1 00:00:25,391 --> 00:00:26,674 She had everything to live for, 2 00:00:26,726 --> 00:00:28,309 and yet she just disappeared. 3 00:00:28,344 --> 00:00:30,311 Now new and alarming questions are being raised 4 00:00:30,346 --> 00:00:33,014 about what happened to a young wife and medical student 5 00:00:33,016 --> 00:00:35,566 here in New York some 20 years ago. 6 00:00:37,687 --> 00:00:40,187 Two decades later, Kathie Durst is suddenly 7 00:00:40,239 --> 00:00:42,740 more than a memory, thanks to a tip 8 00:00:42,775 --> 00:00:45,276 from a defendant in an unrelated case. 9 00:00:46,579 --> 00:00:50,197 I had arrested an individual named Timothy Martin. 10 00:00:50,249 --> 00:00:52,033 And Timmy was arrested for 11 00:00:52,035 --> 00:00:53,451 several counts of public lewdness. 12 00:00:53,503 --> 00:00:57,004 He was basically exposing himself to women. 13 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,041 He was convicted, and shortly before sentencing, 14 00:01:00,093 --> 00:01:02,209 his attorney contacted me and stated that 15 00:01:02,211 --> 00:01:04,295 Timmy wanted to sit down with me and talk to me 16 00:01:04,347 --> 00:01:06,347 about some information he had on an old murder 17 00:01:06,382 --> 00:01:08,432 that occurred up here in Northern Westchester. 18 00:01:11,564 --> 00:01:13,971 What he stated was that he had heard that there was 19 00:01:14,023 --> 00:01:19,276 a young woman named Kathie Durst who was murdered by her husband 20 00:01:19,312 --> 00:01:21,529 at their cottage up in South Salem. 21 00:01:23,616 --> 00:01:25,232 I remember that day the little, red light 22 00:01:25,234 --> 00:01:27,151 was flashing on my answering machine, 23 00:01:27,203 --> 00:01:30,071 and I hit the button and it was Joe Becerra. 24 00:01:32,658 --> 00:01:35,659 And he said, "We're looking into the Kathie Durst case." 25 00:01:35,712 --> 00:01:37,461 My heart almost stopped. 26 00:01:37,497 --> 00:01:41,298 Explosion. This whole set of fireworks that went out 27 00:01:41,334 --> 00:01:44,969 that was like hope has been regenerated. 28 00:01:45,004 --> 00:01:46,504 We were, like, stunned. 29 00:01:46,556 --> 00:01:47,722 I mean, you know, it's, you know, it's, 30 00:01:47,757 --> 00:01:51,425 don't forget it's almost 20 years after the fact. 31 00:01:51,477 --> 00:01:54,428 And all of a sudden, Kathie's disappearance 32 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,432 may be close at hand in terms of a solution. 33 00:02:01,521 --> 00:02:03,237 These two guys pulled up in a car, 34 00:02:03,272 --> 00:02:06,607 and they came onto the property and said they were detectives 35 00:02:06,659 --> 00:02:09,910 and could they come in and look at something in the house 36 00:02:09,946 --> 00:02:11,612 and ask me a couple questions. 37 00:02:13,282 --> 00:02:16,867 They looked into a closet, and they took a shelf down 38 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:22,623 and they started pulling things out and dug back to an area that 39 00:02:22,675 --> 00:02:24,508 I didn't even know existed in my house. 40 00:02:26,179 --> 00:02:28,429 I guess they were looking for a weapon or, you know, 41 00:02:28,464 --> 00:02:29,797 bloodstains or something. 42 00:02:32,051 --> 00:02:33,684 No one had ever searched the house. 43 00:02:33,719 --> 00:02:35,352 No one had ever attempted to search the house, 44 00:02:35,388 --> 00:02:38,055 search the lake, search anywhere else. 45 00:02:38,107 --> 00:02:41,475 I mean, it was very telling that there was a whole area 46 00:02:41,477 --> 00:02:43,194 that needed to be investigated. 47 00:02:43,229 --> 00:02:45,479 That this case was not investigated 48 00:02:45,481 --> 00:02:46,864 the way it should have been. 49 00:02:46,899 --> 00:02:48,616 No one even looked at it. 50 00:02:48,651 --> 00:02:51,118 You know, starting at square one. 51 00:04:40,263 --> 00:04:42,229 Is Robert Durst a suspect? 52 00:04:42,265 --> 00:04:45,266 We're not ruling him in and we're not ruling him out. 53 00:04:45,268 --> 00:04:46,934 He certainly was a person who had 54 00:04:46,986 --> 00:04:49,737 the most information about Kathleen Durst. 55 00:04:51,190 --> 00:04:53,440 So, you hear about this investigation. 56 00:04:53,442 --> 00:04:54,942 You read the article. 57 00:04:54,944 --> 00:04:56,443 And it blew me away. 58 00:04:56,495 --> 00:05:00,497 Absolutely, totally blew me away. 59 00:05:00,533 --> 00:05:03,834 I'd never heard the name Jeanine Pirro before. 60 00:05:03,869 --> 00:05:07,371 And I was told about Jeanine Pirro. 61 00:05:07,423 --> 00:05:09,373 Has higher aspirations. 62 00:05:09,425 --> 00:05:13,177 Wants to run for something big statewide. 63 00:05:13,212 --> 00:05:17,298 I wasn't the least bit concerned about the details. 64 00:05:17,300 --> 00:05:22,303 The divers searched the lake until you're blue in the face. 65 00:05:22,355 --> 00:05:25,522 You took a wall out of the house. Ridiculous. 66 00:05:25,558 --> 00:05:27,274 What were the divers for? 67 00:05:27,310 --> 00:05:29,310 Obviously, they were looking for body parts, 68 00:05:29,362 --> 00:05:31,528 looking for something that can be used as evidence. 69 00:05:33,749 --> 00:05:36,584 But what they don't announce is what they found. 70 00:05:39,090 --> 00:05:40,508 And what did they find? 71 00:05:41,907 --> 00:05:44,959 Uh, nothing of evidentiary value. 72 00:05:46,579 --> 00:05:50,798 I remember being disappointed, uh, you know, 73 00:05:50,833 --> 00:05:54,001 that nothing came up in the search. 74 00:05:54,053 --> 00:05:56,503 But it also piqued my interest. 75 00:05:56,555 --> 00:05:58,839 Because I knew, based upon whether it was 76 00:05:58,891 --> 00:06:01,725 the inconsistent statements or, you know, 77 00:06:01,761 --> 00:06:03,761 the prosecutors, or the cops, 78 00:06:03,813 --> 00:06:05,312 that there was something more here. 79 00:06:07,516 --> 00:06:09,650 My name's Ed Murphy. I'm a senior investigator 80 00:06:09,685 --> 00:06:11,402 with the Westchester District Attorney's Office. 81 00:06:11,437 --> 00:06:13,771 I've been in law enforcement approximately 40 years. 82 00:06:15,408 --> 00:06:16,690 Now with the case being reopened, 83 00:06:16,742 --> 00:06:18,692 and it's being looked at again, 84 00:06:18,694 --> 00:06:20,160 certain things come to the surface. 85 00:06:20,196 --> 00:06:23,197 And the decision was made by my office 86 00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:25,666 to explore this and see what we can do. 87 00:06:28,037 --> 00:06:29,837 So, we went back and we reinterviewed 88 00:06:29,872 --> 00:06:32,673 everybody who was interviewed 20 years prior. 