 --> 00:19:15,955 You read those, "Years later, they found out this 313 00:19:16,007 --> 00:19:17,790 and they found out that." 314 00:19:17,842 --> 00:19:19,125 And there might be somebody out there 315 00:19:19,177 --> 00:19:22,595 that knows something and is keeping quiet. So... 316 00:19:27,302 --> 00:19:28,635 I'd started to write this essay 317 00:19:28,687 --> 00:19:32,472 about my Aunt Kathie's disappearance as a way to heal. 318 00:19:32,474 --> 00:19:34,023 I forget if I had the idea initially 319 00:19:34,059 --> 00:19:35,692 or somebody in my family may have suggested 320 00:19:35,727 --> 00:19:39,145 I could talk to Douglas to get his take. 321 00:19:39,197 --> 00:19:42,031 The way it ended up, it was a deal. 322 00:19:42,067 --> 00:19:43,616 That's what it was. 323 00:19:43,652 --> 00:19:45,985 I get to call him on the phone for 15 minutes. 324 00:19:45,987 --> 00:19:47,654 "No, he wants to email." 325 00:19:47,706 --> 00:19:49,155 "No, it's 10 questions." 326 00:19:49,207 --> 00:19:50,657 "No, it's 5." "No, it's 3." 327 00:19:50,709 --> 00:19:51,824 And I think that's what it wound up at. 328 00:19:51,826 --> 00:19:53,626 There was 3 questions. 329 00:19:53,986 --> 00:19:56,363 So, tell me each question and the response. 330 00:19:56,414 --> 00:19:59,499 I think Question Number One was 331 00:19:59,551 --> 00:20:04,887 "Do, uh... What memories do you have of Aunt Kathie?" 332 00:20:04,923 --> 00:20:09,976 And his answer was "My memories of Kathie are my memories." 333 00:20:10,011 --> 00:20:11,761 Question Number Two I believe was 334 00:20:11,813 --> 00:20:14,013 "Have you seen the movie All Good Things, 335 00:20:14,015 --> 00:20:15,898 "or are you aware that those filmmakers 336 00:20:15,934 --> 00:20:17,900 are making a documentary?" 337 00:20:17,936 --> 00:20:21,187 And his answer was "No." 338 00:20:21,189 --> 00:20:23,323 And then the third question was 339 00:20:23,358 --> 00:20:25,908 "Do you think that the Westchester D.A. 340 00:20:25,944 --> 00:20:29,996 will reopen the case on my Aunt Kathie?" 341 00:20:30,031 --> 00:20:34,584 And his answer was "I don't have any knowledge 342 00:20:34,619 --> 00:20:36,869 of how the Westchester D.A. operates" 343 00:20:36,921 --> 00:20:39,422 or something like that, and that was it. 344 00:20:42,159 --> 00:20:43,719 Good afternoon, Douglas Durst's office. 345 00:20:43,785 --> 00:20:45,746 Hi, it's Andrew Jarecki calling for Douglas. 346 00:20:46,330 --> 00:20:47,414 He is on the other line. 347 00:20:47,497 --> 00:20:48,749 May I have him give you a call back? 348 00:20:48,832 --> 00:20:50,832 Sure. - And may I let him know what it's regarding? 349 00:20:50,876 --> 00:20:52,794 Yeah, he knows we're doing a film about... 350 00:20:52,878 --> 00:20:53,921 Robert Durst. 351 00:20:54,504 --> 00:20:55,505 Oh, I see. 352 00:20:55,589 --> 00:20:56,629 Okay, I will let him know. 353 00:20:56,673 --> 00:20:57,841 - Thank you. - Thank you. Bye. 354 00:21:01,803 --> 00:21:03,722 - Hello. - Hello, is this Andrew? 355 00:21:03,805 --> 00:21:05,849 - It is. - Hi, it's Jordan Barowitz. 356 00:21:05,933 --> 00:21:08,226 You called Douglas Durst. I'm returning his call. 357 00:21:08,352 --> 00:21:09,770 I did call Douglas Durst. 358 00:21:09,853 --> 00:21:10,938 How can I help you? 359 00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:12,731 You called him. 360 00:21:13,690 --> 00:21:14,691 Precisely. 361 00:21:15,192 --> 00:21:16,193 Yes. 362 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,656 I'm returning that call on his behalf. 363 00:21:20,739 --> 00:21:22,240 Can I help you with something? 