1
00:00:28,025 --> 00:00:29,859
What do you see as the downside
2
00:00:29,893 --> 00:00:31,477
to sitting down
and doing an interview,
3
00:00:31,528 --> 00:00:33,813
and what do you see
as the upside?
4
00:00:33,815 --> 00:00:36,232
The downside
of giving an interview
5
00:00:36,283 --> 00:00:40,786
is that the interviewer
will take what I've said
6
00:00:40,821 --> 00:00:43,406
to make me look
as bad as possible.
7
00:00:43,457 --> 00:00:47,493
The upside is that there will be
8
00:00:47,495 --> 00:00:50,129
something out there from me.
9
00:00:50,163 --> 00:00:53,582
I mean this whole time,
since I've gotten out of prison,
10
00:00:53,633 --> 00:00:57,553
I've said nothing to nobody
about anything.
11
00:00:57,587 --> 00:00:59,171
So, people out there have gotten
12
00:00:59,222 --> 00:01:01,507
very used to the fact they
can say anything you want,
13
00:01:01,509 --> 00:01:03,392
because I'm never going
to give an interview,
14
00:01:03,427 --> 00:01:05,394
so, it's never
going to be disputed.
15
00:01:05,429 --> 00:01:08,931
And, and I see that a, a lot.
16
00:01:08,982 --> 00:01:13,069
Um, I will be able
to tell it my way,
17
00:01:13,103 --> 00:01:16,405
and if somebody
is reasonably open
18
00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,443
to a different story
or a different,
19
00:01:20,494 --> 00:01:22,411
um, situation
20
00:01:22,446 --> 00:01:24,830
than what has been
put in the media,
21
00:01:24,865 --> 00:01:27,199
then they'll have an
opportunity to believe it.
22
00:01:31,588 --> 00:01:36,208
Anyone who knew
his life story would be sympathetic.
23
00:01:36,210 --> 00:01:39,211
And it's true.
He's, he had some rough times.
24
00:01:39,262 --> 00:01:43,516
Um, you talk about
the Poor, Little Rich Boy.
25
00:01:43,550 --> 00:01:45,551
One thing that was very
telling that Bob said.
26
00:01:45,602 --> 00:01:48,771
He said, "You know, all my life
27
00:01:48,805 --> 00:01:52,641
"I've had more money
than I could spend,
28
00:01:52,692 --> 00:01:54,193
and it didn't make me happy."
29
00:02:01,206 --> 00:02:05,001
Would you, for the record, tell the
ladies and gentlemen of the jury your name?
30
00:02:05,710 --> 00:02:07,212
Robert Durst.
31
00:02:09,422 --> 00:02:11,591
Mr. Durst, when were you born?
32
00:02:12,467 --> 00:02:15,136
April 12, 1943.
33
00:02:15,637 --> 00:02:16,888
And where were you born?
34
00:02:18,223 --> 00:02:19,766
New York City.
35
00:02:22,227 --> 00:02:24,729
- Who is your father?
- Seymour Durst.
36
00:02:25,688 --> 00:02:27,649
- And your mother?
- Bernice Durst.
37
00:02:29,901 --> 00:02:32,529
- Is your father still alive?
- No, sir.
38
00:02:33,530 --> 00:02:36,074
- Is your mother still alive?
- No, sir.
39
00:02:38,535 --> 00:02:41,079
How old were you
when your mother died?
40
00:02:41,830 --> 00:02:43,081
Seven.
41
00:02:44,415 --> 00:02:46,417
Were you present when she died?
42
00:02:48,586 --> 00:02:49,796
Yes, sir.
43
00:02:49,879 --> 00:02:50,880
And how did she die?
44
00:02:52,924 --> 00:02:55,134
She died a violent death.
45
00:04:23,543 --> 00:04:24,960
I'm the oldest.
46
00:04:26,513 --> 00:04:28,514
Douglas is two years younger.
47
00:04:30,133 --> 00:04:35,688
I have a sister who's
4 years younger than me
48
00:04:35,722 --> 00:04:39,024
and I have a little brother
who's 7 years younger than me.
49
00:04:45,565 --> 00:04:48,701
Your memories of
your time with your mother?
50
00:04:48,735 --> 00:04:50,903
Happy. Happy. Happy.
51
00:05:08,088 --> 00:05:10,005
What's your
first memory of that night
52
00:05:10,056 --> 00:05:11,223
that your mother died?
53
00:05:13,843 --> 00:05:16,011
My father came and got me,
and he said,
54
00:05:16,062 --> 00:05:18,464
"I'd like you to
come on over here.
55
00:05:18,498 --> 00:05:21,483
I want you to, you know,
to see, see Mommy."
56
00:05:26,156 --> 00:05:28,240
And we looked out a hall window
57
00:05:28,275 --> 00:05:32,695
out onto the roof,
and there was Mommy.
58
00:05:32,746 --> 00:05:35,781
And I waved at Mommy.
59
00:05:35,865 --> 00:05:37,866
I don't know that she saw me.
60
00:05:37,917 --> 00:05:41,620
It never went through
my mind that...
61
00:05:41,622 --> 00:05:45,958
"What is she doing out on
the roof in her nightie?"
62
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,627
I mean,
it just didn't focus on me.
63
00:05:48,629 --> 00:05:50,346
"There's Mommy.
Wave at Mommy.
64
00:05:50,380 --> 00:05:52,514
Okay, now go on back to bed."
65
00:05:58,388 --> 00:06:04,526
All of a sudden I heard the maid shouting,
"She's off the roof!"
66
00:06:14,237 --> 00:06:16,538
It was a long, long fall.
67
00:06:25,965 --> 00:06:29,718
The 4 adults who were there
reported that she fell.
68
00:06:29,753 --> 00:06:32,054
Whether they reported that
because they didn't want to say
69
00:06:32,088 --> 00:06:34,840
she committed suicide,
I have no idea.
70
00:06:38,345 --> 00:06:40,813
I never forgot it.
I mean, it happened.
71
00:06:40,847 --> 00:06:45,184
I was there. I saw it...
Whatever I saw.
72
00:06:45,186 --> 00:06:47,686
It, it never left me.
73
00:07:09,793 --> 00:07:12,378
I went to the funeral.
74
00:07:12,429 --> 00:07:14,296
I mean, if you ever
have an opportunity
75
00:07:14,347 --> 00:07:16,348
which you're
better off not taking
76
00:07:16,383 --> 00:07:20,102
a 7-year-old child
to a funeral.
77
00:07:20,136 --> 00:07:21,637
That was a disaster.
78
00:07:23,556 --> 00:07:26,592
People are telling me,
"Ah, your mommy will be safe.
79
00:07:26,626 --> 00:07:28,193
She'll be right here."
80
00:07:28,228 --> 00:07:33,148
And they're starting to lower
the coffin into the ground.
81
00:07:33,199 --> 00:07:36,285
And I'm going, "Wait a minute.
82
00:07:36,319 --> 00:07:38,787
Mommy's in this box?"
83
00:07:38,822 --> 00:07:41,990
"Oh, yes.
She'll be right here."
84
00:07:42,041 --> 00:07:46,128
"Get Mommy out of the box!
I don't want Mommy in the box."
85
00:07:46,162 --> 00:07:49,047
And I jumped out
and tried to stop the guys
86
00:07:49,082 --> 00:07:53,085
from lowering this box in,
into the ground.
