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Hilary Barry: It's been a
harrowing week in the news,
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so now it's something much
lighter and more fun.
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It's time for New Zealand's
favorite pop culture reporter,
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David farrier.
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David: What do you make
of New Zealanders so far?
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Me? Uh, I think that they're...
They've been nice.
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Everyone has been cool so far.
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David: What's the main thing
you're trying to achieve here?
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Because obviously
you've created a bit of a--
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survival.
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He's dead.
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- Now we're gonna spin around.
- Yeah.
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Whoa! Holy!
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It's so tiring. Whoa!
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David: And what's your nickname
that you've got now?
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The donkey lady.
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Lady: Look out!
Oh, look, we're going
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- to have a reporter kicked.
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It's quite a kick.
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David: I can't say I've ever
interviewed anyone
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that looks
exactly like you before.
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Really?
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David: I've made a career out of
looking at the weird
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- and bizarre side of life.
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So when I discovered a strange
video online,
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I knew I'd found
my next story.
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Man:
It's good. It's good.
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David: An American company
called Jane o'brien media
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was running a monthly event.
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Young athletes from anywhere
on the planet could apply.
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If selected they got
free flights to la,
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four nights in a really
nice hotel and $1500 cash.
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It was called competitive
endurance tickling.
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Man: You're with the cet,
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a competitive endurance tickling
group we got here.
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And, uh, first of all I'd like
to give a shout to you,
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Jane o'brien media,
for making this happen.
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- Thanks, Jane.
- We all appreciate it.
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Fuck off!
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Guys! Oh, my god!
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David: Their Facebook page
was popular,
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with thousands of likes.
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And with everyone in
Adidas gear,
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it seemed to be some
kind of tickling league.
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David: It was one of
the strangest sports I'd seen.
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Man: No!
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David: So, of course,
I told Jane o'brien media
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I'd like to do an interview.
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Instead of getting a
yes or no, I got this.
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Woman: "To be brutally frank,
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association with a
homosexual journalist
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is not something
we will embrace.
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We desperately do not want
a homosexual participant base
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applying for this project.
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My concern is that your
journalistic style, fan base,
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and reputation
in your own country.
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Regards, Debbie kuhn,
Jane o'brien media."
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David:
It was a strange response,
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especially considering the
sport did seem slightly...
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Gay.
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And over the coming weeks,
Debbie and Jane kept e-mailing.
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Woman: "The competitive
reality tickling
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is a passionately
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and exclusively heterosexual
athletic endurance activity.
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We have recently read a googled
article about the knowledge
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of your living with a
homosexual partner
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becoming quite a stir
in New Zealand."
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"The remainder of the globe
does not in all corners
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share some of the more liberal
acceptance of your lifestyle."
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"To me anything concerning
homosexuality
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is at best
an objective disorder."
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"Shame on you!"
"Little gay kiwis." "Faggot."
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David: It was hard to take
the insults seriously,
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given what Jane was producing.
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If anything, it made me
more curious than ever.
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Woman: Your call
has been forwarded
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to the voicemail for
Jane o'brien media.
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David: With no one picking up
the phone,
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I got my geeky friend Dylan
to do some digging
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into this mysterious company
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and this overly
aggressive woman.
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Dylan: So, I'm going to just
scroll up. So here we go.
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So, it's janeobrienmedia.Com.
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It's registered to nederdietsen.
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David: He discovered that while
Jane o'brien media
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seemed to be
operated out of America,
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it was owned by a company in
Germany called nederdietsen,
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which owned nearly 300 domain
names all related to tickling.
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This tickling wormhole was
getting deeper,
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so Dylan and I
blogged about what we'd found.
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Man: So, the pay's good.
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Man: What? Okay, hold on.
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David: Our story
got a lot of attention,
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being picked up
on websites like reddit
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and an American podcast.
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- Man 1: Back up. Back up.
- Man 2: When I say
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competitive tickling, what do
you think I'm talking about?
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Man 1: I mean, I think you're
talking about, uh,
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some sort of organized sport--
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- man 2: Yeah.
- ...Of tickling.
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Man 2: Basically what happened
was this kind of blew up
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on the Internet this week,
because a dude in New Zealand,
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a reporter, like, happened
across this Facebook page.
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Man 1: But is it just for fun?
They just...
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I mean,
obviously it's just for fun?
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Man 2: Is it just for fun?
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- It's tickling.
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Man 1: Sorry, I don't think that
question's ever been asked
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about tickling before.
It's like a martian question
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- about tickling.
- "Is it for fun?"
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David: People were so interested
by what we discovered,
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Dylan and I decided to make
a documentary
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about this
utterly bizarre subject.
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Two weeks later,
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we heard from Jane o'brien's
New York attorney,
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Romeo salta.
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He'd recently made
headlines in a case
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involving a gay porn star
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who chopped a man up
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and mailed his body parts
to some politicians.
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Things certainly weren't
getting any less weird.
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His letter told us to stop
what we were doing, or else.
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Soon we were receiving e-mails
from salta telling us
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that legal action
had been filed in the us.
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I had no money to hire a
New Zealand lawyer,
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let alone face
the American justice system.
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Then, to top it all off,
Jane o'brien media told us
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they were flying three people
across the world from New York
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to New Zealand to see us.
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They're clearly serious about
stopping this documentary.
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Jane wouldn't tell us what
flight they were arriving on,
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but she did tell us the day.
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So from 05:00 am,
I waited at arrivals.
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Not sure what to expect,
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I figured I'd disarm
the situation
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with a rainbow-colored sign.
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David: How's it going?
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I thought I'd make up
a good welcoming sign.
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Good. How are you, sir?
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That's all right. I thought
I'd arrive. How was the flight?
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Oh, good.
Air New Zealand?
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Oh, good. Hey, guys.
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Kevin, nice to meet you, sir.
David. Nice to meet you.
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You can. I gift this to you.
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As a sign, I thought
it was pretty good.
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Well, look, let's line up
a time to meet this week.
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Marko:
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David: Tomorrow?
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- Adam:
- Marko:
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David:
Okay, tomorrow works well.
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- Kevin:
- Marko:
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David: Oh, that's okay. It's the
New Zealand hospitality.
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- David: You can get me there.
- Kevin:
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David: Yeah, we're just rolling
from the beginning. Yeah, yeah.
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Okay. We've got a thing
in New Zealand,
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we're okay to film
in public spaces.
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So I'm just following
the journey.
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Okay, all right. Well, we're--
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Adam:
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It's not--
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David: Okay. Well, I mean,
we're shooting a documentary,
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so we'll keep... it's a--
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David: Mm.
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David: Okay.