364 00:21:22,324 --> 00:21:24,724 Yeah, I wanted to talk to him about the film that I'm making. 365 00:21:25,202 --> 00:21:27,829 Okay, Douglas has no interest in speaking with you. 366 00:21:27,913 --> 00:21:30,540 Is there something you want me to relay to him? 367 00:21:31,208 --> 00:21:32,501 Douglas is a character in the film. 368 00:21:32,584 --> 00:21:33,752 He's certainly an element of it, 369 00:21:33,835 --> 00:21:36,463 and I want to make sure that he has the chance to talk to me about it 370 00:21:36,546 --> 00:21:37,798 before we complete the film. 371 00:21:39,549 --> 00:21:40,759 Okay. All right. 372 00:21:41,218 --> 00:21:42,219 Thank you. 373 00:21:47,942 --> 00:21:50,076 We're going to see Bob Durst's brother Douglas. 374 00:21:51,279 --> 00:21:54,447 See what we can learn face-to-face 375 00:21:54,449 --> 00:21:57,333 by getting to know the man a bit. 376 00:21:57,368 --> 00:21:58,918 Have you ever met him before? 377 00:21:58,953 --> 00:22:00,119 I've never met him before. 378 00:22:00,171 --> 00:22:03,790 I've seen him around a few social occasions. 379 00:22:03,792 --> 00:22:07,126 But we're going to go to a dinner in his honor. 380 00:22:20,007 --> 00:22:23,051 Douglas Durst is the patriarch of the Dursts. 381 00:22:24,344 --> 00:22:27,431 The Dursts are the symbol, in New York and nationally, 382 00:22:27,514 --> 00:22:31,059 of family values, accomplishment and success. 383 00:22:32,269 --> 00:22:36,064 So, on behalf of the board of Children's Rights, please welcome Douglas Durst, 384 00:22:36,481 --> 00:22:40,527 the 2011 recipient of the Children's Rights Champion Award. 385 00:22:46,450 --> 00:22:49,119 Thank you, Richard, I must say that... 386 00:22:49,786 --> 00:22:53,165 the word "patriarch" is hard for me to digest. 387 00:22:54,750 --> 00:22:58,128 I'm still a hippie at Berkeley, so... 388 00:22:59,230 --> 00:23:00,346 Can I interrupt you? 389 00:23:00,348 --> 00:23:01,931 - First I want to congratulate you. - Thank you. 390 00:23:01,983 --> 00:23:03,983 Then I want to tell you I'm Andrew Jarecki. 391 00:23:04,018 --> 00:23:05,151 Oh, you are. 392 00:23:05,186 --> 00:23:07,320 I mean you no harm. I'm, I'm interested in, 393 00:23:07,355 --> 00:23:08,689 you know, at some point, us getting a chance to talk. 394 00:23:08,697 --> 00:23:10,491 Well, you're not successful. 395 00:23:10,541 --> 00:23:12,191 Well, I've tried. It's not my fault. 396 00:23:12,193 --> 00:23:13,192 You know, I'd be happy to come 397 00:23:13,194 --> 00:23:14,360 sit down and talk at some point 398 00:23:14,362 --> 00:23:17,363 if you're, you know, so motivated. 399 00:23:17,365 --> 00:23:18,831 Off the record, or, you know, 400 00:23:18,867 --> 00:23:20,387 just sort of say what we're working on. 401 00:23:22,069 --> 00:23:22,970 All right. 402 00:23:22,337 --> 00:23:23,452 That's my idea. 403 00:23:24,613 --> 00:23:26,673 Perhaps we could do that at some point. 404 00:23:26,674 --> 00:23:27,707 Well, anyway, congratulations. 405 00:23:27,759 --> 00:23:28,791 I wanted to just say "hi." 406 00:23:52,734 --> 00:23:55,067 You know, it's as if Doug has become 407 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,404 the eldest son of the Durst family. 408 00:23:58,456 --> 00:24:01,707 It must be very strange for Bob to not exist. 409 00:24:01,743 --> 00:24:04,377 You know? For Bob to be this guy who... 410 00:24:04,412 --> 00:24:07,246 I mean, it gives you a little of an idea of why, you know, 411 00:24:07,248 --> 00:24:08,488 why he wants to be in our film. 412 00:24:14,005 --> 00:24:15,588 I worked here my whole time. 413 00:24:16,289 --> 00:24:17,541 This was the building where you worked? 