87
00:07:57,807 --> 00:08:00,092
After that,
they had a big problem with me,
88
00:08:00,094 --> 00:08:02,344
because I would run away.
89
00:08:02,395 --> 00:08:04,980
They took me to school,
I would run away.
90
00:08:05,014 --> 00:08:07,533
At home I would run away.
91
00:08:07,567 --> 00:08:11,437
A number of times,
they had to call the police to go find me.
92
00:08:11,488 --> 00:08:13,939
I would just run away
and go hide somewhere.
93
00:08:17,277 --> 00:08:21,413
Did your dad do
anything to make up for
94
00:08:21,448 --> 00:08:23,532
the disappearance of
your mother in your life?
95
00:08:23,583 --> 00:08:26,785
Did he say, "Well, now I'm going to
come home more frequently"
96
00:08:26,787 --> 00:08:27,836
or "I'm going to change..."?
97
00:08:27,871 --> 00:08:29,455
He never said that.
And he did not.
98
00:08:34,294 --> 00:08:39,131
My father was not there
like he should have been.
99
00:08:39,133 --> 00:08:42,267
Did you confront your dad about it
later on in your life?
100
00:08:42,302 --> 00:08:44,937
Oh, I confronted him
with the whole thing.
101
00:08:44,971 --> 00:08:48,774
You know, way back when,
when I got 12, 13, 14.
102
00:08:50,143 --> 00:08:51,677
What was his response?
103
00:08:54,447 --> 00:08:57,282
He wouldn't go there.
104
00:09:03,656 --> 00:09:05,908
Bob carried around with him
105
00:09:05,959 --> 00:09:08,827
a number of photographs
from his life.
106
00:09:08,878 --> 00:09:13,632
It's very touching to see
what mattered to him.
107
00:09:13,666 --> 00:09:19,054
He had several pictures of, uh,
himself with Kathie.
108
00:09:19,088 --> 00:09:20,689
He had pictures
of their wedding.
109
00:09:23,522 --> 00:09:28,152
Let me show you
the Defendant's Exhibit, 52 and 53,
110
00:09:29,362 --> 00:09:31,322
and ask you what these photographs show.
111
00:09:32,281 --> 00:09:34,325
That was us on our wedding day.
112
00:09:36,327 --> 00:09:38,788
That was us on our wedding day, too.
113
00:09:44,581 --> 00:09:46,949
Which one of those
pictures is Kathie?
114
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,250
Kathie? Oh.
115
00:09:50,203 --> 00:09:51,870
This is Kathie.
116
00:09:51,921 --> 00:09:53,505
That's when we lived in Hollis.
117
00:09:55,041 --> 00:09:57,242
She was always
nice-looking.
118
00:09:58,845 --> 00:10:00,963
She had a brain.
That's the thing.
119
00:10:01,014 --> 00:10:04,016
She was probably smarter than me.
120
00:10:07,817 --> 00:10:10,653
Do you remember
when you first heard about Bob?
121
00:10:11,057 --> 00:10:12,391
Bob must have been
out with his friends,
122
00:10:12,442 --> 00:10:14,393
and that's how she met him.
123
00:10:14,444 --> 00:10:16,478
All his pick up.
124
00:10:16,529 --> 00:10:20,566
The worst thing that ever happened,
I think. Really.
125
00:10:21,205 --> 00:10:24,333
If you had him sitting here,
what would you say to him?
126
00:10:25,238 --> 00:10:27,122
"What did you do with her?"
127
00:10:27,156 --> 00:10:30,375
Because he's the...
The key is with him.
128
00:10:30,410 --> 00:10:32,494
Where is she, Bob?
What did you do with her?
129
00:10:34,914 --> 00:10:35,914
I didn't meet him right away.
130
00:10:35,916 --> 00:10:37,082
I heard about him.
131
00:10:37,133 --> 00:10:40,085
That he was courting her,
and she was you know very...
132
00:10:40,087 --> 00:10:42,254
"swept off her feet" is the way
I like to describe it.
133
00:10:42,256 --> 00:10:44,473
You know, he just came on
like Prince Charming.
134
00:10:44,507 --> 00:10:46,675
Um, and she was
basically Cinderella.
135
00:10:48,678 --> 00:10:51,280
She thought I was
good-looking in my little way.
136
00:10:51,314 --> 00:10:54,600
Cute, or whatever it was.
137
00:10:54,602 --> 00:10:57,102
And she was very
outgoing and social,
138
00:10:57,153 --> 00:10:59,905
and got along
with people real good.
139
00:10:59,939 --> 00:11:01,440
So, it was perfect.
140
00:11:01,442 --> 00:11:03,325
Because I don't
get along with people.
141
00:11:03,359 --> 00:11:05,777
Most people don't
get along with me.
142
00:11:08,948 --> 00:11:10,949
We met in the fall of '71.
143
00:11:10,951 --> 00:11:12,918
I was living and working
in New York City,
144
00:11:12,952 --> 00:11:15,754
whereas Bob was visiting
New York City from Vermont.
145
00:11:19,709 --> 00:11:23,011
I had this health food
store in my mind
146
00:11:23,046 --> 00:11:24,930
and then I met Kathie.
147
00:11:24,964 --> 00:11:26,715
And she, we got along great,
148
00:11:26,766 --> 00:11:28,967
and she was right away
in favor of it.
149
00:11:31,971 --> 00:11:33,522
After two dates, he asked me
150
00:11:33,556 --> 00:11:35,190
to come live with him
in Vermont,
151
00:11:35,224 --> 00:11:38,060
and I did, in January of '72.
152
00:11:39,529 --> 00:11:43,231
My very first impression of
Kathie and Bobby when I met them
153
00:11:43,282 --> 00:11:44,650
was that they were in love.
154
00:11:44,652 --> 00:11:46,612
There was no two ways about it.
They were in love.
155
00:11:48,404 --> 00:11:51,540
In late March,
the question of marriage came up.
156
00:11:51,574 --> 00:11:54,292
We were as close then
as we probably ever were.
157
00:11:56,796 --> 00:11:59,464
Did you see yourself staying
in Vermont for a long time?
158
00:11:59,499 --> 00:12:00,632
Oh, yeah.
This was it.
159
00:12:00,667 --> 00:12:02,334
This is what I was going to do.
160
00:12:08,145 --> 00:12:12,066
Even in the '70s,
was the Durst family business,
161
00:12:12,149 --> 00:12:17,321
the Durst Organization,
a powerful business entity in New York?
162
00:12:18,697 --> 00:12:23,035
We were always one of the top five or six
owners of property in Manhattan.
163
00:12:29,417 --> 00:12:31,001
Were you interested in that business?
164
00:12:32,169 --> 00:12:33,170
No.
165
00:12:35,284 --> 00:12:40,005
Every October, we would go up to
166
00:12:40,039 --> 00:12:43,341
the cemetery where
my mother was.
167
00:12:43,376 --> 00:12:45,627
My father said,
"You know, one day I'm going to be
168
00:12:45,678 --> 00:12:49,848
over here"...
Pointing next to my mother.
169
00:12:49,882 --> 00:12:53,885
"Please let me,
when I come here, know that,
170
00:12:53,936 --> 00:12:57,355
that the business is being
taken care of by you."
171
00:12:59,697 --> 00:13:02,533
What happened to the health food store?
172
00:13:02,616 --> 00:13:04,493
We sort of sold it.
173
00:13:05,619 --> 00:13:07,413
Why did you sell it?