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Okay. We're okay to film in
public spaces in New Zealand,
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so we're doing that here.
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David:
All right, we'll see you soon.
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- Marko:
- David: Okay, sounds good.
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All right, see you soon.
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David:
No worries. We'll talk soon.
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Marko:
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David: Hey, Marko.
It's Dave farrier. How are you?
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Yeah, good. How are you
settling into Auckland?
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Okay. No, that sounds
good to me, I think.
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Just, Dylan and I both talked,
and we just weren't confident,
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or didn't think it was
a good idea
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just to go straight to a room.
Maybe it's a cultural thing.
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But a conference room
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- um, of your choosing,
- Marko: Okay.
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Whether it's at the Hilton or
elsewhere, is absolutely fine.
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Marko:
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Marko: And, um...
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David:
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Marko:
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Dylan:
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Marko:
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Dylan:
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Kevin:
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Dylan:
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Kevin:
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Dylan:
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Kevin:
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David: Sure.
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Dylan:
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David:
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Kevin:
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David: Kevin didn't take
to Dylan very well
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and wants to meet me alone.
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I quickly make this
covert piece of technology.
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A camera in a coffee cup.
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Kevin: What's the end game here?
What do you get at the end
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or even if you get everything
you want?
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- David: Mm. Mm.
- And what are we risking here?
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You know, do we really want
someone coming after you
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with all that money?
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I've known a lot of
rich people in my life.
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I've worked for a lot of them.
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They don't work by the
same set of rules.
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They don't dangle them out
of buildings any more,
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but they don't have to.
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And that's the thing.
They start suing,
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and you're done halfway through
or a quarter of the way through
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because it costs so much
to defend yourself.
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David: So unless...
Essentially, I mean,
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unless we stop the doco,
we're gonna be fucked.
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Really. It seems that's
what it comes down to.
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Kevin: I'm not gonna use those
words directly,
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because that wouldn't
be prudent.
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But... let me rephrase.
Unless you stopped...
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Unless we can figure out a way
to ameliorate that situation,
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we all are.
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David: Facing lawsuits and
a company with deep pockets,
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I wondered if we should
just walk away.
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But Dylan was part of this now
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and didn't want to give in to
a bunch of bullies.
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Kevin:
Dylan wants to pursue this
on his own?
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David: Uh, I gather from
what he's saying, yeah.
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Kevin: Okay.
Um, if Dylan wants to do that,
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Dylan does...
Dylan will do that.
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If you don't want to do that,
then just walk away from it.
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David: Yeah.
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Kevin: And I will... Dylan
will be dealt with accordingly.
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How was school?
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Marko: The main
thing, David, you know, that I
wanted to tell you is that
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I think that you're brilliant.
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And that you have
a great career.
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So I was really,
really happy to find out
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that you wanted just to
distance yourself from it.
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And I don't understand why
Dylan would not want to.
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What I'm worried about too,
I know Kevin says,
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"well, if he wants to
go ahead with it,
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let him go ahead with it."
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But he'll become a real target,
and believe me,
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it will be really ugly for him.
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And I would...
I would hate to see that too,
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because I know he has a family
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and, you know, he's probably,
uh, a good bloke down deep.
248
00:16:33,469 --> 00:16:35,902
David: I've never heard threats
like this in my life,
249
00:16:36,237 --> 00:16:38,737
and all of this
over some tickling!
250
00:16:39,639 --> 00:16:42,506
Kevin and Marko fly
back to America.
251
00:16:43,408 --> 00:16:46,642
And a few days later,
Dylan and I follow.
252
00:16:47,678 --> 00:16:50,245
Something about bullies
with way too much money
253
00:16:50,347 --> 00:16:52,313
has convinced me
I shouldn't drop it.
254
00:16:52,848 --> 00:16:56,582
Plus, we think there's a
competitive tickling shoot
happening this week.
255
00:16:58,919 --> 00:17:01,986
We've reached out to nearly
a hundred boys in the videos,
256
00:17:02,254 --> 00:17:04,587
but they all seem too
nervous to talk.
257
00:17:10,093 --> 00:17:12,993
Finally tj agrees to meet us.
258
00:17:16,598 --> 00:17:19,498
We met Kevin Clarke
downtown la somewhere.
259
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,667
I can't remember exactly where
it was at, but it was a studio.
260
00:17:24,337 --> 00:17:26,003
He seemed pretty
normal at the time.
261
00:17:27,306 --> 00:17:29,572
My first impression of him,
you know, he was just, like,
262
00:17:30,341 --> 00:17:31,840
kind of...
Kind of a little weird.
263
00:17:34,277 --> 00:17:35,576
You know,
I was young at the time,
264
00:17:35,678 --> 00:17:36,777
didn't think nothing of it,
265
00:17:36,779 --> 00:17:38,912
and I was like, "cool."
You know, $2000 or whatever,
266
00:17:39,014 --> 00:17:40,346
"yeah. It's gonna be cool."
267
00:17:44,718 --> 00:17:46,250
It was actually a hard
time for my family.
268
00:17:46,252 --> 00:17:50,187
A family member of mine was
going through cancer, and money
was tight at the household.
269
00:17:50,289 --> 00:17:53,690
So I was a little bit desperate
at the time as well for money,
working on the side,
270
00:17:53,792 --> 00:17:55,691
and doing what I can. So when
i heard this dollar sign,
271
00:17:55,793 --> 00:17:57,726
I was like, "yeah," you know,
"I'll definitely do that."
272
00:17:59,796 --> 00:18:01,362
And then I went inside
273
00:18:01,464 --> 00:18:03,764
and noticed that it was
all guys in there.
274
00:18:05,334 --> 00:18:08,401
And that's when I was like,
"oh, dang!" Like...
275
00:18:11,639 --> 00:18:13,605
And I didn't know I was
gonna get tied down.
276
00:18:14,207 --> 00:18:16,540
I had no idea what it'd be for.
277
00:18:16,642 --> 00:18:18,642
Honestly, I was like,
"okay, what?"
278
00:18:20,245 --> 00:18:23,145
At that point I was like,
"all right, you know what?
It's already going down.
279
00:18:23,247 --> 00:18:24,613
I don't really know
what it's for,
280
00:18:24,715 --> 00:18:26,080
but hopefully
it never gets out."
281
00:18:46,732 --> 00:18:48,264
No, no, no. Not any fuckin'...
282
00:18:48,366 --> 00:18:52,100
Ah! Fuck! That actually
tickles, dude.
283
00:18:55,071 --> 00:18:58,939
Ah! Fuck!
284
00:18:59,041 --> 00:19:02,108
Being violated on so many
different levels right now.
285
00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:05,177
There was other athletes.