89 00:06:34,377 --> 00:06:36,377 When I started speaking with Kathie's friends, 90 00:06:36,429 --> 00:06:41,932 they all said to me that I should speak to Susan Berman. 91 00:06:44,053 --> 00:06:45,519 That she was a very close friend of Bobby's. 92 00:06:45,554 --> 00:06:48,022 That they were close since college. 93 00:06:48,057 --> 00:06:49,723 That when Kathie went missing, 94 00:06:49,775 --> 00:06:53,143 she protected Bobby from the press. 95 00:06:53,195 --> 00:06:56,280 And they basically told me if anyone knows anything 96 00:06:56,315 --> 00:06:59,149 about Kathie's disappearance, it would be Susan Berman. 97 00:07:03,091 --> 00:07:06,594 Did you meet Susan Berman at UCLA? 98 00:07:07,220 --> 00:07:09,931 Yes, my very first summer there I met Susan. 99 00:07:10,473 --> 00:07:12,558 We became best friends right away. 100 00:07:13,174 --> 00:07:15,499 Susan and I would spend a lot of time together, 101 00:07:15,551 --> 00:07:19,803 we could talk, we had the thing in common, 102 00:07:19,839 --> 00:07:23,424 both of her parents died when she was young, 103 00:07:23,426 --> 00:07:26,510 and I had one parent die when I was young. 104 00:07:26,562 --> 00:07:28,645 And her background? 105 00:07:28,681 --> 00:07:33,650 Rich, Las Vegas, mobster father. 106 00:07:39,275 --> 00:07:40,858 This happy, little girl was 5 years old 107 00:07:40,910 --> 00:07:42,409 when this snapshot was taken. 108 00:07:42,445 --> 00:07:43,944 Her mother had been a tap dancer, 109 00:07:43,996 --> 00:07:46,029 but gave it up when she married. 110 00:07:46,082 --> 00:07:49,850 Her father was rich and powerful and doted on his only child. 111 00:07:49,885 --> 00:07:51,385 That little girl today is Susan Berman. 112 00:07:51,420 --> 00:07:53,854 And she's the author of Easy Street. 113 00:07:53,889 --> 00:07:55,756 You grew up to age of 21 114 00:07:55,791 --> 00:07:58,292 not knowing that your dad was a gangster. 115 00:07:58,344 --> 00:07:59,960 How'd you finally find out? 116 00:08:00,012 --> 00:08:01,795 A friend at UCLA, Jane, asked me 117 00:08:01,797 --> 00:08:02,963 if I'd seen a certain crime book 118 00:08:03,015 --> 00:08:04,181 that just came out. 119 00:08:04,266 --> 00:08:05,299 And I said, "No." 120 00:08:05,351 --> 00:08:07,468 And I ran to the store in Los Angeles and looked, 121 00:08:07,470 --> 00:08:09,136 and there was my father, described as 122 00:08:09,188 --> 00:08:10,521 an ex-con from Sing Sing 123 00:08:10,556 --> 00:08:12,856 who'd kill a man with one hand behind his back. 124 00:08:15,561 --> 00:08:19,062 He was tied in with the so-called 125 00:08:19,115 --> 00:08:21,031 "Murder Incorporated." 126 00:08:21,066 --> 00:08:22,816 After all, he was a bank robber 127 00:08:22,818 --> 00:08:24,535 at one time, you know. 128 00:08:24,570 --> 00:08:26,120 So... 129 00:08:28,457 --> 00:08:31,258 She was quite proud of him. 130 00:08:31,293 --> 00:08:33,744 And he was bigger than life. 131 00:08:33,796 --> 00:08:37,831 So, yes, she does, yes, she deified him. 132 00:08:39,251 --> 00:08:42,836 She even had his mug shot framed in the living room. 133 00:08:46,058 --> 00:08:48,509 Something happened when she met Bobby Durst. 134 00:08:48,511 --> 00:08:53,013 It was like "Here's a man as powerful as my father. 135 00:08:53,065 --> 00:08:55,182 "He is connected. 136 00:08:55,234 --> 00:08:57,100 "He has money. 137 00:08:57,153 --> 00:09:00,154 "He can always get out of trouble. 138 00:09:00,189 --> 00:09:01,605 And he needs me." 139 00:09:01,657 --> 00:09:03,941 And she always used to say, "He needs me." 140 00:09:06,779 --> 00:09:08,362 "We have a special friendship." 141 00:09:18,757 --> 00:09:20,958 19 years ago, Robert Durst told police 142 00:09:21,010 --> 00:09:22,960 he had driven his wife from their country house 143 00:09:23,012 --> 00:09:26,964 in South Salem, New York, to this nearby train station, 144 00:09:27,016 --> 00:09:29,299 where she boarded the city-bound train, 145 00:09:29,351 --> 00:09:31,268 headed for their Manhattan apartment 146 00:09:31,303 --> 00:09:33,220 and a busy week at medical school. 147 00:09:35,808 --> 00:09:38,725 But no one close to Kathie would see her again. 148 00:09:43,949 --> 00:09:45,616 "The beautiful wife of a wealthy Manhattan 149 00:09:45,651 --> 00:09:47,985 real estate developer has disappeared." 150 00:09:49,538 --> 00:09:53,323 "There has been no trace of sandy-haired Kathleen Durst, 29, 151 00:09:53,375 --> 00:09:57,044 "since January 31, when she returned to her penthouse 152 00:09:57,079 --> 00:09:59,630 "after a weekend in the country. 153 00:09:59,665 --> 00:10:02,549 "The doorman at 37 Riverside Drive 154 00:10:02,585 --> 00:10:04,801 "saw her arrive home that Sunday evening 155 00:10:04,837 --> 00:10:06,220 and go to her apartment." 156 00:10:08,841 --> 00:10:11,358 This would not be information gleaned from the police. 157 00:10:11,393 --> 00:10:14,428 We wouldn't give that out. 158 00:10:14,430 --> 00:10:18,565 It's being fed to the newspaper at that time 159 00:10:18,601 --> 00:10:20,067 from the Durst side. 160 00:10:25,691 --> 00:10:29,826 When Kathie disappeared, I saw the media was calling. 161 00:10:29,862 --> 00:10:33,747 I told Susan, "I got a call from this reporter and this reporter. 162 00:10:33,782 --> 00:10:36,667 Could you call them back and you just handle it?" 163 00:10:36,702 --> 00:10:38,368 Since she was a writer, 164 00:10:38,420 --> 00:10:41,622 she was used to dealing with the press. 165 00:10:41,624 --> 00:10:45,175 Susan took it upon herself to become his spokesperson. 166 00:10:49,048 --> 00:10:52,766 She was facilitating a story that established the fact 167 00:10:52,801 --> 00:10:55,636 that Kathie arrived in Manhattan alive. 168 00:10:57,473 --> 00:11:01,892 Bob and Susan were in a concerted campaign 169 00:11:01,944 --> 00:11:04,478 to plant these ideas out there, 170 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,482 and already people are starting to pick up on them. 171 00:11:08,534 --> 00:11:10,817 So, it becomes that much more difficult 172 00:11:10,819 --> 00:11:12,819 to find out what really happened. 173 00:11:18,661 --> 00:11:21,044 If you reconstruct the case of Kathie, 174 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,666 there were several people who saw Kathie 175 00:11:25,718 --> 00:11:27,751 when we know she was dead. 176 00:11:27,803 --> 00:11:30,053 And she was heard from Monday morning. 