174
00:13:07,830 --> 00:13:10,374
I had gone along with my father's wishes
175
00:13:12,293 --> 00:13:14,545
and agreed to go into the family business.
176
00:13:18,048 --> 00:13:21,177
- Did you want to go back to New York?
- No.
177
00:13:27,587 --> 00:13:28,920
I remember very early on
178
00:13:28,971 --> 00:13:31,256
being enamored by
his family success.
179
00:13:31,258 --> 00:13:33,425
The business, at that time,
it was 8...
180
00:13:33,476 --> 00:13:35,594
it was reported in one of the,
I think it was Forbes,
181
00:13:35,645 --> 00:13:39,264
$880,000,000 family dynasty.
182
00:13:39,315 --> 00:13:41,767
And I said, "Wow,
maybe I can learn from this guy."
183
00:13:41,818 --> 00:13:44,603
And when I tried to
engage him in discussions,
184
00:13:44,654 --> 00:13:46,021
he kind of changed the subject.
185
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,157
He never was friendly.
186
00:13:49,192 --> 00:13:50,492
To me, I don't think.
187
00:13:50,526 --> 00:13:54,780
You never could like converse
with him or anything, you know.
188
00:13:54,782 --> 00:13:57,282
He wasn't that friendly.
He was an oddball.
189
00:13:59,168 --> 00:14:01,503
Kathie's mother
was very interested
190
00:14:01,537 --> 00:14:03,955
in Bob Durst "liking me."
191
00:14:04,006 --> 00:14:08,376
And Bob Durst
"conversing with me."
192
00:14:08,427 --> 00:14:11,713
Her favorite reading material
was the magazine
193
00:14:11,747 --> 00:14:14,800
Yankee, a New England thing.
194
00:14:14,802 --> 00:14:17,302
And she,
she would want to talk to me
195
00:14:17,304 --> 00:14:19,805
about the articles in Yankee.
196
00:14:19,856 --> 00:14:21,773
I don't know.
I'm not interested in
197
00:14:21,808 --> 00:14:23,391
talking about canning.
198
00:14:27,363 --> 00:14:30,148
These experiences with her
family were kind of like
199
00:14:30,199 --> 00:14:32,717
"Bob meets the average
American family."
200
00:14:34,237 --> 00:14:36,204
Well, more than "meet."
201
00:14:36,239 --> 00:14:39,457
"Bob is forced
to spend time with
202
00:14:39,492 --> 00:14:42,244
the average
American family."
203
00:14:42,295 --> 00:14:48,500
"Bob is supposed to be polite
and cooperative and pleasant,
204
00:14:48,502 --> 00:14:52,754
and engage in the same
conversations that they are."
205
00:14:52,805 --> 00:14:56,758
And I just couldn't do that.
206
00:14:59,812 --> 00:15:02,180
As we're going back in the car,
207
00:15:02,231 --> 00:15:06,268
Kathie is crying, and saying,
"They're all good people.
208
00:15:06,319 --> 00:15:08,687
"They treated us
with utmost respect.
209
00:15:08,738 --> 00:15:12,023
You can just put up
with it for two hours."
210
00:15:13,659 --> 00:15:14,776
Did you say, "I'll try"?
211
00:15:16,028 --> 00:15:17,612
I wouldn't talk about it.
212
00:15:24,370 --> 00:15:27,672
If you were with Kathie's mother,
what would you say?
213
00:15:28,875 --> 00:15:31,593
"I feel bad about
the way I treated you."
214
00:15:36,716 --> 00:15:38,216
"That you're
a good person."
215
00:15:44,056 --> 00:15:47,859
"I am complicit in Kathie's
not being here."
216
00:16:01,774 --> 00:16:04,576
I was the last person
to see Kathie in New York.
217
00:16:06,412 --> 00:16:08,046
And the very first thing we did,
218
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,414
as soon as we got
through the door,
219
00:16:09,416 --> 00:16:11,633
she picked up the phone
and phoned Bob.
220
00:16:11,667 --> 00:16:14,586
And said,
"I'm here with Geraldine."
221
00:16:14,588 --> 00:16:17,472
And I said to her,
"Do you always phone Bob?"
222
00:16:17,506 --> 00:16:20,141
And she said, "Yes,
he always wants to know where I am."
223
00:16:22,511 --> 00:16:24,095
We said to Kathie,
"Don't forget.
224
00:16:24,146 --> 00:16:26,264
You have to be
up in the morning at 8:00."
225
00:16:26,315 --> 00:16:30,268
They were going to go up
to the South Salem house.
226
00:16:30,319 --> 00:16:32,570
She said she really
didn't want to go.
227
00:16:32,605 --> 00:16:35,774
And I said,
"So, tell him you can't go."
228
00:16:35,825 --> 00:16:38,276
And she looked at me like
I'd just sprouted horns.
229
00:16:38,278 --> 00:16:41,579
And she said,
"Are you kidding? He'd kill me."
230
00:17:00,549 --> 00:17:04,436
I was having a late afternoon
dinner party for my family.
231
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:05,637
And Kathie really
wasn't invited.
232
00:17:05,688 --> 00:17:07,472
But when Kathie called me
that morning and said,
233
00:17:07,474 --> 00:17:09,724
"Gilberte,
I need to get out of here,"
234
00:17:09,775 --> 00:17:11,476
I'm not going to tell
my best friend "no."
235
00:17:14,814 --> 00:17:16,314
Everybody was getting along,
236
00:17:16,365 --> 00:17:19,067
and everybody was enjoying,
you know.
237
00:17:19,118 --> 00:17:21,486
It was just a nice evening.
238
00:17:25,541 --> 00:17:28,576
And I can remember very clearly
the telephone calls.
239
00:17:28,627 --> 00:17:31,796
And Bobby insisting that
Kathie come home
240
00:17:31,831 --> 00:17:35,884
and Kathie being visibly shaken
after the phone calls.
241
00:17:35,918 --> 00:17:37,335
She went out.
She warmed up the Mercedes.
242
00:17:37,337 --> 00:17:40,805
She came back in and she said,
"I'm leaving now."
243
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:42,340
So we stood on the front porch.
244
00:17:42,342 --> 00:17:44,509
She said to me,
"Gilberte, promise me.
245
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,345
"If something happens,
you'll check it out.
246
00:17:47,347 --> 00:17:48,396
I'm afraid of Bobby."
247
00:17:48,431 --> 00:17:50,148
And I just said,
"Kathie, of course.
248
00:17:50,182 --> 00:17:51,766
You can count on me."
249
00:17:51,817 --> 00:17:54,352
It didn't even register
that she was
250
00:17:54,354 --> 00:17:56,938
telling me that for some
dreadful reason.
251
00:17:56,989 --> 00:17:58,189
I just didn't get it.
252
00:18:23,682 --> 00:18:25,717
Gilberte called me.
253
00:18:25,768 --> 00:18:28,853
And she asked me if I had heard
from Kathie, and I said, "No."
254
00:18:28,888 --> 00:18:31,156
And she said, "Well,
I was supposed to go to the city.
255
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:32,390
I was supposed to meet her."
256
00:18:38,397 --> 00:18:42,117
I was waiting for Kathie
and waiting for Kathie
257
00:18:42,151 --> 00:18:43,401
and she never showed up.
258
00:18:52,661 --> 00:18:56,247
The phone rang, and we pick up
the phone and it's Bob Durst.
259
00:18:56,298 --> 00:18:59,667
And his gravelly voice...
I can still hear the voice,
260
00:18:59,718 --> 00:19:03,838
because he has that sound...