There was mma guys.
286
00:19:05,279 --> 00:19:06,611
There was a bodybuilder,
287
00:19:06,746 --> 00:19:09,780
and then there was a couple
of actors, normal actors.
288
00:19:09,882 --> 00:19:11,348
I've seen some of them on
commercials,
289
00:19:11,450 --> 00:19:13,616
TV commercials. Normal guys.
290
00:19:13,718 --> 00:19:16,150
Like, completely normal people.
291
00:19:18,053 --> 00:19:20,420
Get the fuck off my feet!
292
00:19:20,522 --> 00:19:21,988
It was a torture project.
293
00:19:22,090 --> 00:19:24,490
That's what I believe
Kevin Clarke told me.
294
00:19:24,592 --> 00:19:28,593
There was something to do with
even a military tactic,
or something like that.
295
00:19:28,695 --> 00:19:30,361
He was gonna do...
296
00:19:30,563 --> 00:19:32,930
I think he said
Jane was doing a project
297
00:19:33,032 --> 00:19:35,966
on using tickling
as a military tactic.
298
00:19:36,068 --> 00:19:37,167
And at that point, I...
299
00:19:37,269 --> 00:19:39,168
I knew it was complete bullshit,
you know?
300
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:41,270
I was like, "okay, the military
is gonna use tickling
301
00:19:41,372 --> 00:19:43,505
as a torture tactic?"
302
00:19:43,607 --> 00:19:45,873
Fuck!
303
00:19:48,510 --> 00:19:52,144
David: When did the video
come back to get you?
304
00:19:53,447 --> 00:19:56,381
About a year, maybe
a little more, ago.
305
00:20:05,724 --> 00:20:07,290
I would Google myself
once in a while,
306
00:20:07,392 --> 00:20:08,491
to read old articles
307
00:20:08,493 --> 00:20:10,659
or see what teams might have
listed me in an article
308
00:20:10,761 --> 00:20:11,826
or try-outs.
309
00:20:16,665 --> 00:20:20,133
And to my surprise,
a video was on YouTube.
310
00:20:20,235 --> 00:20:24,303
Hello. I'm tj, and I'm here
on a tickling competition.
311
00:20:24,405 --> 00:20:26,872
And, uh, first question is:
"Are you ticklish?"
312
00:20:26,974 --> 00:20:29,074
Well, obviously I'm ticklish if
I'm here, so,
313
00:20:29,176 --> 00:20:30,575
that's kind of
a silly question. But, uh...
314
00:20:30,677 --> 00:20:33,077
It was just me
sitting in front of the camera
315
00:20:33,179 --> 00:20:35,879
talking about the,
uh, tickling process.
316
00:20:35,981 --> 00:20:38,348
Just weird things. And so I was
like, "okay, it's not that bad."
317
00:20:39,417 --> 00:20:41,350
"When you are asked,
'are you ticklish?'
318
00:20:41,452 --> 00:20:43,752
how do you normally
respond and why?"
319
00:20:44,121 --> 00:20:47,689
Normally, I say,
"no, I'm not ticklish."
320
00:20:49,659 --> 00:20:52,993
So I emailed Jane and asked
her to take the video down.
321
00:20:56,832 --> 00:20:59,165
She didn't ever reply.
322
00:20:59,267 --> 00:21:01,600
So I took the matters
into my own hands,
323
00:21:01,768 --> 00:21:03,667
and I, uh, told YouTube that
324
00:21:03,769 --> 00:21:05,869
uh, they're illegally
using my name.
325
00:21:09,341 --> 00:21:13,109
So YouTube took the video down.
That's when it all started.
326
00:21:17,447 --> 00:21:19,113
Woman: "Now, I am laughing."
327
00:21:20,349 --> 00:21:22,716
"I don't think you've grasped
the magnitude
328
00:21:22,818 --> 00:21:24,384
of what you have provoked."
329
00:21:24,886 --> 00:21:27,453
"I'm interested to see how you
handle the fallout.
330
00:21:27,555 --> 00:21:32,123
So far, badly."
"Regards, Debbie j. Kuhn."
331
00:21:32,225 --> 00:21:35,092
That's when this Deborah
person popped into my life.
332
00:21:35,194 --> 00:21:38,329
I mean,
just all hell broke loose.
333
00:21:41,434 --> 00:21:45,669
Every kind of video search you
can find, it was up there.
334
00:21:47,472 --> 00:21:49,305
And then it
pops up in my emails,
335
00:21:49,407 --> 00:21:51,340
and then it pops up
more on YouTube,
336
00:21:51,842 --> 00:21:53,308
and it just starts
appearing everywhere.
337
00:21:53,410 --> 00:21:54,742
This video...
Just, all of them.
338
00:21:54,844 --> 00:21:56,243
All of them start blowing up.
339
00:22:05,819 --> 00:22:07,185
And there was threats.
It said, "watch out!
340
00:22:07,287 --> 00:22:08,419
Your family better watch out
341
00:22:08,621 --> 00:22:10,487
because we're gonna put your
last name to shame.
342
00:22:10,589 --> 00:22:13,056
Any time you search your last
name, it's gonna pop up."
343
00:22:13,158 --> 00:22:14,891
Like, direct threats.
344
00:22:17,962 --> 00:22:19,261
They ended up making a website,
345
00:22:19,329 --> 00:22:20,761
putting my
personal information:
346
00:22:20,863 --> 00:22:22,662
My name, my address,
347
00:22:22,797 --> 00:22:25,530
my personal phone number,
my email address,
348
00:22:26,533 --> 00:22:28,499
all with just dumb lies.
349
00:22:31,537 --> 00:22:34,571
Then Debbie kuhn starts going
off on me left and right,
350
00:22:34,673 --> 00:22:37,073
sending emails to the
high school that I coach at.
351
00:22:37,608 --> 00:22:40,609
Woman: "I have additional
information as a past employer.
352
00:22:40,711 --> 00:22:42,544
You don't want this
guy in your league.
353
00:22:42,646 --> 00:22:45,380
Can you afford the distraction,
the press,
354
00:22:45,482 --> 00:22:48,850
with an outed gay guy
having a male tickling fetish,
355
00:22:48,952 --> 00:22:50,952
in which he likes to tickle
and be tickled
356
00:22:51,054 --> 00:22:54,121
by tied-up other gay
athletes and bodybuilders?"
357
00:22:54,223 --> 00:22:56,022
False accusations,
saying I'm a drug addict
358
00:22:56,124 --> 00:22:58,691
and I was a child molester
and I'm gay, and this and that,
359
00:22:58,793 --> 00:23:00,893
which none of those things
have ever been true.