177 00:11:30,139 --> 00:11:31,672 Mrs. Durst was a fourth year medical student 178 00:11:31,724 --> 00:11:34,007 here at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, 179 00:11:34,059 --> 00:11:36,593 and she was to have a clinic class that morning, 180 00:11:36,645 --> 00:11:39,062 but she called up saying she wasn't feeling well 181 00:11:39,098 --> 00:11:40,681 and she wouldn't be in that day. 182 00:11:40,683 --> 00:11:43,016 And as far as police know, that's the last time 183 00:11:43,018 --> 00:11:45,435 that anyone had contact with her. 184 00:11:45,487 --> 00:11:47,604 The dean at the medical school, 185 00:11:47,656 --> 00:11:51,191 obviously somebody was, um, 186 00:11:51,243 --> 00:11:53,193 assisted Mr. Durst in calling him. 187 00:11:54,958 --> 00:11:56,585 Who do you think that might have been? 188 00:11:56,699 --> 00:11:59,116 Well, sitting here today, it's, it, 189 00:11:59,168 --> 00:12:02,119 my, my money would be that it was Susan Berman. 190 00:12:11,513 --> 00:12:14,464 In our minds, Kathie made it to Manhattan. 191 00:12:14,516 --> 00:12:21,138 So, with luck and a little bit of... cunning, 192 00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:22,222 it slipped through. 193 00:12:22,224 --> 00:12:26,193 He got that one past us, I guess. 194 00:12:26,228 --> 00:12:28,528 I think we all know now, 30 years later, 195 00:12:28,564 --> 00:12:31,898 that anything Bob says you have to question, you know. 196 00:12:31,950 --> 00:12:33,550 I don't think they thought that way then. 197 00:12:37,956 --> 00:12:39,990 You want to talk about the guts of our case? 198 00:12:40,042 --> 00:12:41,241 The guts of our case is that 199 00:12:41,293 --> 00:12:44,511 Kathie Durst and Bob Durst were married. 200 00:12:44,546 --> 00:12:46,380 The marriage spun out of control. 201 00:12:46,415 --> 00:12:49,416 Became increasingly volatile. 202 00:12:49,418 --> 00:12:51,918 We found out she asked him for a divorce. 203 00:12:51,970 --> 00:12:53,086 Got a divorce attorney. 204 00:12:55,140 --> 00:12:57,758 That prior Thursday before she went missing, 205 00:12:57,810 --> 00:12:59,843 Kathie's attorney told her that Bob Durst 206 00:12:59,895 --> 00:13:03,680 had turned down their request for an agreement on a divorce. 207 00:13:03,732 --> 00:13:06,650 So, 3 days prior to this, you know, 208 00:13:06,685 --> 00:13:08,318 Bob's turning down this settlement 209 00:13:08,353 --> 00:13:10,437 that she wants in this divorce, 210 00:13:10,489 --> 00:13:12,439 and they're going up there together. 211 00:13:18,497 --> 00:13:21,615 At the time of her disappearance, 212 00:13:21,667 --> 00:13:25,786 they were together in the upstate house in South Salem. 213 00:13:25,788 --> 00:13:29,339 And there is no evidence, credible evidence, 214 00:13:29,374 --> 00:13:30,924 that she ever left South Salem. 215 00:13:38,967 --> 00:13:40,967 I don't know how he killed her, but 216 00:13:41,019 --> 00:13:43,179 I don't think she ever got on a train, that's for sure. 217 00:14:02,825 --> 00:14:04,124 Did you have anything to do 218 00:14:04,159 --> 00:14:05,709 with the death of your wife? 219 00:14:05,744 --> 00:14:07,410 I don't know that she's dead. 220 00:14:08,831 --> 00:14:10,997 Do you think that it's possible that she's alive now? 221 00:14:11,049 --> 00:14:15,469 It's possible. Not likely. 222 00:14:15,504 --> 00:14:16,504 It's not what I think. 223 00:14:16,555 --> 00:14:18,505 I think she's almost definitely dead. 224 00:14:18,557 --> 00:14:22,008 But I don't know that she's dead. 225 00:14:22,060 --> 00:14:24,344 So, to put a finer point on it, 226 00:14:24,396 --> 00:14:25,479 did you have anything to do 227 00:14:25,514 --> 00:14:27,764 with the disappearance of your wife? 228 00:14:27,816 --> 00:14:30,267 No. I don't know where she is. 229 00:14:30,319 --> 00:14:31,685 I don't know what happened to her. 230 00:14:31,737 --> 00:14:34,938 I don't know how it happened to her. 231 00:14:34,990 --> 00:14:38,692 I had nothing to do with what happened to her, 232 00:14:38,744 --> 00:14:43,947 except very, um, obliquely or whatever you would... 233 00:14:43,999 --> 00:14:46,416 It was a bad marriage and that was at least half, 234 00:14:46,451 --> 00:14:48,752 probably a lot more, my fault. 235 00:14:48,787 --> 00:14:50,837 But other than that, I had nothing to do with 236 00:14:50,873 --> 00:14:52,672 what caused her or what happened 237 00:14:52,708 --> 00:14:56,793 to her disappearance, in her disappearance. 238 00:15:04,219 --> 00:15:06,553 When he gives his original statement to the police, 239 00:15:06,555 --> 00:15:08,355 he leaves the car at home. 240 00:15:08,390 --> 00:15:10,557 Doesn't bring it into the city. 241 00:15:10,559 --> 00:15:11,858 Doesn't have the car the day 242 00:15:11,894 --> 00:15:13,860 he reports her missing, you know? 243 00:15:13,896 --> 00:15:16,279 Maybe he was afraid to have the car there, 244 00:15:16,315 --> 00:15:18,398 because they might want to search it or look at it. 245 00:15:21,203 --> 00:15:23,820 He probably took Kathie, put her in the trunk of the car, 246 00:15:23,872 --> 00:15:26,072 and got rid of her somewhere. 247 00:15:28,994 --> 00:15:32,329 We did some phone record sweeping, and we found that 248 00:15:32,381 --> 00:15:34,748 some of the phone records show that the Durst Organization 249 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,667 got collect phone calls from Ship Bottom, New Jersey, 250 00:15:37,719 --> 00:15:39,920 on Tuesday, after Kathie's disappearance. 251 00:15:42,057 --> 00:15:44,391 We were able to track down where those calls came from. 252 00:15:44,426 --> 00:15:48,261 And there was a coin-operated phone in the laundromat. 253 00:15:49,731 --> 00:15:51,982 Now, how do we know that Bob Durst made those calls? 254 00:15:52,017 --> 00:15:54,267 Well, one of the things we know is that there are only 255 00:15:54,319 --> 00:15:57,437 two people who made collect calls to the Durst Organization. 256 00:15:57,489 --> 00:15:59,105 We know that from the people who worked there. 257 00:15:59,157 --> 00:16:01,241 And one of those people was Bob Durst. 258 00:16:01,276 --> 00:16:03,526 The other person was Seymour. 259 00:16:03,579 --> 00:16:06,613 So, Seymour undoubtedly wasn't in Ship Bottom that day. 260 00:16:13,205 --> 00:16:15,088 You used to call the office collect. 261 00:16:15,123 --> 00:16:16,289 Oh, all the time. 262 00:16:16,291 --> 00:16:18,875 - Tell me about that. - I would call the office collect. 