He said, "Jim. This is Bob."
261
00:19:03,889 --> 00:19:05,423
You know, words to that effect.
262
00:19:05,425 --> 00:19:06,975
"Do you know where Kathie is?"
263
00:19:07,009 --> 00:19:09,761
And I was like, "Bob,
I don't know where Kathie is.
264
00:19:09,812 --> 00:19:12,163
You know, I'm presuming she's,
she's with you."
265
00:19:17,987 --> 00:19:21,156
Kathie is off the grid.
266
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:22,774
Something happened.
267
00:19:26,946 --> 00:19:28,363
My name is Michael Struk.
268
00:19:28,414 --> 00:19:29,881
I'm retired as a detective from
269
00:19:29,915 --> 00:19:31,382
the New York City
Police Department.
270
00:19:32,751 --> 00:19:34,536
Can you just read the details?
271
00:19:34,587 --> 00:19:35,787
Yeah.
272
00:19:35,789 --> 00:19:38,006
So, when I, when I initiated
273
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,875
the, uh, the missing persons
brief narrative,
274
00:19:40,926 --> 00:19:44,512
it said, "The complainant,
Robert Durst,
275
00:19:44,547 --> 00:19:47,015
"was present at the 2-0 Precinct,
Precinct Detective Unit
276
00:19:47,049 --> 00:19:49,968
"and states that
his wife of 9 years,
277
00:19:50,019 --> 00:19:51,859
"who is currently
a fourth-year medical student
278
00:19:51,887 --> 00:19:54,139
"at the Albert Einstein
Medical Center,
279
00:19:54,141 --> 00:19:56,057
"has not been seen
since Sunday evening,
280
00:19:56,108 --> 00:20:00,311
"January 31, 1982.
281
00:20:00,313 --> 00:20:01,813
"The subject is the
daughter-in-law of
282
00:20:01,815 --> 00:20:03,898
wealthy real estate
executive Seymour Durst."
283
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:14,075
We went over the events of Sunday,
January 31.
284
00:20:16,212 --> 00:20:18,163
Mr. Durst stated
that he and his wife
285
00:20:18,165 --> 00:20:20,331
had gone to South Salem
Grocery Store
286
00:20:20,333 --> 00:20:21,499
to get a newspaper.
287
00:20:23,669 --> 00:20:24,919
They came home for breakfast.
288
00:20:29,058 --> 00:20:32,010
Kathie went to Gilberte's house
later in the afternoon,
289
00:20:32,061 --> 00:20:33,761
around 3:30, 4:00.
290
00:20:35,648 --> 00:20:37,565
And she utilized the Mercedes.
291
00:20:50,529 --> 00:20:55,867
Kathie returned back to
South Salem at about 7:30.
292
00:20:55,869 --> 00:20:58,670
She had appeared
to have been drinking,
293
00:20:58,704 --> 00:21:00,004
but that she wasn't drunk.
294
00:21:07,463 --> 00:21:10,932
Mr. Durst stated that
they had a sandwich together.
295
00:21:14,019 --> 00:21:17,138
And then later left
for the Katonah Station
296
00:21:17,189 --> 00:21:18,690
at about 8:30 P.M.
297
00:21:25,981 --> 00:21:27,815
And according to him,
it appeared that
298
00:21:27,866 --> 00:21:29,400
she did get on a train.
299
00:21:35,107 --> 00:21:37,909
He then returned back
to the house in South Salem.
300
00:21:39,295 --> 00:21:41,746
As he was going to the house,
he had observed
301
00:21:41,748 --> 00:21:43,214
his neighbor Bill Mayer.
302
00:21:47,052 --> 00:21:48,920
He had a drink with Mr. Mayer.
303
00:21:54,343 --> 00:21:56,894
He further stated he
then went for a walk.
304
00:21:56,929 --> 00:21:59,731
Later called his wife
from a pay phone.
305
00:22:02,484 --> 00:22:05,403
And that had occurred at about 11:00,
11:15 that evening.
306
00:22:07,106 --> 00:22:11,009
She stated that she was fine,
and that she was watching TV.
307
00:22:13,946 --> 00:22:16,414
After the call to his wife,
Durst says that
308
00:22:16,448 --> 00:22:18,783
he walks home
and he goes to sleep.
309
00:22:26,258 --> 00:22:29,844
Police are satisfied
that the 28-year-old, 5' 6"
310
00:22:29,878 --> 00:22:31,763
Mrs. Durst made it to the city,
311
00:22:31,797 --> 00:22:35,516
and got to the couple's
apartment on Riverside Drive.
312
00:22:35,551 --> 00:22:37,935
The night doorman told them
he saw her come in
313
00:22:37,970 --> 00:22:39,971
at about 11:30 Sunday night
314
00:22:40,022 --> 00:22:43,641
and go up to the Durst penthouse
on top of the 15-story building.
315
00:22:57,156 --> 00:22:59,957
The doorman
at 37 Riverside Drive
316
00:22:59,992 --> 00:23:03,378
saw her arrive home that Sunday
evening and go to her apartment.
317
00:23:08,168 --> 00:23:10,301
And she was
heard from Monday morning.
318
00:23:10,336 --> 00:23:12,003
Mrs. Durst was a fourth-year
medical student
319
00:23:12,054 --> 00:23:14,389
here at the Albert Einstein
College of Medicine.
320
00:23:14,423 --> 00:23:16,924
And she was to have
a clinic class that morning,
321
00:23:16,975 --> 00:23:19,260
but she called up saying
she wasn't feeling well.
322
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:24,015
She had called
the dean of the Medical School
323
00:23:24,066 --> 00:23:25,683
and told the dean that
she couldn't make it
324
00:23:25,685 --> 00:23:28,603
because she was sick.
325
00:23:28,654 --> 00:23:29,987
As far as police know,
326
00:23:30,022 --> 00:23:34,025
that's the last time that
anyone had contact with her.
327
00:23:34,027 --> 00:23:35,860
Good evening.
She talked on the telephone
328
00:23:35,911 --> 00:23:39,030
with her husband and with
a supervisor at a medical center.
329
00:23:39,032 --> 00:23:40,865
Then she vanished.
330
00:23:40,867 --> 00:23:42,417
That was more than a week ago.
331
00:23:42,451 --> 00:23:47,205
And no one has seen
Kathleen Durst since.
332
00:23:47,256 --> 00:23:49,791
- She's gone.
- Nobody's heard from her.
333
00:23:49,842 --> 00:23:51,175
There's no crime scene.
334
00:23:51,210 --> 00:23:54,095
There's no telephone activity
or checking account activity.
335
00:23:54,129 --> 00:23:57,131
Credit card activity. Zero.
It's almost like "poof."
336
00:23:57,182 --> 00:23:59,350
Right off the face of the earth.
337
00:24:02,271 --> 00:24:03,471
2-0 Detectives Squad.
338
00:24:03,522 --> 00:24:04,722
Yeah, is Lieutenant Gibbons in?
339
00:24:04,773 --> 00:24:05,723
- Yeah.
- He is?
340
00:24:05,725 --> 00:24:06,891
- Yeah.
- Can you transfer me in to him?
341
00:24:06,942 --> 00:24:09,394
This is Jim McCormack,
Kathie Durst's brother.
342
00:24:10,863 --> 00:24:12,447
- Hey, listen, Jim.
- There's two ways of viewing
343
00:24:12,481 --> 00:24:13,781
this thing, you know,
at this stage.