360
00:23:17,310 --> 00:23:19,076
I've always been very proud.
361
00:23:19,178 --> 00:23:20,911
The way I walk around,
I'm proud of who I am.
362
00:23:21,013 --> 00:23:22,312
You know what I mean?
So to speak.
363
00:23:22,414 --> 00:23:23,813
I'm confident in myself
as an athlete,
364
00:23:23,915 --> 00:23:25,281
as a person, as a player.
365
00:23:26,584 --> 00:23:27,883
But when I'd go to try-outs,
366
00:23:27,985 --> 00:23:29,918
the first thing
I would think about is,
367
00:23:30,020 --> 00:23:32,320
"well, I wonder
if these coaches
have looked up that video?"
368
00:23:34,424 --> 00:23:35,923
And it's happened.
It has happened.
369
00:23:36,025 --> 00:23:37,724
I've been released
from football teams.
370
00:23:37,826 --> 00:23:39,158
They've told me, uh,
371
00:23:39,260 --> 00:23:41,960
that I'm the best player
on that team at that position,
372
00:23:42,095 --> 00:23:44,895
but because it is
a distraction for the media,
373
00:23:44,997 --> 00:23:45,996
they don't need that attention
374
00:23:45,998 --> 00:23:48,665
and they'll go with somebody
else 'cause they don't feel
like explaining it.
375
00:23:48,667 --> 00:23:53,102
You know, and I've actually
dealt with a lot of things
because of it.
376
00:23:54,605 --> 00:23:57,606
It's cost me money, it's cost me
jobs, it's caused me harassment,
377
00:23:57,708 --> 00:24:00,842
which is exactly what Debbie
kuhn and Jane o'brien wanted.
378
00:24:00,944 --> 00:24:03,744
So, I mean, more or less in
that aspect, they've won.
379
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,454
David: It's obvious we're not
the only ones being harassed
380
00:24:16,556 --> 00:24:18,255
by Jane o'brien media.
381
00:24:18,357 --> 00:24:21,858
And there are so many websites
made up like tj's
382
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,659
which seem to exist purely
383
00:24:23,761 --> 00:24:25,794
to shame the guys
who've been tickled.
384
00:24:29,032 --> 00:24:32,465
What goes on at these shoots,
and why is she so aggressive?
385
00:24:34,702 --> 00:24:36,268
Dylan's been doing
some research,
386
00:24:36,370 --> 00:24:39,137
and he thinks he knows where
the next shoot is happening.
387
00:24:41,274 --> 00:24:43,641
We stake out the studio,
hoping to find out
388
00:24:43,743 --> 00:24:46,810
how a competitive
tickling shoot goes down.
389
00:24:47,779 --> 00:24:49,011
Dominic: Okay, car.
390
00:24:55,818 --> 00:24:57,651
And another car. Two cars.
391
00:24:57,986 --> 00:24:59,452
David: Two cars.
392
00:25:05,326 --> 00:25:06,692
Dominic: Can you see
what the car's doing?
393
00:25:06,794 --> 00:25:07,993
I've lost him.
394
00:25:12,599 --> 00:25:14,699
- Dominic: Who's that guy?
- David: Oh, that's Marko.
395
00:25:17,437 --> 00:25:20,738
Dylan: Oh, yeah. And we've got
four guys going in so far.
396
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,206
Dominic: Four guys.
397
00:25:26,812 --> 00:25:28,344
Dylan: That's the guy
from New Zealand.
398
00:25:28,446 --> 00:25:30,045
David: Yep, there's Kevin.
399
00:25:51,967 --> 00:25:54,667
David: We could hear laughter
coming out of the vents.
400
00:25:58,771 --> 00:26:00,937
It went on for hours,
401
00:26:02,674 --> 00:26:05,241
the boys occasionally
taking breaks.
402
00:26:17,621 --> 00:26:19,621
You know, this is actually
fucking creepy as fuck.
403
00:26:19,723 --> 00:26:21,689
Dylan: Like, this feels
to me like a pep talk.
404
00:26:21,824 --> 00:26:22,889
Dominic: Yeah.
405
00:26:24,659 --> 00:26:25,958
David: As the day wraps up,
406
00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:28,293
I want to give Kevin
one last chance
407
00:26:28,395 --> 00:26:30,361
to talk about what's going on.
408
00:26:31,964 --> 00:26:33,296
With pending lawsuits,
409
00:26:33,398 --> 00:26:36,799
I'm cautious and don't want to
storm into the studio.
410
00:26:39,003 --> 00:26:40,135
David:
They haven't locked the door.
411
00:26:40,237 --> 00:26:41,802
Dylan: I think we go.
412
00:26:44,573 --> 00:26:46,105
All right. Okay, let's go.
413
00:26:46,841 --> 00:26:48,907
- David: We're good?
- Dominic: Yep, we're good.
414
00:26:59,386 --> 00:27:00,551
Dominic: Come this way.
415
00:27:02,054 --> 00:27:04,754
David: Here we go.
We've been spotted.
416
00:27:14,565 --> 00:27:18,300
Hello, Marko. Hey, guys.
417
00:27:27,344 --> 00:27:28,609
Adam, how's it going?
418
00:27:28,711 --> 00:27:30,343
Adam:
419
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,646
Hello, sir.
420
00:27:33,848 --> 00:27:35,414
Kevin:
421
00:27:35,916 --> 00:27:37,148
We're not welcome here?
422
00:27:40,686 --> 00:27:42,352
All right.
Well, we'll head off.
423
00:27:43,355 --> 00:27:44,854
You don't want to do
any final chats or anything?
424
00:27:44,956 --> 00:27:46,155
Last opportunity.
425
00:27:51,295 --> 00:27:52,627
That's all we can do.
426
00:28:00,269 --> 00:28:02,302
Turn right
on bellevue Avenue,
427
00:28:02,404 --> 00:28:04,170
then take the first right.
428
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,508
I think... yeah, uh,
after New Zealand and that,
429
00:28:09,610 --> 00:28:12,777
I think it's
safe to say that we don't...
430
00:28:12,879 --> 00:28:15,312
We don't have an interview
with Kevin or Marko.
431
00:28:15,981 --> 00:28:17,280
And we certainly
weren't getting
432
00:28:17,382 --> 00:28:20,282
any more of the competitors
to talk on camera.
433
00:28:20,384 --> 00:28:22,217
They were all too terrified,
434
00:28:22,319 --> 00:28:26,220
hoping if they stayed quiet,
the harassment would go away.
435
00:28:28,490 --> 00:28:30,823
Dylan: I mean, are we making the
whole thing worse for everyone
436
00:28:30,925 --> 00:28:32,524
just by even being here?