414 00:24:17,592 --> 00:24:20,977 The whole time... '74 to '92-ish. 415 00:24:21,012 --> 00:24:23,429 Wow. 416 00:24:23,481 --> 00:24:25,681 We had the 32nd floor. 417 00:24:29,845 --> 00:24:31,888 You don't seem to have a happy memory of that. 418 00:24:31,940 --> 00:24:34,273 Well, you know, a long time ago now. 419 00:24:34,325 --> 00:24:37,693 But that's where I spent those 18 years. 420 00:24:37,745 --> 00:24:38,995 Yeah, you know, you can't set up 421 00:24:39,030 --> 00:24:41,330 any tripods on the property without, uh... 422 00:24:41,366 --> 00:24:43,199 - OK, we have no tripods. - OK, OK. 423 00:24:43,251 --> 00:24:44,200 Do you, can you tell me 424 00:24:44,252 --> 00:24:45,701 where you work, do you work here? 425 00:24:45,753 --> 00:24:49,372 Yeah, I work for, I'm security for the building. I patrol... 426 00:24:49,424 --> 00:24:50,790 - Who owns the building? - Huh? 427 00:24:50,842 --> 00:24:51,842 Who owns the building? 428 00:24:51,876 --> 00:24:53,009 The building is Royal Realty. 429 00:24:53,044 --> 00:24:54,427 A company called Royal Realty. 430 00:24:54,462 --> 00:24:55,711 They own the building. 431 00:24:55,763 --> 00:24:57,513 But that, the "D" on your thing, is that...? 432 00:24:57,548 --> 00:24:59,682 Yes, yes. Why, why, who are you with? 433 00:24:59,717 --> 00:25:01,634 We're actually making a film about Robert Durst. 434 00:25:01,636 --> 00:25:04,136 Oh, um, I'm, I'm not authorized 435 00:25:04,138 --> 00:25:06,138 to give you any information at this time. 436 00:25:06,190 --> 00:25:07,940 You know? OK. 437 00:25:07,976 --> 00:25:08,941 Thank you very much, sir. 438 00:25:08,977 --> 00:25:10,393 OK, Doug. All right. 439 00:25:10,445 --> 00:25:12,311 But it's not a secret that that's a "D" for Durst... 440 00:25:12,313 --> 00:25:13,479 OK, I understand that. 441 00:25:13,481 --> 00:25:15,731 But I'm not authorized to give any information. 442 00:25:15,783 --> 00:25:17,733 I don't want to put you in an uncomfortable position. 443 00:25:17,785 --> 00:25:18,901 All right. Thank you. 444 00:25:24,826 --> 00:25:27,793 Well, I'm here with Andrew and 4 other people 445 00:25:27,829 --> 00:25:29,879 being filmed in Times Square. 446 00:25:29,914 --> 00:25:32,131 And as soon as we got here, 447 00:25:32,166 --> 00:25:35,968 immediately Douglas' security people were there. 448 00:25:36,004 --> 00:25:37,336 Make sure you get all the profile. 449 00:25:39,140 --> 00:25:40,640 What are you following us around for? 450 00:25:43,144 --> 00:25:44,894 When they saw all the cameras, 451 00:25:44,929 --> 00:25:48,347 they all were on the telephone calling whomever. 452 00:25:48,399 --> 00:25:50,766 There must have been 6 of them. 453 00:25:50,818 --> 00:25:54,020 And they, uh, watched us, and Andrew filmed them. 454 00:25:54,072 --> 00:25:56,739 And that's how I spent the last hour and a half. 455 00:26:02,196 --> 00:26:04,280 How do you feel about your brother Douglas Durst? 456 00:26:04,332 --> 00:26:05,915 I don't get along with him. 457 00:26:05,950 --> 00:26:07,083 Why not? 458 00:26:07,118 --> 00:26:08,701 I'd have to go back 459 00:26:08,753 --> 00:26:10,336 to when we were 5. 460 00:26:13,374 --> 00:26:15,041 Let's go back to when you were 5. 461 00:26:15,043 --> 00:26:16,125 Why don't you get along with him? 462 00:26:16,177 --> 00:26:18,044 We, we, 463 00:26:18,046 --> 00:26:20,930 I, I think I remember he stole my toys. 464 00:26:27,555 --> 00:26:28,888 We're talking about a sibling rivalry 465 00:26:28,940 --> 00:26:32,224 that's quite advanced in terms of who's going to run 466 00:26:32,226 --> 00:26:33,893 a billion-dollar business. 