263 00:16:20,963 --> 00:16:23,213 Why did you do that? 264 00:16:23,265 --> 00:16:27,183 I didn't want to pay for it. Let Seymour pay for it. 265 00:16:27,219 --> 00:16:29,970 The only reason I'm calling is because he wants me to call. 266 00:16:31,473 --> 00:16:34,975 There were a series of collect calls 267 00:16:34,977 --> 00:16:37,527 made from Ship Bottom, New Jersey. 268 00:16:39,648 --> 00:16:41,615 That's on the coast somewhere. 269 00:16:41,650 --> 00:16:44,651 - Yeah. - So, there are 3 calls made 270 00:16:44,703 --> 00:16:46,987 to the Durst Organization from Ship Bottom. 271 00:16:46,989 --> 00:16:48,788 Now, you were the collect call guy, 272 00:16:48,824 --> 00:16:50,323 so, I think the speculation is 273 00:16:50,375 --> 00:16:52,375 "Well, Bob must have made those phone calls." 274 00:16:52,411 --> 00:16:53,994 Except Bob didn't make those calls. 275 00:16:54,046 --> 00:16:56,046 Bob was not in Ship Bottom. 276 00:16:57,833 --> 00:16:59,833 Can you think of any reason why 277 00:16:59,885 --> 00:17:01,668 these phone calls, these collect calls, 278 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,336 would be made to the Durst Organization 279 00:17:03,388 --> 00:17:04,471 during the day? 280 00:17:04,506 --> 00:17:07,557 I have no idea who made the calls. 281 00:17:07,592 --> 00:17:09,175 Were there other people that you knew of 282 00:17:09,177 --> 00:17:12,012 that would make collect calls to the company? 283 00:17:12,064 --> 00:17:13,513 Several. Yes. 284 00:17:16,151 --> 00:17:17,934 Yes. 285 00:17:17,986 --> 00:17:20,186 Executives? Or family members? 286 00:17:22,107 --> 00:17:24,357 Somebody had a, had a beach house 287 00:17:24,409 --> 00:17:26,609 and was calling and, and getting 288 00:17:26,662 --> 00:17:29,579 one of the receptionists... Not the usual receptionist... 289 00:17:29,614 --> 00:17:31,164 To accept the calls. 290 00:17:34,002 --> 00:17:35,618 That had happened periodically 291 00:17:35,671 --> 00:17:38,788 that spring and summer and fall. 292 00:17:42,210 --> 00:17:45,295 Make no mistake, we went digging looking for a body. 293 00:17:45,347 --> 00:17:48,548 I mean, you know, we know that he was in New Jersey 294 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,467 within a couple of days of her disappearance. 295 00:18:00,112 --> 00:18:01,778 Do you have any thought about where she is? 296 00:18:01,813 --> 00:18:03,730 About where her body might be? 297 00:18:03,782 --> 00:18:06,232 I have no idea. 298 00:18:06,234 --> 00:18:08,868 Wouldn't know how to begin. 299 00:18:08,904 --> 00:18:12,155 Wouldn't know if her body... If she was dead... I would not know 300 00:18:12,207 --> 00:18:15,909 if her body would be in the State of New York, 301 00:18:15,961 --> 00:18:17,243 or in the State of New Jersey 302 00:18:17,295 --> 00:18:21,548 or in the Northern Hemisphere, or anything like that. 303 00:18:26,254 --> 00:18:27,254 If you go to Ship Bottom 304 00:18:27,305 --> 00:18:29,422 and the area surrounding the Pine Barrens, 305 00:18:29,474 --> 00:18:32,092 you see ample, ample real estate 306 00:18:32,094 --> 00:18:33,494 where he could have dumped the body. 307 00:18:37,015 --> 00:18:39,899 It's actually a place where mob bosses 308 00:18:39,935 --> 00:18:41,651 used to order that bodies be dumped. 309 00:18:44,439 --> 00:18:46,489 And what connection is that? Well, Susan Berman, 310 00:18:46,525 --> 00:18:49,409 who was very friendly with Bob at the time, 311 00:18:49,444 --> 00:18:50,410 had a lot of connections 312 00:18:50,445 --> 00:18:52,005 and a lot of friends in organized crime. 313 00:18:56,535 --> 00:18:58,501 I would say that Susan would do anything 314 00:18:58,537 --> 00:19:00,537 to help her close friends. 315 00:19:01,923 --> 00:19:04,040 No matter the situation. Mm-hmm. 316 00:19:05,043 --> 00:19:06,960 She was... She was loyal. 317 00:19:07,012 --> 00:19:10,463 I think she was a loyal soul to the end. 318 00:19:17,139 --> 00:19:19,022 What was your relationship with Susan Berman 319 00:19:19,057 --> 00:19:21,057 over all those years? 320 00:19:21,109 --> 00:19:23,143 When Kathie disappeared, 321 00:19:23,145 --> 00:19:24,978 initially the first several years, 322 00:19:25,030 --> 00:19:27,730 Susan was living, still living in New York. 323 00:19:27,783 --> 00:19:30,984 And I saw her frequently in New York. 324 00:19:30,986 --> 00:19:33,903 Then she moved to Los Angeles. 325 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,541 I went online and I traced Susan Berman 326 00:19:38,577 --> 00:19:41,327 from Beekman Place all the way out 327 00:19:41,329 --> 00:19:44,247 to Benedict Canyon in California. 328 00:19:44,299 --> 00:19:48,334 I gave the police a map to her door. 329 00:19:48,386 --> 00:19:52,088 And I said, "Whatever you do, interview this woman. 330 00:19:52,140 --> 00:19:54,340 "She knows more than she's saying. 331 00:19:54,426 --> 00:19:55,675 "She's a good friend of Bob's. 332 00:19:55,677 --> 00:19:58,344 Maybe she won't tell you anything, but maybe she will." 333 00:19:59,681 --> 00:20:02,148 We had a conversation in which I said, "Susan, 334 00:20:02,184 --> 00:20:05,068 "did you see the piece in the New York Times 335 00:20:05,103 --> 00:20:08,521 about Kathie Durst's case being reopened?" 336 00:20:08,523 --> 00:20:10,356 And she said, "Julie, don't talk to me about that. 337 00:20:10,408 --> 00:20:12,575 "I don't want to talk about that. 338 00:20:12,611 --> 00:20:14,444 They're out to get Bobby." 339 00:20:14,496 --> 00:20:15,578 That's what she said. 340 00:20:25,707 --> 00:20:28,258 Did you have contact with Susan around that same time? 341 00:20:28,293 --> 00:20:29,425 Yes. 342 00:20:29,461 --> 00:20:31,794 What did she say, if you remember? 343 00:20:31,847 --> 00:20:34,714 - She wrote, "Oh, Bobby. - This is terrible for you. 344 00:20:34,716 --> 00:20:38,301 I hate that you have to go through this." 345 00:20:38,353 --> 00:20:39,719 But you heard from her that she had been 346 00:20:39,771 --> 00:20:40,720 contacted by the police? 347 00:20:40,772 --> 00:20:42,856 - Yes. - What did she say? 348 00:20:42,891 --> 00:20:45,108 "The Los Angeles Police contacted me. 349 00:20:45,143 --> 00:20:48,528 They want to talk to me about Kathie Durst's disappearance." 350 00:20:51,399 --> 00:20:53,900 Something happens to Susan then. 351 00:20:53,952 --> 00:20:58,071 Oh, not long after that, Susan Berman was murdered. 352 00:20:58,073 --> 00:21:01,074 Around Christmas of 2000. 