437
00:28:32,626 --> 00:28:34,359
David: Yeah.
I think it's possible.
438
00:28:34,461 --> 00:28:37,528
I worry that we make it
worse for some people who...
439
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:39,496
Who've gotten through the
worst of it, you know?
440
00:28:39,598 --> 00:28:40,663
Dylan: Mm.
441
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,980
David: Jane o'brien clearly
isn't being honest
442
00:29:00,082 --> 00:29:01,648
about what the videos are for.
443
00:29:02,017 --> 00:29:04,417
And I'm convinced that despite
the Adidas gear,
444
00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:06,986
it's not a real sport.
445
00:29:11,692 --> 00:29:13,491
I've tracked down
a man in Florida
446
00:29:13,593 --> 00:29:15,693
who also makes tickling videos,
447
00:29:15,795 --> 00:29:19,396
but, unlike Jane, is more
than happy to talk about it.
448
00:29:49,060 --> 00:29:52,193
Richard: People ask me about
what is the appeal of tickling?
449
00:29:53,663 --> 00:29:56,363
It's kind of like the whips
and chains, you know,
450
00:29:56,465 --> 00:29:59,065
bondage sort of thing, where
somebody's getting flogged.
451
00:29:59,167 --> 00:30:02,601
But it's just really brought
down a level, you know?
452
00:30:02,703 --> 00:30:04,402
It's like kind of a sadistic
453
00:30:04,504 --> 00:30:06,871
exerting your will
on someone else,
454
00:30:06,973 --> 00:30:09,073
and having them do something
out of their control
455
00:30:09,175 --> 00:30:11,808
like laughing without
being able to get away,
456
00:30:12,011 --> 00:30:15,144
as if it's, uh,
tickle torture to them.
457
00:30:16,514 --> 00:30:18,080
David: And a lot of people
don't seem to know
458
00:30:18,182 --> 00:30:19,915
about the tickling fetish.
459
00:30:20,017 --> 00:30:21,716
Do you think it's a little bit
more unknown?
460
00:30:21,818 --> 00:30:23,851
Oh, totally.
Yeah, completely.
461
00:30:23,953 --> 00:30:26,520
'Cause most people, you know,
know about a foot fetish,
462
00:30:27,356 --> 00:30:28,988
um, but tickling?
463
00:30:29,090 --> 00:30:31,356
Most people are like,
"oh, wow. Is that a thing?"
464
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:39,563
It was in 1999. I had just
gotten out of grad school,
465
00:30:41,199 --> 00:30:43,032
you know, so I just got
a video camera,
466
00:30:43,134 --> 00:30:44,733
put together a little
business plan,
467
00:30:45,869 --> 00:30:46,934
talked to one of my friends
468
00:30:46,936 --> 00:30:49,069
and he financed me,
when I started the site,
469
00:30:49,171 --> 00:30:51,570
I think for $6000 or $7000.
470
00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:55,540
It got pretty much an
immediate response.
471
00:31:08,987 --> 00:31:10,186
I was making enough
after a year
472
00:31:10,288 --> 00:31:12,221
to quit my job
and do it full-time.
473
00:31:16,059 --> 00:31:17,191
David: So this is it?
474
00:31:17,493 --> 00:31:19,025
- This is it.
- This is the studio.
475
00:31:19,127 --> 00:31:21,093
- Mm-hm.
- The chair.
476
00:31:22,329 --> 00:31:25,129
And then the changing room,
bathroom.
477
00:31:25,331 --> 00:31:27,964
And so, this whole place
is purely for the tickling?
478
00:31:28,066 --> 00:31:29,231
Yes.
479
00:31:33,203 --> 00:31:35,203
David: Oh, so you've got a few
different spaces, right?
480
00:31:35,305 --> 00:31:36,404
Richard: Yeah, yeah.
481
00:31:36,506 --> 00:31:38,138
I used to do all this
out of my house.
482
00:31:38,306 --> 00:31:39,204
David: Yeah.
483
00:31:39,206 --> 00:31:41,773
And then it was, you know,
a parade of people coming in,
484
00:31:41,875 --> 00:31:44,642
do all this, have to clean up.
485
00:31:44,744 --> 00:31:47,611
You know, have to clean
it up before a shoot.
486
00:31:47,713 --> 00:31:50,280
And this way I can walk away.
487
00:31:50,382 --> 00:31:51,447
Yeah, this is great.
488
00:31:51,549 --> 00:31:52,614
Like, "I'm tired. Going home."
489
00:31:52,716 --> 00:31:53,781
David: You're done.
490
00:31:53,783 --> 00:31:55,716
Well, this is work, right?
It's like work, home.
491
00:31:55,818 --> 00:31:57,250
Richard: Mm-hm. Exactly.
492
00:31:57,819 --> 00:32:00,419
Have you done stuff like this
before for anyone else?
493
00:32:00,521 --> 00:32:02,220
Or this sort of a unique
thing for you?
494
00:32:02,322 --> 00:32:03,721
Uh, unique thing.
495
00:32:03,823 --> 00:32:06,290
I never worked for
a tickling site before.
496
00:32:06,392 --> 00:32:07,424
- Okay.
- Man: No.
497
00:32:07,426 --> 00:32:09,426
David: And what did you first
think when you got the pitch?
498
00:32:09,428 --> 00:32:11,327
Man: I mean, I laughed about it.
499
00:32:11,429 --> 00:32:13,228
I'm like,
this can't be really serious,
500
00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:14,962
like, people really can't...
501
00:32:15,064 --> 00:32:17,798
Enjoy watching this
or getting it done.
502
00:32:18,433 --> 00:32:19,598
But, um, I said, "why not?"
503
00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:21,166
You know, I'm more of like
the risk-taker.
504
00:32:21,268 --> 00:32:24,002
I'd rather say I did something
than didn't do something.
505
00:32:24,104 --> 00:32:25,169
So I came down,
506
00:32:27,339 --> 00:32:28,455
really was kind of nervous,
didn't know what to expect.
507
00:32:28,456 --> 00:32:29,572
And then...
But Richard put me at ease,
508
00:32:29,674 --> 00:32:31,607
and once you're trapped
in you're there.
509
00:32:31,709 --> 00:32:34,476
So, I mean, you might
as well enjoy it.
510
00:32:34,678 --> 00:32:35,910
All right.
511
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,114
- Richard: Okay, ready?
- I think you're...
512
00:32:42,584 --> 00:32:43,649
Man:
Take it easy on me today.
513
00:32:43,784 --> 00:32:44,983
Richard: Yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
514
00:32:45,085 --> 00:32:46,150
Man: That's good.
515
00:32:51,389 --> 00:32:53,255
- Got to enjoy my freedom now.