344
00:24:13,816 --> 00:24:15,450
And I wouldn't bullshit you.
345
00:24:15,484 --> 00:24:19,287
She's either dead,
or she voluntarily left.
346
00:24:19,321 --> 00:24:23,991
I wouldn't be surprised as to the second,
as a matter of fact.
347
00:24:26,245 --> 00:24:27,712
When a guy comes in
and says the wife is gone,
348
00:24:27,746 --> 00:24:30,832
right away,
not that you're jaded about the effort
349
00:24:30,883 --> 00:24:33,584
that you're going to put forth,
but it's like,
350
00:24:33,635 --> 00:24:36,087
"Yeah, well, you know,
maybe she's shacking up
351
00:24:36,089 --> 00:24:38,723
"or, or she's just
tired of this guy.
352
00:24:38,757 --> 00:24:41,926
"Maybe he's a,
he's a, he's a banana
353
00:24:41,977 --> 00:24:42,927
"and she doesn't just want to
354
00:24:42,978 --> 00:24:43,978
involve herself
with him anymore."
355
00:24:44,012 --> 00:24:45,563
And then she took off.
356
00:24:45,597 --> 00:24:47,482
That happens all the time.
357
00:24:47,516 --> 00:24:48,599
Is there any
reason at this point
358
00:24:48,601 --> 00:24:51,936
to suspect that she
might have been killed,
359
00:24:51,987 --> 00:24:53,271
kidnapped, anything like that?
360
00:24:53,322 --> 00:24:55,072
No. No.
At this point there's nothing
361
00:24:55,107 --> 00:24:57,608
to indicate any
foul play at all.
362
00:24:57,610 --> 00:24:59,110
Do you remember what he said
363
00:24:59,112 --> 00:25:01,078
about the state of the marriage?
364
00:25:01,113 --> 00:25:02,947
Sure, that would,
that's always...
365
00:25:02,949 --> 00:25:04,449
The, the state
of their marriage...
366
00:25:04,451 --> 00:25:06,834
That's, that's,
that's a common question
367
00:25:06,869 --> 00:25:08,336
you have to ask when a spouse is
368
00:25:08,370 --> 00:25:10,321
reporting another
spouse missing.
369
00:25:10,355 --> 00:25:12,023
You know,
I don't remember his exact words,
370
00:25:12,057 --> 00:25:13,174
but like, "Well, you know, like
371
00:25:13,208 --> 00:25:15,059
"every other family,
you know, we may have
372
00:25:15,093 --> 00:25:16,994
occasional argument,"
or something like that.
373
00:25:25,721 --> 00:25:27,738
Kathie was very protective of
374
00:25:27,773 --> 00:25:30,041
the negatives of
the relationship.
375
00:25:30,075 --> 00:25:31,709
She'd always share
the good things.
376
00:25:31,743 --> 00:25:33,177
You know, happy to tell us about
377
00:25:33,212 --> 00:25:35,112
the trips and the decorating
378
00:25:35,147 --> 00:25:37,482
and the new house in
South Salem on the lake.
379
00:25:37,516 --> 00:25:40,785
But when there were issues...
Fights, whatever...
380
00:25:40,819 --> 00:25:42,069
You didn't hear about it.
381
00:25:44,540 --> 00:25:46,123
Spring of '79.
382
00:25:46,158 --> 00:25:48,743
We return from a party.
Both drunk.
383
00:25:48,794 --> 00:25:50,495
We argued and he slapped me.
384
00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:56,217
Fall of '79, we were both sober
385
00:25:56,251 --> 00:25:58,636
and argued about
some minor issue.
386
00:25:58,670 --> 00:26:01,506
He punched me, and I fell to the ground...
Hit my leg.
387
00:26:03,008 --> 00:26:08,829
The fights between them
started to become more intense.
388
00:26:09,898 --> 00:26:13,734
With the verbal arguments
and the escalating violence,
389
00:26:13,769 --> 00:26:16,187
when you start to put it
all together after the fact,
390
00:26:16,189 --> 00:26:18,272
you realize that the whole
thing was boiling over.
391
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:20,705
Why didn't she leave?
392
00:26:21,693 --> 00:26:24,579
I don't know.
I think she was afraid of him.
393
00:26:29,668 --> 00:26:35,039
About two or 3 weeks
into Kathie being gone,
394
00:26:35,090 --> 00:26:36,541
I was really angry.
395
00:26:36,543 --> 00:26:40,294
Because there was so much
that wasn't being done.
396
00:26:42,297 --> 00:26:45,383
So, we went down
into New York City
397
00:26:45,385 --> 00:26:49,353
to have a meeting
with Michael Struk.
398
00:26:49,388 --> 00:26:52,223
I can even recall them coming
from time to time with,
399
00:26:52,274 --> 00:26:55,977
with an entourage...
3, 4, 5 girls.
400
00:26:56,028 --> 00:26:59,280
All really relating
all these incidents
401
00:26:59,314 --> 00:27:01,065
of violence and threats.
402
00:27:02,317 --> 00:27:07,321
And they were kind of...
Eh, you know, laissez faire about it.
403
00:27:07,372 --> 00:27:09,206
They weren't about...
You know, they didn't jump up
404
00:27:09,241 --> 00:27:11,292
and take notes and say,
"Oh, my goodness."
405
00:27:13,128 --> 00:27:15,546
I became a little
annoying to a lot of people.
406
00:27:15,581 --> 00:27:18,716
I became a lot annoying
to some people.
407
00:27:21,420 --> 00:27:24,639
As the case went forward
after a long time,
408
00:27:24,673 --> 00:27:28,259
you know, a lot of these things
became very redundant.
409
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:30,511
"In case something happens to me,
you know, Bob did it."
410
00:27:30,562 --> 00:27:31,562
Blah blah blah.
411
00:27:36,990 --> 00:27:39,284
So, now you've become junior detectives.
412
00:27:39,655 --> 00:27:42,273
- Excuse me, "Senior detectives."
- Senior detectives.
413
00:27:46,945 --> 00:27:50,998
Gilberte got onto
the train at Katonah,
414
00:27:51,033 --> 00:27:57,455
and made the ride on the train
at 9:15 going into the city.
415
00:27:57,457 --> 00:28:00,041
And started asking
everybody on the train
416
00:28:00,092 --> 00:28:01,709
if they had seen Kathie,
417
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,595
showing them
a photograph of Kathie.
418
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:06,631
Nobody had seen her.
419
00:28:08,684 --> 00:28:10,301
I stood outside for shifts.
420
00:28:10,352 --> 00:28:12,186
Like 5 or 6 different shifts,
421
00:28:12,220 --> 00:28:14,105
showing the nurses
a picture of Kathie.
422
00:28:14,139 --> 00:28:15,856
"Is she in there?
Is she in there?
423
00:28:15,891 --> 00:28:17,475
Please tell me she's in there."
424
00:28:17,526 --> 00:28:19,226
And then we're going
to the reservoirs
425
00:28:19,277 --> 00:28:21,362
and we're looking
for tire tracks.
426
00:28:21,396 --> 00:28:28,486
We were just so, um,
motivated to find Kathie no matter what.
427
00:28:28,488 --> 00:28:31,155
Anyway, Ellen became involved.
428
00:28:33,075 --> 00:28:34,208
Ah.
429
00:28:36,161 --> 00:28:38,412
"1982.
430
00:28:38,463 --> 00:28:41,749
Sunday, March 7..."