467 00:26:33,895 --> 00:26:36,062 And the eldest doesn't win that, 468 00:26:36,114 --> 00:26:41,400 and it goes to, you know, the, the second eldest. 469 00:26:41,402 --> 00:26:42,402 And, um... 470 00:26:48,993 --> 00:26:52,712 You could argue that Bob's failure to be chosen 471 00:26:52,747 --> 00:26:54,547 to take on the family business 472 00:26:54,582 --> 00:26:58,417 was a betrayal of biblical proportions. 473 00:27:03,808 --> 00:27:04,590 Did I tell you that I went 474 00:27:04,642 --> 00:27:06,926 to his Katonah house? 475 00:27:06,928 --> 00:27:08,511 Uh, I think I read that you did, 476 00:27:08,563 --> 00:27:11,680 but I didn't, I don't remember if you told me. 477 00:27:11,733 --> 00:27:15,067 I was driving around these places I grew up, 478 00:27:15,103 --> 00:27:16,435 my family places, and... 479 00:27:16,437 --> 00:27:17,520 Oh, it was in the newspaper then. 480 00:27:17,572 --> 00:27:20,022 - Yeah, yeah. - But, but, but 481 00:27:20,074 --> 00:27:22,191 I really went... My plan... 482 00:27:22,243 --> 00:27:23,659 Don't say it. OK? 483 00:27:23,694 --> 00:27:24,994 I'm definitely not going to say it. 484 00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:26,612 OK. But you told me what your plans were, 485 00:27:26,614 --> 00:27:29,865 and I told you that I knew, I had a feeling, I suspected. 486 00:27:29,917 --> 00:27:33,786 Remember? If I suspected, he knew it, too. 487 00:27:35,706 --> 00:27:37,339 While Bob was on the run, 488 00:27:37,375 --> 00:27:42,461 he pulled into the driveway of his brother's home in Katonah. 489 00:27:42,513 --> 00:27:44,463 He had two guns in his car. 490 00:27:45,767 --> 00:27:49,435 I think that convinced Douglas more than ever 491 00:27:49,470 --> 00:27:50,970 that his brother was out to kill him. 492 00:27:54,776 --> 00:27:56,642 The press reported that you had hired a bodyguard 493 00:27:56,694 --> 00:27:58,194 to protect yourself against Robert Durst. 494 00:27:58,229 --> 00:27:59,945 Is that true? 495 00:27:59,981 --> 00:28:01,147 That is true, yes. 496 00:28:13,211 --> 00:28:17,329 Uh... Ridiculous. 497 00:28:19,550 --> 00:28:21,834 I think it's absolutely ridiculous. 498 00:28:23,671 --> 00:28:26,505 Right here. I want you to photograph me 499 00:28:26,507 --> 00:28:27,840 in front of Douglas's house. 500 00:28:27,842 --> 00:28:29,809 Now that I know that it's Douglas's house. 501 00:28:34,015 --> 00:28:35,181 Uh. 502 00:28:38,152 --> 00:28:39,318 This is it. 503 00:28:40,571 --> 00:28:41,687 How strange is this? 504 00:28:43,024 --> 00:28:45,074 I mean, I think he's not going to be satisfied unless 505 00:28:45,109 --> 00:28:47,493 somebody comes and tells him to move. 506 00:29:04,378 --> 00:29:05,794 I'm finished, fellas. 507 00:29:13,387 --> 00:29:15,554 When did you first meet Robert Durst? 508 00:29:15,556 --> 00:29:20,309 Heh. I think I met him in 1988. 509 00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:24,563 At the time, was he married? 510 00:29:24,565 --> 00:29:27,783 Heh. That's a very tricky question, as you know. 511 00:29:27,818 --> 00:29:29,235 But let's say he was. 512 00:29:37,161 --> 00:29:41,997 In the fall of 2000, had you heard reports that 513 00:29:42,049 --> 00:29:45,134 the Westchester District Attorney was investigating 514 00:29:45,169 --> 00:29:48,754 the disappearance of Mr. Durst's first wife? 515 00:29:48,806 --> 00:29:49,922 Yes. 516 00:29:52,810 --> 00:29:54,894 We know that Bobby found out that Kathie's case 517 00:29:54,929 --> 00:29:58,180 was going to be reopened October 31 of 2000. 