- Richard: Yeah.
516
00:32:53,690 --> 00:32:55,756
- Because I cannot.
- Richard: Wave goodbye.
517
00:32:55,891 --> 00:32:57,490
I am not getting out.
518
00:32:58,693 --> 00:33:00,124
Oh, shit.
519
00:33:02,561 --> 00:33:05,495
The world of tickling.
520
00:33:10,366 --> 00:33:11,932
So, catch your breath.
521
00:33:14,269 --> 00:33:16,435
- Breath caught.
- Okay.
522
00:33:25,978 --> 00:33:28,111
All right.
523
00:33:28,213 --> 00:33:29,879
Now tell everybody
what a tough guy you are.
524
00:33:33,150 --> 00:33:38,820
Just go.
525
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:53,866
Stop.
526
00:34:02,108 --> 00:34:03,674
Oh, my gosh.
527
00:34:04,309 --> 00:34:06,008
I hate this.
528
00:34:50,152 --> 00:34:51,751
David: So when did you realize
529
00:34:51,853 --> 00:34:56,922
that you found tickling
to be an erotic thing?
530
00:34:57,791 --> 00:34:59,257
Richard: I was very young,
531
00:34:59,392 --> 00:35:04,094
you know, probably five or six.
You know, very, very young.
532
00:35:08,566 --> 00:35:13,534
You see something in a cartoon
or a magazine that, you know,
533
00:35:13,636 --> 00:35:15,702
kind of interests
you as a little kid,
534
00:35:15,804 --> 00:35:17,570
and for me it would be,
you know, like,
535
00:35:17,672 --> 00:35:20,572
cartoon characters being
tickled or tied up or,
536
00:35:20,674 --> 00:35:21,973
you know, that sort of thing.
537
00:35:22,075 --> 00:35:24,742
And it would, you know,
fascinate me,
538
00:35:24,844 --> 00:35:27,144
but I had no idea why.
539
00:35:50,268 --> 00:35:52,935
Richard: How do you feel?
540
00:35:53,437 --> 00:35:54,969
I feel tired.
541
00:35:55,071 --> 00:35:57,337
- I feel sweaty.
- Can I get you some water?
542
00:35:57,439 --> 00:36:02,641
Yeah, water would probably work.
543
00:36:03,877 --> 00:36:06,244
Richard: I started to become
comfortable with this, uh,
544
00:36:06,379 --> 00:36:08,011
fetish and this part of myself,
545
00:36:08,346 --> 00:36:11,246
and started to really realize
that it was a part of myself,
546
00:36:11,348 --> 00:36:12,413
when I...
547
00:36:12,515 --> 00:36:14,815
When I got on aol
548
00:36:15,350 --> 00:36:17,283
and then did a search
for what I was looking for
549
00:36:17,385 --> 00:36:18,283
and found that, "wow!
550
00:36:20,053 --> 00:36:20,668
There's actually,
you know, quite a lot of
551
00:36:20,669 --> 00:36:21,284
other people
that are into this."
552
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,160
At the time,
the late '90s,
553
00:36:31,562 --> 00:36:34,863
was, um, somebody that posted
on the message boards a lot.
554
00:36:36,099 --> 00:36:39,800
And she said her name was
Terri, Terri tickle.
555
00:36:40,135 --> 00:36:45,103
And Terri disisto, she put
in what her real name was.
556
00:36:46,806 --> 00:36:48,705
She always had a picture
of herself.
557
00:36:48,940 --> 00:36:52,242
You know, a blonde,
pretty, college-aged girl.
558
00:36:52,644 --> 00:36:56,445
And, she always posted
the same verbiage.
559
00:36:56,547 --> 00:36:58,113
Something like,
"this is not porn.
560
00:36:58,215 --> 00:37:00,048
My interest is in tickling."
561
00:37:01,051 --> 00:37:05,286
And she just said that she was
a tickling fanatic and...
562
00:37:05,855 --> 00:37:08,222
But, I mean, these posts
were everywhere.
563
00:37:11,326 --> 00:37:13,592
And then, um, some videos
started popping up,
564
00:37:13,694 --> 00:37:15,794
you know, very,
you know, innocent.
565
00:37:17,363 --> 00:37:19,763
And, those are probably
the first
566
00:37:21,199 --> 00:37:24,566
tickle videos that I
ever saw on the Internet.
567
00:37:28,871 --> 00:37:31,271
David: There are still traces of
Terri tickle online
568
00:37:32,707 --> 00:37:34,407
from the mid-'90s,
569
00:37:34,408 --> 00:37:36,108
and as Richard said,
she was tickle-obsessed.
570
00:37:36,210 --> 00:37:38,743
Like Jane,
she also hired other people
571
00:37:38,845 --> 00:37:40,611
to shoot the videos she wanted.
572
00:37:43,282 --> 00:37:48,751
Well, the, uh,
just strange, rich brat,
573
00:37:49,453 --> 00:37:50,952
I guess you could say.
574
00:37:51,788 --> 00:37:55,522
Someone who, uh,
got her rocks off by, uh,
575
00:37:55,624 --> 00:37:58,358
seeing guys, uh,
tied and tickled.
576
00:37:58,460 --> 00:38:01,259
Obviously an extreme dominatrix.
577
00:38:03,363 --> 00:38:04,662
David: For most of his life,
578
00:38:04,764 --> 00:38:06,630
Dave starr has worked
on the edges
579
00:38:06,732 --> 00:38:08,665
of the entertainment industry,
580
00:38:08,967 --> 00:38:11,667
even acting in a
couple of pornos.
581
00:38:12,069 --> 00:38:13,334
During the mid-'90s,
582
00:38:13,569 --> 00:38:16,703
he noticed Terri's online posts
wanting tickling videos...
583
00:38:17,439 --> 00:38:18,704
Lots of them.
584
00:38:21,642 --> 00:38:26,510
Dave: Terri was, uh, out there
looking for guys, uh, 18 to 23.
585
00:38:27,546 --> 00:38:31,847
And I, uh, figured
that it would, um...
586
00:38:33,116 --> 00:38:35,382
Be something
right up my alley,
587
00:38:35,484 --> 00:38:36,716
based on my, uh,
working in casting.
588
00:38:40,888 --> 00:38:44,389
David: What sort of things was
she recruiting for specifically?
589
00:38:45,959 --> 00:38:49,693
Uh, tickle torture films.
Tickle torture videos.
590
00:38:50,562 --> 00:38:52,528
Can you turn that thing
around so I can see it?
591
00:38:52,897 --> 00:38:54,062
Man: All right.
592
00:38:56,433 --> 00:38:58,032
- Is that all right?