431
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,835
"Midnight. Met Gilberte.
432
00:28:44,837 --> 00:28:47,672
12:00 to 12:30,
drove to South Salem."
433
00:28:49,591 --> 00:28:53,344
"12:30 to 2:30,
garbage escapade," I called it.
434
00:28:56,014 --> 00:28:57,348
I said to Ellen,
"We're going to steal garbage.
435
00:28:57,399 --> 00:28:59,350
You up for this?"
"Yeah, let's go."
436
00:28:59,352 --> 00:29:02,486
She's my co-conspirator
in crime.
437
00:29:02,521 --> 00:29:05,022
She helps me steal the garbage.
438
00:29:05,073 --> 00:29:08,192
We parked,
and I waited in the car.
439
00:29:08,243 --> 00:29:11,912
I was to have the doors open
so she could throw the garbage in,
440
00:29:11,947 --> 00:29:13,080
and then we took off.
441
00:29:14,166 --> 00:29:16,867
We drove back to her kitchen.
442
00:29:16,918 --> 00:29:18,953
We spread everything
out on the floor.
443
00:29:19,004 --> 00:29:20,421
We started sorting through it.
444
00:29:23,175 --> 00:29:24,709
And that's when we find
he was throwing out
445
00:29:24,711 --> 00:29:27,211
her clothes and her schoolbooks.
446
00:29:27,262 --> 00:29:31,716
And it was like "This man
knows she's not coming back."
447
00:29:34,219 --> 00:29:35,803
And then we found
448
00:29:35,854 --> 00:29:38,639
a piece of paper
in Bob's handwriting
449
00:29:38,690 --> 00:29:41,358
that practically brought us out
in goose bumps.
450
00:29:43,445 --> 00:29:51,445
Town dump, bridge, dig, boat,
other, shovel or?,
451
00:29:52,370 --> 00:29:55,239
car, truck, rent.
452
00:29:57,709 --> 00:30:01,245
This list was a list
of things to do
453
00:30:01,247 --> 00:30:08,903
and how to get rid of...
Or dispose of a body.
454
00:30:08,937 --> 00:30:12,907
"Boat" or "Dig"
or "Bridge" and "Shovel"...
455
00:30:12,941 --> 00:30:19,263
What does that mean to me
in February of 1982?
456
00:30:19,265 --> 00:30:25,486
Um... What are you
going to do with a shovel
457
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,938
in February in South Salem?
458
00:30:27,989 --> 00:30:30,157
I'm sure there's frost.
459
00:30:30,192 --> 00:30:32,660
You're not going to be able
to dig a hole or bury somebody,
460
00:30:32,694 --> 00:30:34,695
if that's what
we would be thinking.
461
00:30:39,951 --> 00:30:42,052
I was so mad
and I was so sure that
462
00:30:42,087 --> 00:30:45,372
he had murdered Kathie
and that he was
463
00:30:45,423 --> 00:30:46,590
going to get away with it.
464
00:30:48,393 --> 00:30:49,960
I was actually stalking him.
465
00:30:49,962 --> 00:30:52,880
I was standing outside
the building and he came out.
466
00:30:52,931 --> 00:30:55,466
And I decided,
"Well, I better act like things are okay,"
467
00:30:55,517 --> 00:30:58,102
so, I come up,
"Oh, Bobby! Bobby!"
468
00:30:58,136 --> 00:30:59,720
And I give him a hug and a kiss,
469
00:30:59,771 --> 00:31:01,222
and "How are you doing?
470
00:31:01,273 --> 00:31:03,357
How are you holding up?"
You know?
471
00:31:03,391 --> 00:31:05,726
I could have just as easily
put my hands around his neck
472
00:31:05,777 --> 00:31:07,577
and choked the life out of him
at that moment.
473
00:31:13,535 --> 00:31:16,871
Trying to get Bob
to respond to any calls
474
00:31:16,905 --> 00:31:18,656
was near impossible.
475
00:31:18,658 --> 00:31:21,325
You didn't even
know where he was.
476
00:31:21,327 --> 00:31:23,828
So, our family was
in New York City,
477
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:26,330
and we actually were
able to get Seymour
478
00:31:26,381 --> 00:31:28,499
to pick up the phone
at his townhouse.
479
00:31:28,550 --> 00:31:31,168
And we got ourselves
basically invited over.
480
00:31:36,341 --> 00:31:37,308
We kept pressing him.
481
00:31:37,342 --> 00:31:40,427
"Seymour, what can you tell us?
How can you help?"
482
00:31:40,478 --> 00:31:41,812
And it was like,
"Well, I don't know anything."
483
00:31:41,847 --> 00:31:43,264
It was like almost defensive.
484
00:31:43,315 --> 00:31:45,900
I hate to use that phrase, but eh,
I should use that phrase.
485
00:31:45,934 --> 00:31:47,067
It was almost defensive.
486
00:31:49,437 --> 00:31:54,291
There was no warmth or empathy
from a guy whose daughter-in-law
487
00:31:54,326 --> 00:31:55,743
is missing under the strangest
488
00:31:55,777 --> 00:31:58,345
and most bizarre
of circumstances.
489
00:31:58,380 --> 00:32:00,531
And the weird thing was a son,
490
00:32:00,582 --> 00:32:02,833
I think it was Tom,
came in in a trench coat.
491
00:32:02,868 --> 00:32:05,369
And, you know, asked his father,
"What's going on here?"
492
00:32:05,420 --> 00:32:08,038
And they had a discussion
that this was
493
00:32:08,089 --> 00:32:09,790
the McCormacks and we're
looking for help
494
00:32:09,824 --> 00:32:11,375
on Kathie's disappearance.
495
00:32:11,377 --> 00:32:14,678
And Tom said,
"This discussion's over."
496
00:32:14,713 --> 00:32:15,713
Just like that.
497
00:32:38,069 --> 00:32:41,405
If she had met some
normal type guy from Long Island,
498
00:32:41,407 --> 00:32:45,876
she would have had a bunch of
kids like her, her siblings.
499
00:32:45,911 --> 00:32:49,246
And she would have lived a...
I hate to say "normal,"
500
00:32:49,297 --> 00:32:50,664
but I don't know
how else to put it...
501
00:32:50,715 --> 00:32:54,718
An average or
something like that life.
502
00:32:54,753 --> 00:33:02,753
It was just finding me,
and then the whole, uh, scenario,
503
00:33:03,311 --> 00:33:05,262
it just kept getting blown up
504
00:33:05,313 --> 00:33:08,098
and getting worse and worse
and worse and worse.
505
00:33:11,938 --> 00:33:14,271
What was the dynamic
between you and Kathie?
506
00:33:16,775 --> 00:33:20,027
I was the dominant one
in the relationship.
507
00:33:20,078 --> 00:33:22,663
I was making all the decisions.
508
00:33:22,697 --> 00:33:24,999
"Calling all the shots,"
as she would say.
509
00:33:26,835 --> 00:33:28,319
And, you know, she went along
510
00:33:28,353 --> 00:33:29,453
with that for a while, and then
511
00:33:29,455 --> 00:33:31,455
she just got tired of it.
512
00:33:31,457 --> 00:33:33,507
She said she wants
her independence.
513
00:33:33,541 --> 00:33:36,210
She doesn't want me to be
controlling her all the time.
514
00:33:37,712 --> 00:33:40,798
Was there a dividing line
when she began that change?