518 00:29:59,433 --> 00:30:02,484 From there, he went into a defensive mode. 519 00:30:04,105 --> 00:30:08,157 The next day, he made a purchase for a, a jewelry purchase, 520 00:30:08,192 --> 00:30:10,409 which I believe is the engagement ring for Debrah. 521 00:30:17,752 --> 00:30:18,951 So, now, you know, 522 00:30:18,953 --> 00:30:20,369 he has the husband-wife privilege. 523 00:30:20,421 --> 00:30:22,955 And that's exactly when he signed over 524 00:30:22,957 --> 00:30:24,055 all the power of attorney. 525 00:30:28,179 --> 00:30:30,346 A lot of people believe 526 00:30:30,381 --> 00:30:32,798 that Debbie knows Bob's secrets, 527 00:30:32,850 --> 00:30:34,800 whatever they may be. 528 00:30:36,220 --> 00:30:38,304 Did you discuss the reopening of the investigation 529 00:30:38,356 --> 00:30:40,389 with Mr. Durst, before you were married? 530 00:30:42,476 --> 00:30:44,476 Yes. 531 00:30:44,478 --> 00:30:47,146 What did he tell you about that? 532 00:30:47,148 --> 00:30:49,565 Um, I'm going to object to anything that goes 533 00:30:49,617 --> 00:30:51,784 to the spousal privilege in terms of communications. 534 00:30:51,819 --> 00:30:55,120 You want to ask her about facts that she knows, 535 00:30:55,156 --> 00:30:56,121 the witness can answer that. But... 536 00:30:56,157 --> 00:31:00,125 My question specifically framed 537 00:31:00,161 --> 00:31:02,077 going to before they were married. 538 00:31:02,129 --> 00:31:03,212 OK. 539 00:31:16,227 --> 00:31:21,981 I guess that what he told me was that he was scared. 540 00:31:22,016 --> 00:31:23,182 Scared of what? 541 00:31:24,986 --> 00:31:27,653 Of Jeanine Pirro opening up the investigation. 542 00:31:28,689 --> 00:31:29,855 Concerned. 543 00:31:31,275 --> 00:31:34,493 I spoke with his wife Debrah Charatan. 544 00:31:34,528 --> 00:31:36,996 She called her lawyer almost immediately. 545 00:31:37,031 --> 00:31:41,450 Uh, she was somewhat, um, polite. 546 00:31:41,502 --> 00:31:44,086 But I think she wanted to learn more from us 547 00:31:44,121 --> 00:31:46,922 than she was willing to tell us. 548 00:31:46,957 --> 00:31:49,208 Lovely woman. Elegant. Smart. 549 00:31:51,045 --> 00:31:54,296 Couldn't remember where Robert Durst was around Christmastime, 550 00:31:54,348 --> 00:31:56,382 even though they were newlyweds. 551 00:31:58,719 --> 00:32:01,103 Did you learn around Christmas of 2000 552 00:32:01,138 --> 00:32:04,106 that Susan Berman had been killed? 553 00:32:04,141 --> 00:32:06,392 - Yes. - How did you learn that? 554 00:32:06,444 --> 00:32:09,278 I was driving in a taxicab, 555 00:32:09,313 --> 00:32:12,364 on my way home to the city, to the apartment, 556 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:13,565 and I heard it on the radio. 557 00:32:39,510 --> 00:32:42,928 At that time, was Mr. Durst 558 00:32:42,930 --> 00:32:44,480 in residence at your house? 559 00:32:50,988 --> 00:32:52,237 I don't think so. 560 00:32:54,775 --> 00:33:00,028 I've never been able to put Bobby in Los Angeles 561 00:33:00,081 --> 00:33:01,580 at the time of the murder. 562 00:33:01,615 --> 00:33:02,948 I could put him in California. 563 00:33:05,202 --> 00:33:06,919 We spoke to people out in California, 564 00:33:06,954 --> 00:33:09,288 and at least two people told us that Susan had said 565 00:33:09,290 --> 00:33:12,291 Bob was going to come and visit some time around the holidays, 566 00:33:12,343 --> 00:33:15,094 and she was, she was looking forward to it. 567 00:33:15,129 --> 00:33:19,047 In fact, we found out that Bob went out to Northern California 568 00:33:19,100 --> 00:33:21,467 sometime close to Susan's murder. 569 00:33:27,725 --> 00:33:30,225 Now, what was in Trinidad, California? 570 00:33:30,277 --> 00:33:33,061 Oh, it was very rural, very pretty. 