353 00:21:43,087 --> 00:21:45,589 Tell me about the last time you saw her. 354 00:21:45,754 --> 00:21:47,203 Yeah, I was going to Europe for, 355 00:21:47,255 --> 00:21:50,039 like, 3-ish weeks for the holiday. 356 00:21:50,091 --> 00:21:51,811 And my, I had no parking in my neighborhood, 357 00:21:51,843 --> 00:21:53,376 so, I parked my car in the garage, 358 00:21:53,428 --> 00:21:55,545 and Susan kept her car here. 359 00:21:55,597 --> 00:21:58,348 And we hung out and sort of exchanged 360 00:21:58,383 --> 00:22:01,467 gifts and cards and well wishes, 361 00:22:01,469 --> 00:22:04,137 and then the taxi came and, you know, we said, "I love you," 362 00:22:04,139 --> 00:22:05,638 and I got in the taxi and left. 363 00:22:14,118 --> 00:22:17,079 When did Susan Berman first become a part of your life? 364 00:22:17,246 --> 00:22:18,901 I met her at 13. 365 00:22:18,954 --> 00:22:21,321 She, uh, had started dating my father. 366 00:22:23,158 --> 00:22:25,708 We moved in with her, uh, 367 00:22:25,744 --> 00:22:28,628 I want to say, like, a year into their dating. 368 00:22:31,499 --> 00:22:36,419 Because of how light, happy, joyous, quick, 369 00:22:36,471 --> 00:22:39,505 brilliant, aware she was, 370 00:22:39,507 --> 00:22:43,810 daily life was fascinating and fun. 371 00:22:43,845 --> 00:22:46,262 She laughs a lot. She laughed a lot. 372 00:22:46,314 --> 00:22:50,933 And, um, you know, frivolously spent a lot. 373 00:22:50,986 --> 00:22:54,103 And everything could be turned into a story. 374 00:22:56,274 --> 00:22:58,524 She came alive for those few years 375 00:22:58,576 --> 00:23:00,360 that she became their mother. 376 00:23:00,362 --> 00:23:04,447 It was, it was just, it was wonderful to see. 377 00:23:04,499 --> 00:23:07,617 When the relationship of their father's was breaking up, 378 00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:11,537 both of these kids, willingly and together, 379 00:23:11,539 --> 00:23:14,590 made the declaration that they are choosing 380 00:23:14,626 --> 00:23:16,542 to live with their mother Susan. 381 00:23:18,813 --> 00:23:23,299 When I called and she didn't pick up Christmas Eve, 382 00:23:23,351 --> 00:23:25,685 obviously I didn't know what, but something was wrong. 383 00:23:27,689 --> 00:23:28,938 Well, I called because 384 00:23:28,973 --> 00:23:31,224 she was late for dinner by a half-hour, 385 00:23:31,226 --> 00:23:33,643 and she was always very, very punctual 386 00:23:33,695 --> 00:23:35,695 when it came to little family dos. 387 00:23:39,951 --> 00:23:41,951 I said, "Susie. It's Deni. 388 00:23:41,986 --> 00:23:44,904 "Um, I hope you didn't confuse tonight with tomorrow night. 389 00:23:44,956 --> 00:23:46,823 "I've got Koo Koo Roo. We're waiting for you. 390 00:23:46,875 --> 00:23:48,708 "Tommy's hungry. Mom's hungry. 391 00:23:48,743 --> 00:23:50,410 Where are you?" 392 00:23:50,462 --> 00:23:54,330 So, then the phone did pick up. It was a man's voice. 393 00:23:54,382 --> 00:23:55,665 I said, "Who's this?" 394 00:23:55,717 --> 00:23:57,166 He said, "Detective..." 395 00:23:57,218 --> 00:24:00,753 I didn't even hear his name. I heard the word "detective" 396 00:24:00,755 --> 00:24:02,588 from the L.A. Police Department. 397 00:24:06,895 --> 00:24:09,011 "On December 24, 2000, 398 00:24:09,064 --> 00:24:12,465 "West Los Angeles patrol officers responded to a radio call... 399 00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:16,502 Open door at 1527 Benedict Canyon Drive." 400 00:24:18,073 --> 00:24:20,239 "The officers, upon arriving at the scene, 401 00:24:20,275 --> 00:24:22,008 "observed the rear door standing open, 402 00:24:22,043 --> 00:24:23,443 and entered the residence." 403 00:24:25,613 --> 00:24:27,613 "The officers discovered the victim's body 404 00:24:27,665 --> 00:24:29,949 "supine on the floor of a bedroom 405 00:24:30,001 --> 00:24:32,952 located in the southwest portion of the residence." 406 00:24:34,956 --> 00:24:38,791 "The victim had sustained a gunshot wound to the head. 407 00:24:38,793 --> 00:24:42,128 Paramedic pronounced death at 13:48 hours." 408 00:24:46,384 --> 00:24:49,352 The first thing I remember was the condition of the house. 409 00:24:49,387 --> 00:24:52,188 Uh, it was, uh, pretty barren. 410 00:24:52,223 --> 00:24:54,307 I think all the furniture that was in there 411 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,776 was things that people had loaned her. 412 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,415 There was no carpeting on the concrete floors. 413 00:25:02,450 --> 00:25:04,717 There was no heat in the residence. 414 00:25:07,188 --> 00:25:08,554 And there's no drawers overturned. 415 00:25:08,590 --> 00:25:10,022 Nothing had spilled out. 416 00:25:10,058 --> 00:25:12,725 Everything is intact. The computer is there. 417 00:25:14,662 --> 00:25:17,563 The front door was secured with deadbolt locks. 418 00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:20,166 There was no evidence of any kind of forced entry. 419 00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:23,836 Which meant to me, or indicated to me, 420 00:25:23,888 --> 00:25:27,006 that whoever killed her had probably 421 00:25:27,058 --> 00:25:30,476 been let in by Susan Berman. 422 00:25:46,361 --> 00:25:49,862 I'm in an office waiting to interview someone. 423 00:25:49,914 --> 00:25:51,247 And I look at The Daily News, 424 00:25:51,282 --> 00:25:54,033 and there's this tiny, little story out of L.A. 425 00:25:54,085 --> 00:25:58,871 that Susan Berman was found shot dead in L.A. 426 00:25:58,873 --> 00:26:00,289 And I almost fell out of my chair. 427 00:26:00,341 --> 00:26:03,042 I just sat straight up and I wanted to leave. 428 00:26:06,764 --> 00:26:10,883 That was probably the only time in this case 429 00:26:10,935 --> 00:26:13,853 that really, really took my breath away. 430 00:26:13,888 --> 00:26:16,105 I was standing up when I answered the phone. 431 00:26:16,140 --> 00:26:18,224 I felt my knees get weak. 432 00:26:18,276 --> 00:26:21,477 Because I, it was like, I told them, "Go out there." 433 00:26:25,950 --> 00:26:29,202 When I heard that Susan had been murdered, 434 00:26:29,237 --> 00:26:31,954 the first person I thought of was Robert Durst. 435 00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:33,739 Because we were about to speak with her. 436 00:26:35,929 --> 00:26:38,077 Susan Berman wasn't just killed. 437 00:26:38,129 --> 00:26:40,580 I mean, it was execution. 438 00:26:40,582 --> 00:26:43,416 Her death is a very questionable death, 439 00:26:43,418 --> 00:26:45,384 not just in terms of the fact that it was a homicide, 440 00:26:45,420 --> 00:26:48,638 but the timing is extremely curious. 