515
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,051
Kathie first started
changing from
516
00:33:44,102 --> 00:33:45,853
the Kathie I met when I made her
517
00:33:45,887 --> 00:33:47,137
get an abortion.
518
00:33:49,774 --> 00:33:51,692
February of '76,
519
00:33:51,726 --> 00:33:53,727
I found out I was pregnant.
520
00:33:53,778 --> 00:33:56,647
We used birth control
and had at one time said
521
00:33:56,698 --> 00:34:00,851
if I was to become pregnant,
I would have an abortion.
522
00:34:00,885 --> 00:34:05,823
The reality of the situation, however,
was problematic for me.
523
00:34:05,825 --> 00:34:07,624
I said,
"I told you from the beginning
524
00:34:07,659 --> 00:34:09,043
"I didn't want children.
525
00:34:09,077 --> 00:34:12,830
"You agreed that we
wouldn't have children.
526
00:34:12,881 --> 00:34:15,749
"Now you're telling me you want a...
You're pregnant,
527
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:22,256
"which, you know,
you're in charge of that stuff, not me.
528
00:34:22,307 --> 00:34:24,174
"And you want to keep the baby.
529
00:34:24,176 --> 00:34:26,310
"Well, you keep the baby,
530
00:34:26,344 --> 00:34:28,679
"you're going to get
divorced from me.
531
00:34:28,681 --> 00:34:30,097
Period."
532
00:34:30,148 --> 00:34:32,649
I mean, you sound like you were
pretty adamant about it, and why...
533
00:34:32,684 --> 00:34:33,817
I was strictly adamant.
534
00:34:33,852 --> 00:34:37,438
I just didn't want kids around.
535
00:34:37,489 --> 00:34:42,026
I didn't want to raise a...
Children.
536
00:34:42,077 --> 00:34:45,779
I, I, I, somehow I thought
I would be a jinx.
537
00:34:48,366 --> 00:34:49,917
That you might be
a jinx for them?
538
00:34:49,951 --> 00:34:51,035
Yeah.
539
00:34:53,338 --> 00:34:55,873
And I, I knew I wasn't
going to be a good father.
540
00:35:03,181 --> 00:35:04,181
A little more than half a year
541
00:35:04,215 --> 00:35:07,051
after she started
at medical school,
542
00:35:07,102 --> 00:35:09,103
she said the two of you
went to a party,
543
00:35:09,137 --> 00:35:10,354
and that you were both drunk,
544
00:35:10,388 --> 00:35:11,638
and you came home and that was
545
00:35:11,689 --> 00:35:13,640
the first time
that she remembers
546
00:35:13,691 --> 00:35:14,641
that you had hit her.
547
00:35:14,692 --> 00:35:15,609
Do you remember that?
548
00:35:15,643 --> 00:35:17,444
No. I don't remember
the first time
549
00:35:17,479 --> 00:35:19,730
I had slapped her or hit her.
550
00:35:19,781 --> 00:35:21,565
Do you remember
other times that, that...?
551
00:35:21,616 --> 00:35:24,618
Well, yeah.
By, by 1981,
552
00:35:24,652 --> 00:35:27,704
our life was half arguments,
553
00:35:27,739 --> 00:35:30,407
fighting, slapping,
pushing, wrestling.
554
00:35:34,462 --> 00:35:37,581
It deteriorated from there on.
555
00:35:37,583 --> 00:35:40,250
It never got better.
It got worse and worse.
556
00:35:44,255 --> 00:35:45,589
So, the night
that she disappeared,
557
00:35:45,591 --> 00:35:47,257
that Sunday night,
or the last night
558
00:35:47,308 --> 00:35:49,226
that you saw her,
do you want to just take me
559
00:35:49,260 --> 00:35:51,428
through what you remember
happening that night?
560
00:35:51,479 --> 00:35:54,148
She's going to Gilberte's
for a party.
561
00:35:54,182 --> 00:35:57,267
She's taking the car.
"Do I want to come?"
562
00:35:57,318 --> 00:35:59,269
Not, "Do you want to go to
Gilberte's for a party?"
563
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,240
but "I'm going to go,
and I'm taking the car.
564
00:36:03,274 --> 00:36:06,110
You can come if you...
Yeah, you want to come?"
565
00:36:06,161 --> 00:36:07,778
"No,
I don't want to come."
566
00:36:09,531 --> 00:36:11,582
That was the weekend.
I didn't like that at all.
567
00:36:16,921 --> 00:36:19,173
She gets back
from Gilberte's maybe
568
00:36:19,207 --> 00:36:20,374
7:00 or whatever.
569
00:36:20,425 --> 00:36:22,126
Angry at me. Loaded.
570
00:36:24,345 --> 00:36:27,014
And announcing that she
wants to go to the city.
571
00:36:29,601 --> 00:36:32,102
I said, "You can go
to the city if you want,
572
00:36:32,137 --> 00:36:33,670
"but you, you know,
you can't drive
573
00:36:33,705 --> 00:36:36,223
because I'm not going
to go to the city."
574
00:36:36,274 --> 00:36:38,308
And she says,
"No, I'm taking the car."
575
00:36:39,644 --> 00:36:41,812
And I went and got
the keys out of the car,
576
00:36:41,814 --> 00:36:44,448
and told her she's
not taking the car
577
00:36:44,482 --> 00:36:46,150
because I'm not
giving her the keys.
578
00:36:48,236 --> 00:36:50,237
That was an argument.
579
00:36:50,288 --> 00:36:52,539
Was that argument
just a verbal argument?
580
00:36:52,574 --> 00:36:54,741
No, that was
a pushing/shoving argument.
581
00:37:05,470 --> 00:37:09,173
And so, eventually, she capitulated
and she agreed to take the 9:17?
582
00:37:09,175 --> 00:37:10,641
At the last minute.
583
00:37:36,501 --> 00:37:39,036
At first, well, she just wasn't
584
00:37:39,087 --> 00:37:40,787
answering her calls.
585
00:37:40,838 --> 00:37:44,007
But she was doing a subintern
in the hospital,
586
00:37:44,042 --> 00:37:47,294
which involves staying over
a lot of nights.
587
00:37:47,345 --> 00:37:48,545
And I wasn't worried.
588
00:37:53,518 --> 00:37:57,287
It wasn't until I got a call
from the medical school,
589
00:37:57,322 --> 00:38:00,657
and she hadn't been
in classes for several days.
590
00:38:00,692 --> 00:38:02,593
And I thought,
"I've got to do something."
591
00:38:05,780 --> 00:38:07,864
I went and I talked to my father
592
00:38:07,899 --> 00:38:10,784
and my brother Douglas,
and they all said,
593
00:38:10,818 --> 00:38:12,119
"You know,
you two have been having
594
00:38:12,153 --> 00:38:14,871
"all these arguments
all these years.
595
00:38:14,906 --> 00:38:18,825
"She's probably just
over there or over there.
596
00:38:18,876 --> 00:38:20,794
"You go and report it
to the police,
597
00:38:20,878 --> 00:38:21,912
"they're not going
to do anything,
598
00:38:21,914 --> 00:38:23,497
"but you're going to
get all this press
599
00:38:23,548 --> 00:38:25,299
dealing with
the family."
600
00:38:25,333 --> 00:38:28,919
They discouraged me from
reporting it to the police
601
00:38:28,970 --> 00:38:31,255
until it got to be
Thursday night.
602
00:38:31,257 --> 00:38:33,173
And then I just felt like
"I'm worried.