- Yeah, that's good.
593
00:39:01,570 --> 00:39:04,904
Dave: She claimed it was
for a private collection,
594
00:39:06,908 --> 00:39:09,675
so I was thinking,
"okay, amateur hour."
595
00:39:16,183 --> 00:39:21,419
But me, I rapidly took it
into a professional level.
596
00:39:22,188 --> 00:39:24,588
Man 1:
Okay, are you, uh, ticklish?
597
00:39:24,957 --> 00:39:26,256
Man 2: Uh, yes, I am.
598
00:39:26,625 --> 00:39:28,758
Man 1: Okay,
step forward about a foot.
599
00:39:29,093 --> 00:39:32,694
Okay. Place your hands behind
your head, inter-clasp them.
600
00:39:32,796 --> 00:39:34,729
Step back a little further,
though.
601
00:39:34,831 --> 00:39:36,163
Okay, right about there.
602
00:39:36,265 --> 00:39:37,530
Okay, inter-clasp them
603
00:39:37,632 --> 00:39:39,765
and do not release them
at any time
604
00:39:39,867 --> 00:39:41,266
during the entire tickle test.
605
00:39:41,368 --> 00:39:42,834
Do your worst on this one.
606
00:39:43,303 --> 00:39:44,568
Dave: We would put them
in through
607
00:39:44,670 --> 00:39:46,670
their stage one audition,
608
00:39:46,772 --> 00:39:50,239
which is the questions
and the test tickles.
609
00:39:51,275 --> 00:39:54,109
Man 1: Do not collapse.
Stay looking up at us.
610
00:39:59,948 --> 00:40:01,414
Stay facing us.
611
00:40:08,521 --> 00:40:15,425
Dave: Stage two is tying them to
the table, tickling them,
612
00:40:15,527 --> 00:40:17,527
flipping them over
every 15 minutes,
613
00:40:17,629 --> 00:40:21,030
kind of like a sausage or meat.
614
00:40:24,801 --> 00:40:26,267
Dave: And then after that, uh,
615
00:40:26,369 --> 00:40:30,103
we had the competitive tickling
at that point.
616
00:40:30,205 --> 00:40:33,372
Tickle wars and stuff like that.
617
00:40:33,474 --> 00:40:37,642
And that would involve
a massive production.
618
00:40:51,923 --> 00:40:53,422
Woman: Okay, don't laugh.
619
00:40:53,891 --> 00:40:55,957
You're giggling already,
aren't you?
620
00:40:57,860 --> 00:41:00,060
Well, you just might be
the type of person
621
00:41:00,162 --> 00:41:02,128
that David starr
is looking for.
622
00:41:02,230 --> 00:41:03,495
He is a Hollywood producer
623
00:41:03,597 --> 00:41:06,097
working on a new
reality-based game show
624
00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:08,499
called tickle talk.
625
00:41:08,868 --> 00:41:13,070
Dave:
626
00:41:19,210 --> 00:41:20,409
Woman: It might be
preferable to
627
00:41:20,511 --> 00:41:22,644
eating rats or grubs
on survivor
628
00:41:22,746 --> 00:41:24,479
but just barely.
629
00:41:24,581 --> 00:41:27,848
I'm Anne James,
ksen k96 news.
630
00:41:27,950 --> 00:41:30,817
David: Dave starr had steady
work for five years,
631
00:41:30,919 --> 00:41:34,152
even when Terri was
hospitalized for six months.
632
00:41:34,754 --> 00:41:36,019
During that time,
633
00:41:36,121 --> 00:41:37,753
she just wrote
letters specifying
634
00:41:37,855 --> 00:41:40,755
exactly what she wanted
in the tickling videos.
635
00:41:40,857 --> 00:41:43,023
Terri:
"David, merry Christmas!
636
00:41:43,125 --> 00:41:45,358
So sorry,
I'm in the hospital with mono."
637
00:41:45,460 --> 00:41:48,327
"David, just a few things
I need you to do..."
638
00:41:48,429 --> 00:41:50,996
"Tell them I will send the
computer as soon as I'm well."
639
00:41:51,098 --> 00:41:53,364
"His name is Josh." "I hope
to be online again in feb."
640
00:41:53,466 --> 00:41:56,633
"I'm still sick in bed."
"That's all for now. Td."
641
00:41:59,971 --> 00:42:02,371
My most ticklish place is,
i guess...
642
00:42:03,374 --> 00:42:07,776
Definitely, like...
It'd have to be in my legs...
643
00:42:08,578 --> 00:42:11,879
More than, like, my armpits
or my feet, I think, but...
644
00:42:12,147 --> 00:42:14,714
Dave: At that time
she wanted to put up
645
00:42:14,816 --> 00:42:18,150
and did indeed put up
a website for a while, uh,
646
00:42:18,252 --> 00:42:22,019
unauthorized releasing
of the videos...
647
00:42:23,222 --> 00:42:25,155
Against the
agreement of the talent,
648
00:42:25,757 --> 00:42:27,156
and I flipped my lid.
649
00:42:27,591 --> 00:42:29,324
And, lo and behold,
650
00:42:29,426 --> 00:42:33,160
she goes and registers domains
in their names
651
00:42:33,795 --> 00:42:35,461
and then proceeds to...
652
00:42:36,263 --> 00:42:40,331
Release all their content on
to those particular websites.
653
00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:53,709
Alden: She was, like,
sending me emails about, um,
654
00:42:53,811 --> 00:42:55,043
"what do you think
your mother's
655
00:42:55,145 --> 00:42:56,844
gonna think about this?"
656
00:42:57,313 --> 00:43:01,181
And then, like, I'd be like,
you know, "fuck you, bitch."
657
00:43:01,283 --> 00:43:05,851
And she'd be, like...
Like, totally antagonizing.
658
00:43:05,953 --> 00:43:10,689
Like...
I mean, she was such a cunt.
659
00:43:15,361 --> 00:43:19,229
It was an assault not just on
me but on my family, you know?
660
00:43:20,298 --> 00:43:23,065
I mean, I couldn't have a more
conservative family, you know?
661
00:43:23,268 --> 00:43:26,969
I'm, I'm in a family full of
republican, military people,
662
00:43:27,071 --> 00:43:30,505
and I'm a...
I was a professional banker.
663
00:43:30,607 --> 00:43:35,042
And here I am, like,
with basically a porn site,
664
00:43:35,144 --> 00:43:38,278
where I'm not naked, but,
i mean, I might as well be.
665
00:43:38,380 --> 00:43:41,381
You know, this was
ruining my life at the time.
666
00:43:41,483 --> 00:43:42,648
That's how I felt.