571 00:33:33,114 --> 00:33:35,147 I had lived there off and on. 572 00:33:38,369 --> 00:33:40,409 The police, I think, made a big deal out of the idea 573 00:33:40,454 --> 00:33:44,239 that you had gone to California around the time 574 00:33:44,291 --> 00:33:46,742 that Susan Berman was murdered. 575 00:33:46,794 --> 00:33:50,245 I, I got there a long time before December 23. 576 00:33:50,297 --> 00:33:51,914 A long time before Christmas. 577 00:33:54,668 --> 00:34:01,140 I picked Bob up on December 19 in 2000 578 00:34:01,175 --> 00:34:05,427 And took him down to Harper Ford, pick up his car keys, 579 00:34:05,479 --> 00:34:09,598 and took him back to the airport, 580 00:34:09,650 --> 00:34:11,266 where his car was, apparently. 581 00:34:13,154 --> 00:34:16,655 The parking facility at the Arcata Airport, 582 00:34:16,690 --> 00:34:18,941 they keep logs, a daily log 583 00:34:18,993 --> 00:34:22,027 of the vehicles that are kept in the lot. 584 00:34:23,531 --> 00:34:25,464 We did determine that Bobby had 585 00:34:25,499 --> 00:34:29,268 got his vehicle out of the long-term parking lot 586 00:34:29,303 --> 00:34:30,953 on the 19th of December. 587 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,550 Bob had at least one calling card 588 00:34:44,552 --> 00:34:46,552 that we found in his records. 589 00:34:46,604 --> 00:34:49,388 These two calls were made the next day, on the 20th, 590 00:34:49,390 --> 00:34:53,725 from a payphone in the town of Garberville, 591 00:34:53,727 --> 00:34:57,112 which is about 80, 90 miles south of Trinidad. 592 00:34:58,983 --> 00:35:01,116 It makes sense that he's moving south. 593 00:35:01,151 --> 00:35:02,234 He's heading down. 594 00:35:06,073 --> 00:35:09,625 This is a man who would check his voice messages 595 00:35:09,660 --> 00:35:11,076 several times a day. 596 00:35:11,128 --> 00:35:12,628 And then we found that, 597 00:35:12,663 --> 00:35:17,916 during the 3, 4 days prior to and after Susan's murder, 598 00:35:17,918 --> 00:35:21,303 there's no activity at all on his phone. 599 00:35:21,338 --> 00:35:22,421 The phone company says, like, 600 00:35:22,423 --> 00:35:24,590 the phone is turned off during that time. 601 00:35:40,357 --> 00:35:42,941 He's kind of off the map for 3 days, 602 00:35:42,993 --> 00:35:45,494 until he shows up at the counter in San Francisco 603 00:35:45,529 --> 00:35:47,829 to purchase a ticket. 604 00:35:47,865 --> 00:35:50,949 He was on Flight 18 that left San Francisco 605 00:35:50,951 --> 00:35:52,751 at 10:00 in the evening. 606 00:35:55,623 --> 00:35:58,123 Her body was found the following afternoon. 607 00:36:02,963 --> 00:36:06,048 According to the coroner's report and the rigor mortis, 608 00:36:06,100 --> 00:36:09,518 she'd probably been laying there close to 24 hours. 609 00:36:10,771 --> 00:36:11,970 That's ample time to drive 610 00:36:12,022 --> 00:36:14,640 L.A. to San Francisco, catch a flight. 611 00:36:27,655 --> 00:36:31,740 The timing on all of this gets very, very tight, 612 00:36:31,792 --> 00:36:34,326 because it's a long way from 613 00:36:34,378 --> 00:36:36,078 Trinidad to Los Angeles. 614 00:36:36,130 --> 00:36:38,497 I would have had to go from Trinidad to Los Angeles 615 00:36:38,549 --> 00:36:42,634 I don't know when... 19th, 20th, 21st or whatever... 616 00:36:42,670 --> 00:36:46,505 And then gone back to Los Angeles to Trinidad, 617 00:36:46,557 --> 00:36:49,675 and then gone to San Francisco and flown to New York. 618 00:36:49,677 --> 00:36:51,009 And they just conclude... 