441 00:26:54,762 --> 00:26:57,730 How did you react when you heard about Susan's murder? 442 00:26:57,765 --> 00:27:00,900 I felt terrible for Susan. 443 00:27:00,935 --> 00:27:02,852 I was astonished that they were 444 00:27:02,904 --> 00:27:05,021 putting all this together that I did it 445 00:27:05,073 --> 00:27:07,773 or I caused it to be done. 446 00:27:07,825 --> 00:27:11,110 Did you have anything to do with Susan Berman's death? 447 00:27:11,112 --> 00:27:14,614 I had nothing to do with Susan Berman's death. 448 00:27:16,417 --> 00:27:18,117 Did you have any theory yourself 449 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,002 of what might have happened to Susan? 450 00:27:20,038 --> 00:27:21,203 No. 451 00:27:26,844 --> 00:27:28,628 Does it make sense to you that there were 452 00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:30,429 people that suspected you of having...? 453 00:27:30,465 --> 00:27:33,099 Oh, sure. I mean, because 454 00:27:33,134 --> 00:27:34,800 she was my spokesman. 455 00:27:34,802 --> 00:27:35,968 All of a sudden, she's dead 456 00:27:36,020 --> 00:27:40,523 right after Jeanine Pirro's doing the investigation of me. 457 00:27:40,558 --> 00:27:42,558 Mm-hmm. 458 00:27:42,610 --> 00:27:43,693 That I shut her up. 459 00:27:47,482 --> 00:27:48,698 She wrote about mobsters, 460 00:27:48,733 --> 00:27:51,083 and she was the daughter of one. 461 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,568 So, when author Susan Berman 462 00:27:52,620 --> 00:27:55,321 was found dead of a single gunshot wound to the head 463 00:27:55,373 --> 00:27:57,957 at her Benedict Canyon home on Christmas Eve, 464 00:27:57,992 --> 00:28:00,576 all of the obvious questions came up. 465 00:28:00,628 --> 00:28:02,828 Mostly "Was it a mob-style hit?" 466 00:28:07,335 --> 00:28:09,251 We were surprised to learn that Robert Durst 467 00:28:09,304 --> 00:28:12,555 was not a suspect in Susan Berman's murder. 468 00:28:12,590 --> 00:28:17,677 The LAPD was looking at mob connections of that murder. 469 00:28:17,729 --> 00:28:20,262 Susan Berman's business manager said that 470 00:28:20,315 --> 00:28:22,431 she had been working on television projects 471 00:28:22,483 --> 00:28:26,402 about the mob's days in Las Vegas when she was killed. 472 00:28:26,437 --> 00:28:29,071 She did talk to me about something she was working on 473 00:28:29,107 --> 00:28:30,439 that I think was not a screenplay. 474 00:28:30,491 --> 00:28:32,274 I think it was a journalism story. 475 00:28:32,327 --> 00:28:35,361 And I think that it involved the mob. 476 00:28:35,363 --> 00:28:36,612 "Something big." 477 00:28:36,664 --> 00:28:40,916 She was going to blow the socks off of something. 478 00:28:40,952 --> 00:28:43,536 "Something big was going to happen." 479 00:28:43,538 --> 00:28:46,172 And I said, "Well, what?" 480 00:28:46,207 --> 00:28:47,373 "Well, I can't talk about it now, 481 00:28:47,425 --> 00:28:49,425 but something big is going to happen." 482 00:28:59,887 --> 00:29:01,520 I was suspicious right away. 483 00:29:03,391 --> 00:29:05,141 Back of the head. 484 00:29:05,193 --> 00:29:08,694 That's traditional in mob killings. 485 00:29:46,267 --> 00:29:47,987 The Beverly Hills Police Department received 486 00:29:48,019 --> 00:29:50,152 a letter in the mail. 487 00:29:50,188 --> 00:29:53,105 The envelope was addressed "Beverly Hills Police." 488 00:29:53,157 --> 00:29:54,657 Beverly is spelled wrong, 489 00:29:54,692 --> 00:29:58,444 spelled with LEY instead of just LY. 490 00:29:58,496 --> 00:30:03,282 And the note read, "1527 Benedict Canyon," 491 00:30:03,334 --> 00:30:04,950 and the word "Cadaver." 492 00:30:07,038 --> 00:30:08,838 The letter was postmarked the day before 493 00:30:08,873 --> 00:30:12,258 the discovery of the victim's body. 494 00:30:12,293 --> 00:30:13,959 That letter says a lot. 495 00:30:14,011 --> 00:30:17,379 It gets mailed to a police department, 496 00:30:17,432 --> 00:30:21,634 so that somebody would come and find her body 497 00:30:21,686 --> 00:30:28,274 so it's not sitting there, decomposing, rotting away. 498 00:30:28,309 --> 00:30:31,143 I mean, it's somebody that obviously cares about her. 499 00:30:35,366 --> 00:30:39,452 So, we eliminated the mafia being a possible suspect. 500 00:30:45,576 --> 00:30:46,876 So, what do you think about this? 501 00:30:46,911 --> 00:30:47,960 About this note? 502 00:30:47,995 --> 00:30:50,162 I mean, does this note mean anything to you? 503 00:30:50,164 --> 00:30:52,548 Yeah, I mean, that's her address. 504 00:30:52,583 --> 00:30:56,218 Block letters so somebody was hiding their signature. 505 00:30:56,254 --> 00:30:58,838 And they spelled "Beverly" wrong. 506 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,339 Can you think of a reason 507 00:31:00,391 --> 00:31:03,676 why somebody might write a note like that? 508 00:31:03,728 --> 00:31:06,228 I can't imagine. 509 00:31:06,264 --> 00:31:08,013 Can't imagine. 510 00:31:08,015 --> 00:31:09,982 One of the speculations is that 511 00:31:10,017 --> 00:31:11,567 if it was somebody that liked her, 512 00:31:11,602 --> 00:31:14,436 they wouldn't want her lying around in her house. 513 00:31:14,489 --> 00:31:15,688 You know, if she had to die, she shouldn't die... 514 00:31:15,690 --> 00:31:18,190 If somebody liked her, why kill her? 515 00:31:18,242 --> 00:31:22,194 And now you're taking this big risk. 516 00:31:24,165 --> 00:31:25,748 Which big risk? 517 00:31:25,783 --> 00:31:28,367 You're writing a note to the police 518 00:31:28,369 --> 00:31:31,253 that only the killer could have written. 519 00:31:36,878 --> 00:31:38,318 One of the things that we confiscated 520 00:31:38,346 --> 00:31:41,463 was Susan's computer hard drive. 521 00:31:41,516 --> 00:31:43,766 And we found a ledger, 522 00:31:43,801 --> 00:31:48,137 of names of people that had sent her money. 523 00:31:48,189 --> 00:31:50,639 She was reaching out to past 524 00:31:50,691 --> 00:31:55,027 business associates or friends for money. 525 00:31:59,450 --> 00:32:01,617 She started having money problems. 526 00:32:03,704 --> 00:32:06,155 She was months behind in rent. 527 00:32:07,252 --> 00:32:10,088 What was she saying about her situation? 528 00:32:10,244 --> 00:32:12,044 You know, she's going to get through this. 529 00:32:12,079 --> 00:32:16,999 She has deals that, uh, were looking good with, you know, 530 00:32:17,051 --> 00:32:18,968 different projects there in Hollywood. 