603
00:38:33,224 --> 00:38:36,009
This is what I should do."
And I did it.
604
00:38:36,060 --> 00:38:38,895
On my own,
I called the 20th Precinct.
605
00:38:46,271 --> 00:38:48,438
Going into the police
station when you...
606
00:38:48,489 --> 00:38:50,691
- I hated it.
- I didn't want to do it.
607
00:38:50,742 --> 00:38:52,442
The idea of talking to them,
608
00:38:52,444 --> 00:38:54,611
and the idea of trying
to convince them...
609
00:38:54,662 --> 00:38:56,613
Because they at first
didn't want to hear about it.
610
00:38:56,615 --> 00:38:57,948
"Got any problems
in the marriage?"
611
00:38:57,950 --> 00:38:59,166
"Yes."
612
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,119
"Well, don't you think she
probably just took off?
613
00:39:02,121 --> 00:39:04,204
"I mean, obviously,
things weren't good.
614
00:39:04,255 --> 00:39:06,173
She blah blah," like that.
615
00:39:06,207 --> 00:39:08,458
And I said,
"Except for medical school.
616
00:39:08,460 --> 00:39:11,044
She's not going to take off
and not graduate."
617
00:39:13,264 --> 00:39:15,182
I can't really say that
618
00:39:15,216 --> 00:39:17,301
at that point
in my initial meeting
619
00:39:17,352 --> 00:39:20,637
that I could detect that he was
lying on anything he said to me.
620
00:39:20,639 --> 00:39:22,306
Because his story was, was, was
621
00:39:22,357 --> 00:39:24,141
fairly logical as
he laid it out.
622
00:39:28,112 --> 00:39:33,317
New York City Police
had some reason to believe that
623
00:39:33,351 --> 00:39:38,288
Bobby had taken her
to the train station
624
00:39:38,323 --> 00:39:40,957
and possibly come back
here for a drink.
625
00:39:45,831 --> 00:39:49,666
He just, I assume,
fabricated that story,
626
00:39:49,701 --> 00:39:52,803
without ever coming here
for a drink,
627
00:39:52,837 --> 00:39:55,672
nor even discussing
with us in any way.
628
00:39:55,723 --> 00:39:58,675
So, he didn't ask us
to lie for him.
629
00:39:58,726 --> 00:40:01,395
He just, I guess,
kind of fibbed for himself.
630
00:40:02,151 --> 00:40:04,737
Now, Bob's told you this is what happened.
631
00:40:04,820 --> 00:40:07,140
Then you hear from the neighbors
saying this didn't happen.
632
00:40:07,262 --> 00:40:09,686
Yeah, well, what is it?
It's, it's an inconsistency.
633
00:40:09,688 --> 00:40:14,908
It's not...
Mayer could be wrong, too.
634
00:40:14,942 --> 00:40:17,194
So, I, you know, I mean,
really at that point,
635
00:40:17,196 --> 00:40:19,246
it's just another little piece
that you have to kind of
636
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,834
plug in the back and, um,
and go forward.
637
00:40:24,869 --> 00:40:26,453
You told Detective Struk
638
00:40:26,504 --> 00:40:30,173
that the Sunday night
that you last saw Kathie,
639
00:40:30,208 --> 00:40:32,376
you had dropped her off
at the station
640
00:40:32,427 --> 00:40:34,344
And then you went to
the Mayers' for a drink.
641
00:40:34,379 --> 00:40:35,712
The neighbors.
642
00:40:35,763 --> 00:40:37,381
Yeah, that's what
I told the police.
643
00:40:37,383 --> 00:40:39,599
I was hoping that would just
make everything go away.
644
00:40:39,634 --> 00:40:40,634
I didn't go to the Mayers'.
645
00:40:40,685 --> 00:40:42,185
I took her to the train station,
646
00:40:42,220 --> 00:40:43,720
went home, and went to sleep.
647
00:40:47,275 --> 00:40:49,643
And why, why would that have
made everything go away?
648
00:40:50,778 --> 00:40:51,862
I don't know.
I'm at the Mayers'.
649
00:40:51,896 --> 00:40:53,697
They wanted to hear,
"What did you do?,"
650
00:40:53,731 --> 00:40:56,733
so, I told them I did that.
651
00:40:56,735 --> 00:40:58,652
I, I just never got
through my mind...
652
00:40:58,703 --> 00:40:59,903
it was like a negotiation.
653
00:40:59,954 --> 00:41:03,490
You tell somebody something,
and, well, that's it.
654
00:41:03,541 --> 00:41:06,960
They don't go back there.
They don't look for motive.
655
00:41:06,994 --> 00:41:09,713
"Why is he telling me this?"
kind of thing.
656
00:41:09,747 --> 00:41:11,998
I thought that
would get them to,
657
00:41:12,049 --> 00:41:13,800
you know, leave me alone,
658
00:41:13,835 --> 00:41:16,303
accept the missing person,
like that.
659
00:41:26,097 --> 00:41:27,564
There was some
discussion about...
660
00:41:27,598 --> 00:41:29,399
That you spoke to her
at some point.
661
00:41:29,434 --> 00:41:31,735
- Yes, yes.
- That was the last part of my,
662
00:41:31,769 --> 00:41:33,904
you know, "The police are going to
leave you alone now."
663
00:41:33,938 --> 00:41:37,858
I say, I said,
"I called her."
664
00:41:37,909 --> 00:41:42,028
And I said, "I stopped at
a pay phone on the way home."
665
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:44,281
Or "I went out for a walk later,
666
00:41:44,332 --> 00:41:47,284
"and I, and I called her
from the pay phone.
667
00:41:47,286 --> 00:41:50,003
"She answered the, the phone.
668
00:41:50,037 --> 00:41:52,422
And that puts her
in the city."
669
00:41:52,457 --> 00:41:55,542
And they were going
to leave me alone now.
670
00:41:56,961 --> 00:41:59,596
Did you end up speaking
to her that night?
671
00:41:59,630 --> 00:42:00,630
No.
672
00:42:30,995 --> 00:42:33,330
We really did trust the police
673
00:42:33,332 --> 00:42:34,965
and the procedure,
674
00:42:34,999 --> 00:42:37,417
and you know,
admittedly it failed.
675
00:42:37,468 --> 00:42:38,502
Failed Kathie.
676
00:42:40,972 --> 00:42:47,677
I felt very, very angry,
frustrated, stonewalled,
677
00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:51,231
in being able to get Bob.
678
00:42:51,265 --> 00:42:55,068
Bob got away with
murdering Kathie.
679
00:42:55,102 --> 00:42:56,520
He got away with it.
680
00:42:58,990 --> 00:43:00,774
There's no corpse.
681
00:43:00,825 --> 00:43:02,442
We don't even have
a crime scene.
682
00:43:04,912 --> 00:43:06,663
No corpse, no crime scene.
683
00:43:06,697 --> 00:43:09,833
We got...
This is a missing persons case.
684
00:43:16,874 --> 00:43:20,710
I really believe
that some way, somehow,
685
00:43:20,712 --> 00:43:23,680
somebody's going to come and
tell me what happened to Kathie.
686
00:43:23,714 --> 00:43:27,767
And if I don't get that,
I'll sit there as an old woman
687
00:43:27,802 --> 00:43:31,054
wondering what I did wrong,
and how I let my friend down.
688
00:43:31,105 --> 00:43:33,023
Because I need to know.
689
00:43:33,057 --> 00:43:35,604
I need to know
what happened to Kathie.