619 00:36:51,061 --> 00:36:53,562 That's not much time to do all that. 620 00:36:55,933 --> 00:36:57,599 And the L.A. Police have been 621 00:36:57,651 --> 00:36:59,818 investigating for a while now, 622 00:36:59,853 --> 00:37:02,938 and they're unable to put him in Los Angeles. 623 00:37:04,491 --> 00:37:06,992 But they were able to put you in California. 624 00:37:07,027 --> 00:37:08,694 California is a big state. 625 00:37:18,956 --> 00:37:22,374 The night that I found out, I went to Susan's house. 626 00:37:24,044 --> 00:37:25,877 There was just a pool of blood there, 627 00:37:25,929 --> 00:37:28,130 and Susan's hair in the blood. 628 00:37:28,182 --> 00:37:34,353 And, you know, it was, um, very disturbing, of course. 629 00:37:34,388 --> 00:37:36,772 And then the little, the little paw prints 630 00:37:36,807 --> 00:37:40,225 of the little doggies, you know, through, through that. 631 00:37:40,277 --> 00:37:44,646 And it was, you know, it was horrible. 632 00:37:44,698 --> 00:37:48,900 It was, it was really a terrible thing to see, 633 00:37:48,952 --> 00:37:55,791 and a terrible thing to see one of your friends like that. 634 00:37:55,826 --> 00:37:57,709 A terrible thing to see. 635 00:38:02,299 --> 00:38:04,082 There is no justice for Susan, 636 00:38:04,134 --> 00:38:07,719 because somebody took her life away, you know, 637 00:38:07,755 --> 00:38:10,222 and she was, she really was 638 00:38:10,257 --> 00:38:16,361 living valiantly to put her life together. 639 00:38:16,397 --> 00:38:20,732 There is justice that remains for everyone who's left behind. 640 00:38:20,768 --> 00:38:23,402 It's, it's for us... Not for Susan. 641 00:38:26,722 --> 00:38:29,776 If you could find closure and be able to put all this in the past, 642 00:38:29,777 --> 00:38:30,776 Mm-hmm. 643 00:38:30,518 --> 00:38:31,881 What would that look like for you? 644 00:38:31,882 --> 00:38:34,446 The truth. The truth will set you free. 645 00:38:34,448 --> 00:38:37,833 The truth would help it be all over. 646 00:38:41,538 --> 00:38:45,590 Once they had completed the crime scene investigation, 647 00:38:45,626 --> 00:38:48,293 her body had been removed by the coroner's office. 648 00:38:49,797 --> 00:38:54,599 Susan's possessions were released to Sareb Kaufman, 649 00:38:54,635 --> 00:38:58,804 who was the only family that she had there that they could find. 650 00:39:02,109 --> 00:39:04,142 The best I can ever hope for 651 00:39:04,144 --> 00:39:06,978 in finding out what happened is that it, for some reason, 652 00:39:06,980 --> 00:39:09,197 does turn out to be a random act of violence. 653 00:39:09,233 --> 00:39:11,700 That somebody just thought they were 654 00:39:11,735 --> 00:39:13,568 robbing a house that had nothing and killed her. 655 00:39:13,620 --> 00:39:15,203 That's the best I can hope for. 656 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,823 Outside of that, it's a friend. 657 00:39:17,825 --> 00:39:18,990 It's somebody she knew. 658 00:39:19,042 --> 00:39:20,459 It's somebody I've spoken to. 659 00:39:45,486 --> 00:39:47,402 First saved voice message. 660 00:39:48,554 --> 00:39:50,056 Hey, Marc, it's Sareb. 661 00:39:50,139 --> 00:39:54,226 Started going through the boxes of Susan's stuff and I did have another box. 662 00:39:54,852 --> 00:39:59,732 So, wanted to actually get a reality check from you, when you have a second. 663 00:40:00,232 --> 00:40:01,442 All right, bye. 664 00:40:06,957 --> 00:40:08,707 First saved voice message. 665 00:40:09,325 --> 00:40:10,409 Hey, Andrew, it's Marc. 666 00:40:10,493 --> 00:40:13,204 Listen, I'm going to make this quick because I've got Sareb in the restaurant over here. 667 00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:16,373 We went to his house. He was very uptight... 