531 00:32:21,255 --> 00:32:23,806 Susan wrote a lot of screenplays. 532 00:32:23,841 --> 00:32:26,425 She had a lot of meetings. 533 00:32:26,477 --> 00:32:29,345 And she had so much faith in herself. 534 00:32:29,397 --> 00:32:30,596 She really did. 535 00:32:30,598 --> 00:32:34,600 Um, but none of the screenplays ever got bought. 536 00:32:37,071 --> 00:32:38,270 Being a woman, 537 00:32:38,272 --> 00:32:41,407 being an older woman in this young industry 538 00:32:41,442 --> 00:32:45,194 just was hard and getting harder. 539 00:32:48,616 --> 00:32:50,950 She was in desperate straits. 540 00:32:50,952 --> 00:32:52,518 So, Susan in desperate straits 541 00:32:52,553 --> 00:32:54,954 was very different than the Susan that I knew. 542 00:32:55,006 --> 00:32:59,291 People do things that... Their relationships change. 543 00:32:59,293 --> 00:33:02,177 Susan could manipulate, for sure. 544 00:33:04,682 --> 00:33:06,131 She was a good manipulator 545 00:33:06,133 --> 00:33:08,300 and could manipulate for things that she wanted. 546 00:33:20,197 --> 00:33:21,981 There was indications that she had received 547 00:33:21,983 --> 00:33:23,649 a couple checks from Bobby Durst. 548 00:33:33,327 --> 00:33:35,210 Susan was tough. 549 00:33:35,246 --> 00:33:38,664 And it, you know, it probably would not have scared her to... 550 00:33:38,716 --> 00:33:40,749 I'm not saying "threaten blackmail," 551 00:33:40,801 --> 00:33:44,303 but to suggest, "I can really use..." 552 00:33:44,338 --> 00:33:47,389 You know? "And wouldn't it do us both some..." 553 00:33:47,425 --> 00:33:48,425 I could see it. 554 00:33:57,518 --> 00:34:00,736 Was there anything that Susan knew as your confidante 555 00:34:00,821 --> 00:34:03,072 that you would have been uncomfortable with her telling the police? 556 00:34:03,107 --> 00:34:04,773 Well, we had lots of private things, 557 00:34:04,825 --> 00:34:06,358 but none of it had anything to do with Kathie. 558 00:34:06,410 --> 00:34:09,244 I mean, when Kathie was, you know, going bananas, 559 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,114 we would talk about Kathie all the time. 560 00:34:12,166 --> 00:34:17,369 I couldn't imagine her talking to the police about that, 561 00:34:17,421 --> 00:34:19,455 just sitting here right now. 562 00:34:19,507 --> 00:34:20,789 But "If the police want to talk to me, 563 00:34:20,841 --> 00:34:22,124 "I'm just going to talk to them. 564 00:34:22,176 --> 00:34:24,710 Is that all right?" And, like, that was the conversation. 565 00:34:24,712 --> 00:34:25,794 "Do whatever you want." 566 00:34:33,604 --> 00:34:34,803 My name is Sareb Kaufman. 567 00:34:34,855 --> 00:34:37,523 Um, Susan Berman was my mother. 568 00:34:39,226 --> 00:34:41,310 There's just one request that I would like to make, 569 00:34:41,362 --> 00:34:44,279 which is that we keep the best in mind, 570 00:34:44,315 --> 00:34:48,400 and try not to dwell too much on the sadness of these events. 571 00:34:49,987 --> 00:34:53,622 People were flying in for the memorial, 572 00:34:53,657 --> 00:34:57,076 and it was expected Bobby was going to be there. 573 00:34:58,329 --> 00:35:01,130 I believe he was in L.A. at the time, 574 00:35:01,165 --> 00:35:02,664 but he didn't come to the funeral... 575 00:35:02,717 --> 00:35:04,133 To the memorial service. 576 00:35:06,690 --> 00:35:09,150 But, Bob reached out to you, right? 577 00:35:09,256 --> 00:35:10,672 Yes. He called me. 578 00:35:12,259 --> 00:35:14,059 I found the call a little bit threatening, 579 00:35:14,095 --> 00:35:15,227 to tell you the truth. 580 00:35:15,262 --> 00:35:18,514 Um, he said... 581 00:35:18,566 --> 00:35:20,766 I, I don't recall what he really said. 582 00:35:20,818 --> 00:35:23,152 You know, I don't recall what he gave as the reason for the call. 583 00:35:23,187 --> 00:35:24,269 It could have been something like 584 00:35:24,271 --> 00:35:25,821 "Just checking in with you." 585 00:35:25,856 --> 00:35:28,857 Never interested in me for one second. 586 00:35:28,909 --> 00:35:31,443 Bobby called. And why wouldn't he call? 587 00:35:31,445 --> 00:35:34,580 He was her best friend... Or one of her best friends. 588 00:35:34,615 --> 00:35:36,915 And we commiserated with that. 589 00:35:38,521 --> 00:35:39,856 What did he say? 590 00:35:39,969 --> 00:35:41,670 "My God, isn't this awful?" 591 00:35:42,809 --> 00:35:45,770 Did he ask about the investigation into Susan's murder? 592 00:35:46,043 --> 00:35:50,379 Maybe he did, now that you're saying that. 593 00:35:50,431 --> 00:35:55,134 He was trying to, to make allies in Susan's camp. 594 00:35:55,186 --> 00:35:56,802 For what reason, I'm not sure. 595 00:35:56,854 --> 00:35:58,637 Maybe, you know, to keep us from 596 00:35:58,639 --> 00:36:00,389 talking to the cops, which we already had. 597 00:36:00,441 --> 00:36:01,774 I, I have no idea. 598 00:36:01,809 --> 00:36:04,610 But he definitely was trying to, to, um, 599 00:36:04,645 --> 00:36:06,779 find out where he could find allies. 600 00:36:10,503 --> 00:36:14,090 When was the first contact that you had with Bob after Susan's murder? 601 00:36:14,405 --> 00:36:18,040 It was shortly after. Um, I, I forget if 602 00:36:18,075 --> 00:36:19,241 he called me or I called him. 603 00:36:19,293 --> 00:36:20,793 I mean, there... It was a point where I was kind of 604 00:36:20,828 --> 00:36:23,378 going through her Rolodex and just letting people know. 605 00:36:23,414 --> 00:36:25,247 This was kind of again, like, I was calling the reporters, 606 00:36:25,299 --> 00:36:27,132 I was calling, you know, the police. 607 00:36:27,168 --> 00:36:29,501 He was obviously very sympathetic and, you know, 608 00:36:29,553 --> 00:36:32,221 sad to hear about it, and asked what he could do. 609 00:36:33,941 --> 00:36:35,307 And then it was around that time 610 00:36:35,342 --> 00:36:39,344 that people were starting to talk about him as a suspect. 611 00:36:39,396 --> 00:36:41,346 But it never made sense to me. 612 00:36:41,348 --> 00:36:43,482 Not for even a second. 613 00:36:44,852 --> 00:36:46,485 I knew how Susan felt about him. 614 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,240 Sareb and Bobby became very close 615 00:36:51,275 --> 00:36:52,691 right after Susan died. 616 00:36:53,861 --> 00:36:56,028 Which was a problem, because 617 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,165 the rest of us... You know, 618 00:37:00,201 --> 00:37:02,868 felt that we were living in different realities. 619 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:07,339 When people try to explain to me the predominant theory as to, 620 00:37:07,374 --> 00:37:09,374 "Hey, his wife went missing, and, you know, 621 00:37:09,426 --> 00:37:10,759 plenty of people think he killed her" 622 00:37:10,845 --> 00:37:12,928 and "Hey, look, they just opened up this case 623 00:37:12,963 --> 00:37:14,680 "just, you know, a month before, 624 00:37:14,715 --> 00:37:18,550 two months before, isn't that curious?" 625 00:37:18,602 --> 00:37:21,220 And "Hey, there's no such thing as coincidence." 626 00:37:21,222 --> 00:37:25,107 Um, it... I first say, "Of course there is coincidence. 627 00:37:25,142 --> 00:37:26,558 There's always coincidence." 628 00:37:28,812 --> 00:37:30,896 Yes, he is a part of the list, 629 00:37:30,948 --> 00:37:33,649 because he would have been allowed in. 630 00:37:33,701 --> 00:37:36,568 He, you know, she would have turned her back on him, 631 00:37:36,620 --> 00:37:37,786 you know. 632 00:37:37,821 --> 00:37:41,240 But, uh, nothing else make, makes sense to me on that. 633 00:37:43,327 --> 00:37:44,960 I can see how a young person, 634 00:37:44,995 --> 00:37:48,213 who had just lost his mother figure 635 00:37:48,249 --> 00:37:50,999 and he was starting out in life, 636 00:37:51,051 --> 00:37:54,753 would like to believe in a multimillionaire 637 00:37:54,755 --> 00:37:56,638 who could be his good friend. 638 00:37:57,777 --> 00:38:00,613 After Susan's death, did Bob ever give you money? 639 00:38:01,095 --> 00:38:03,095 Well, no, it wasn't... I mean, well, 640 00:38:03,097 --> 00:38:06,098 he had, well, he basically in a conversation 641 00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:08,183 that we had had at some point, 642 00:38:08,235 --> 00:38:11,436 again it came up, I hadn't gone to college. 643 00:38:11,488 --> 00:38:14,606 He asked me, "How much would it cost for you to go?" 644 00:38:14,658 --> 00:38:17,910 And so I, you know, I told him, "About $200,000." 645 00:38:17,945 --> 00:38:20,028 It was a little padded, admittedly, but not by much. 646 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,282 I mean, it was tuition, living, being able to focus. 647 00:38:23,334 --> 00:38:25,500 He said, "I'll give you $25,000 a year for 4 years." 648 00:38:29,558 --> 00:38:30,558 In the months after that 649 00:38:30,601 --> 00:38:31,936 did you see Bob again? 650 00:38:32,343 --> 00:38:33,792 On his next trip around, 651 00:38:33,844 --> 00:38:35,961 Bob said he wanted to have dinner. 652 00:38:36,783 --> 00:38:38,243 And, did you have that dinner? 653 00:38:38,432 --> 00:38:39,681 We did not. 654 00:38:39,717 --> 00:38:41,049 We did not have that dinner. 655 00:38:41,204 --> 00:38:42,405 Why didn't that happen? 656 00:38:42,519 --> 00:38:44,219 Because apparently shortly thereafter, 657 00:38:44,271 --> 00:38:48,307 he was on the run for the, uh... Well, 658 00:38:48,359 --> 00:38:50,859 at the time it was arrested for 659 00:38:50,894 --> 00:38:54,146 murder and dismemberment of a body. 660 00:38:54,198 --> 00:38:57,366 So, he missed the dinner. 661 00:39:05,709 --> 00:39:07,125 Galveston Police are convinced 662 00:39:07,161 --> 00:39:09,628 58-year-old Robert Durst killed and dismembered 663 00:39:09,663 --> 00:39:11,997 his 71-year-old-neighbor Morris Black, 664 00:39:11,999 --> 00:39:14,333 then threw his body parts into Galveston Bay. 665 00:39:16,303 --> 00:39:18,337 I spent one night in prison. 666 00:39:20,841 --> 00:39:24,426 I had been told by the detective that, uh, 667 00:39:24,478 --> 00:39:26,228 "You've been charged with murder. 668 00:39:26,263 --> 00:39:30,148 Bail has been set at $250,000." 669 00:39:30,184 --> 00:39:32,851 And I didn't think that when you were charged with murder... 670 00:39:32,903 --> 00:39:36,104 I mean, I didn't know nothing, but you, you can't give 671 00:39:36,156 --> 00:39:38,156 someone charged with murder a bail, 672 00:39:38,192 --> 00:39:40,993 because they're going to run away, of course! 673 00:39:41,028 --> 00:39:42,411 But was your intention when you put up 674 00:39:42,446 --> 00:39:44,913 the $250,000 to run away? 675 00:39:44,948 --> 00:39:47,366 Oh, good-bye, $250,000. 676 00:39:47,368 --> 00:39:50,035 Good-bye, jail. I'm, I'm out! 677 00:39:54,708 --> 00:39:56,625 Manhattan real estate heir Robert Durst 678 00:39:56,677 --> 00:39:58,260 back in custody. 679 00:39:58,295 --> 00:40:00,712 Busted while trying to shoplift a $6.00 680 00:40:00,764 --> 00:40:03,849 chicken salad sandwich at a Pennsylvania market. 681 00:40:06,053 --> 00:40:08,854 I went into the Wegmans to do grocery shopping, 682 00:40:08,889 --> 00:40:10,222 get the newspaper. 683 00:40:13,310 --> 00:40:17,396 I don't know what gave me the idea that I should shoplift. 684 00:40:17,398 --> 00:40:20,365 To see if I could get away with it, or whatever it was. 685 00:40:20,401 --> 00:40:22,484 But I decided rather than to pay, 686 00:40:22,536 --> 00:40:23,902 I was just going to take it. 687 00:40:27,074 --> 00:40:28,073 And as I was leaving, 688 00:40:28,075 --> 00:40:31,126 the, the two security people were out front, 689 00:40:31,161 --> 00:40:32,744 and they have to talk to me. 690 00:40:32,746 --> 00:40:34,079 We're sorry. You'll have to come with us. 691 00:40:34,131 --> 00:40:35,881 Blah blah blah. 692 00:40:35,916 --> 00:40:38,834 Idiotically, I went with them. 693 00:40:38,886 --> 00:40:41,136 Um, and I was arrested. 694 00:40:43,924 --> 00:40:46,892 Durst was wanted for murder in Galveston, Texas, 695 00:40:46,927 --> 00:40:49,761 and he's a suspect for murders in Los Angeles 696 00:40:49,813 --> 00:40:51,563 and Westchester County, New York. 697 00:40:54,651 --> 00:40:55,851 What about Susan Berman? 698 00:40:55,903 --> 00:40:57,623 Did you have anything to do with her murder? 699 00:41:03,026 --> 00:41:04,776 Why were you bald? 700 00:41:04,828 --> 00:41:07,779 - I was on the lam. - I was trying to disguise myself, 701 00:41:07,831 --> 00:41:09,414 and that worked real good. 702 00:41:11,368 --> 00:41:13,752 Did you shave your eyebrows? 703 00:41:13,787 --> 00:41:16,371 - Everything. - Why? 704 00:41:16,423 --> 00:41:18,590 It looks more like a... Less like me. 705 00:41:18,625 --> 00:41:20,792 You, you look like a... You look weird 706 00:41:20,844 --> 00:41:24,463 with your eyebrows shaved in addition to your head. 707 00:41:24,515 --> 00:41:26,348 And that was intentional? 708 00:41:26,383 --> 00:41:29,957 Yeah! How do you accidentally shave your eyebrows?