668 00:40:22,389 --> 00:40:23,638 Well, do you, do you want to, 669 00:40:23,690 --> 00:40:25,023 should we come up and see what you got? 670 00:40:25,058 --> 00:40:26,141 Or do you want to bring it with you? 671 00:40:26,193 --> 00:40:28,026 What do you...? Yeah. 672 00:40:28,061 --> 00:40:29,778 All right. All right. Bye. 673 00:40:29,813 --> 00:40:31,897 I didn't want you to think, you know, I felt bad. 674 00:40:31,949 --> 00:40:33,365 - I was like... What's all this? 675 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,234 Well, these are audiotapes that were in Susan's possession. 676 00:40:36,236 --> 00:40:37,619 So, some of them... 677 00:40:37,654 --> 00:40:39,654 Like, probably from interviews she did. 678 00:40:39,706 --> 00:40:42,624 Right. And then the memorial is in there. 679 00:40:42,659 --> 00:40:43,909 So, let me see the letter. 680 00:40:45,495 --> 00:40:47,295 And, I mean, of course I told you this, but... 681 00:40:59,092 --> 00:41:01,426 He showed me a letter from Bob to Susan 682 00:41:01,478 --> 00:41:04,563 that was from March before she was murdered. 683 00:41:04,598 --> 00:41:05,730 The address written on the front 684 00:41:05,766 --> 00:41:08,066 is exactly like the "cadaver" note, 685 00:41:08,101 --> 00:41:10,018 down to the misspelling of "Beverly." 686 00:41:22,282 --> 00:41:23,615 So, I'm not trying to make you feel... 687 00:41:23,667 --> 00:41:27,919 No. Like I said, and this is kind of why... 688 00:41:27,955 --> 00:41:30,872 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I got you. Got you. 689 00:41:30,924 --> 00:41:33,959 You know, I'm, I, it was clear enough 690 00:41:34,011 --> 00:41:35,677 that I might be dancing with the devil. 691 00:42:05,524 --> 00:42:07,067 Do you think you have an answer now? 692 00:42:14,251 --> 00:42:15,333 I do. 693 00:42:22,092 --> 00:42:24,009 Is it possible for us to get 694 00:42:24,011 --> 00:42:28,763 the inventory of what was taken out of Susan's house 695 00:42:28,815 --> 00:42:30,015 after she was murdered? 696 00:42:30,017 --> 00:42:32,267 Because, you know, you can ask Coulter 697 00:42:32,319 --> 00:42:34,686 whether he saw any other letters. 698 00:42:34,970 --> 00:42:38,557 You know, is there any chance that this letter is already in the cops' file? 699 00:42:38,558 --> 00:42:41,693 No, I tried. I dug really deep today. 700 00:42:41,695 --> 00:42:42,694 - No chance. - No chance. 701 00:42:42,696 --> 00:42:45,196 No chance. No chance. 702 00:42:45,248 --> 00:42:46,948 Are you opening up your safe deposit? 703 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,867 Yeah. So, I have to fill out... 704 00:42:56,710 --> 00:43:01,129 I would like to take the next month and, you know, 705 00:43:01,181 --> 00:43:03,214 nothing's bringing Susan back 706 00:43:03,216 --> 00:43:05,967 and nobody's going to know that we have this document. 707 00:43:07,054 --> 00:43:12,390 So, what about, we interview Bob? 708 00:43:12,442 --> 00:43:13,892 We bring it up. 709 00:43:13,944 --> 00:43:15,477 We have it on film. 710 00:43:17,397 --> 00:43:18,697 And now we have something 711 00:43:18,732 --> 00:43:20,281 that the LAPD's going to really want. 712 00:43:20,317 --> 00:43:22,567 Because now we have, without all the bullshit, 713 00:43:22,569 --> 00:43:24,903 without having to go through 800 different levels 714 00:43:24,905 --> 00:43:26,488 of discovery and all that stuff. 715 00:43:26,540 --> 00:43:28,740 We've got Bob reacting clean 716 00:43:28,742 --> 00:43:30,909 to this hugely important piece of evidence. 717 00:43:32,829 --> 00:43:37,248 Bob second interview.