667
00:43:42,883 --> 00:43:46,050
It certainly was affecting my
ability to function,
668
00:43:46,152 --> 00:43:51,721
because it was
so emotionally draining.
669
00:43:51,889 --> 00:43:57,124
Part of the reason was because
there's nobody to help me.
670
00:43:58,494 --> 00:44:02,629
It's like you lose control over,
you know, your life.
671
00:44:10,004 --> 00:44:13,738
Dave: Well, that's when the,
uh, crap started happening,
672
00:44:13,906 --> 00:44:15,171
uh, with me.
673
00:44:16,274 --> 00:44:19,475
Um, you decide,
"okay, because I, uh,
674
00:44:19,577 --> 00:44:22,578
I closed down
submissions for her,
675
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:23,745
and,
676
00:44:23,747 --> 00:44:28,316
I guess, I basically was like
her tickling drug dealer,
677
00:44:28,685 --> 00:44:32,086
and, uh, since she wasn't
getting her drug any more,
678
00:44:32,188 --> 00:44:34,821
she was going through
tickle withdrawals.
679
00:44:36,658 --> 00:44:38,524
David: And what happened?
680
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,828
I started, uh,
receiving the, uh,
681
00:44:42,930 --> 00:44:46,931
strange postcards,
and the, uh, strange messages.
682
00:44:47,767 --> 00:44:51,901
The, uh... the, uh, talent was
starting to receive messages.
683
00:44:52,436 --> 00:44:57,071
And, uh, she also deployed a
thing called the phone blaster,
684
00:44:57,173 --> 00:45:03,677
which was to call
everybody with obscene messages.
685
00:45:04,646 --> 00:45:08,414
Woman:
686
00:45:38,312 --> 00:45:40,444
This person's on drugs.
687
00:45:42,381 --> 00:45:46,316
This person's gotta be
on crystal or something,
688
00:45:46,985 --> 00:45:50,252
or taking cocaine up the ass,
or something like that.
689
00:45:51,054 --> 00:45:52,453
It was weird.
690
00:45:54,990 --> 00:45:57,890
I'm glad to be able to make
this available to you.
691
00:45:57,992 --> 00:46:00,625
David: David kept a number of
letters Terri had sent him
692
00:46:00,727 --> 00:46:03,761
and was keen to show me
the extent of the abuse.
693
00:46:04,563 --> 00:46:09,131
- All right.
- This is the magic stuff.
694
00:46:10,267 --> 00:46:11,666
All right, what have we got?
695
00:46:15,871 --> 00:46:18,605
Yeah. Uh,
these are basically copies
696
00:46:18,707 --> 00:46:21,474
of what she would post online.
697
00:46:21,943 --> 00:46:23,676
So who's Barbara?
Is that your...?
698
00:46:23,778 --> 00:46:25,077
That's my mother.
699
00:46:25,779 --> 00:46:27,645
David: "Hairy and horny.
Hairy and horny.
700
00:46:27,747 --> 00:46:29,847
Jewish tickle filmer
David w. Starr
701
00:46:29,949 --> 00:46:31,415
is hook-nosed,
hairy and horny."
702
00:46:31,517 --> 00:46:36,953
She's used that tagline
for many, many, many times.
703
00:46:37,055 --> 00:46:38,187
What did your...?
704
00:46:38,556 --> 00:46:40,289
What did your mother
think of this stuff
705
00:46:40,391 --> 00:46:42,357
when this turned up? I mean...
706
00:46:42,459 --> 00:46:44,425
Actually, her phrase was, uh...
707
00:46:44,527 --> 00:46:47,528
Here's a, uh, note that she left
me because, uh,
708
00:46:47,630 --> 00:46:49,596
she would hold these for me
in the mail
709
00:46:49,698 --> 00:46:52,832
and basically just say,
"here's another nasty thing."
710
00:46:52,934 --> 00:46:55,334
And that one actually
is unopened.
711
00:46:55,436 --> 00:46:58,103
I've never even opened
it to this date.
712
00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:04,374
And let's see what our little
illustrious friend had to say.
713
00:47:04,876 --> 00:47:07,009
Oh, god. So it's a card.
714
00:47:08,779 --> 00:47:11,880
David: "Roses are red,
violets are bue."
715
00:47:11,982 --> 00:47:13,648
Can't spell worth shit.
716
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:16,484
"David w. Starr has
brought this upon you.
717
00:47:16,586 --> 00:47:19,553
Perhaps you wish,
perhaps instead,
718
00:47:19,655 --> 00:47:22,122
that David your failure,
not Edward, were dead."
719
00:47:22,224 --> 00:47:24,857
That's a reference to
my brother, who is dead.
720
00:47:26,060 --> 00:47:29,561
That's, uh, really extreme.
A little bit psycho.
721
00:47:30,063 --> 00:47:32,229
But, I mean, what...? When you
were getting all this material
722
00:47:32,331 --> 00:47:35,031
and some of it's talking about
your brother who
723
00:47:35,133 --> 00:47:36,532
- has passed away and...
- Uh-huh.
724
00:47:36,634 --> 00:47:37,866
Writing this stuff
to your mother,
725
00:47:37,968 --> 00:47:40,668
I mean, that,
that must have...
726
00:47:42,138 --> 00:47:45,405
I mean, that... that's not nice
receiving that on weekly basis.
727
00:47:45,507 --> 00:47:49,641
Uh, no, but it was on a
weekly basis, uh, yeah.
728
00:47:51,745 --> 00:47:53,577
Yeah, where did
they have the time?
729
00:47:55,847 --> 00:47:57,847
- Jeez, it's a birthday card.
- Yeah.
730
00:47:57,949 --> 00:47:59,315
"Happy birthday.
731
00:47:59,917 --> 00:48:04,685
Edward starr dead."
This is really cruel, right?
732
00:48:04,787 --> 00:48:06,086
It's very sick.
733
00:48:10,358 --> 00:48:12,725
David: The more I hear
about Terri disisto,
734
00:48:12,827 --> 00:48:15,260
the more she sounds
like Jane o'brien.
735
00:48:15,629 --> 00:48:19,430
To state the obvious, they
both really enjoy tickling.
736
00:48:19,532 --> 00:48:22,499
They also like being in
control and lashing out.
737
00:48:22,601 --> 00:48:24,333
I really appreciate it
and stay in touch.
738
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:29,003
David: And it turns out
Terri's habits started
739
00:48:29,105 --> 00:48:31,438
way before Dave starr
got involved.
740
00:48:31,873 --> 00:48:34,206
I've found a journalist who'd
spent a year uncovering
741
00:48:34,308 --> 00:48:37,909
the truth about Terri disisto
during the '90s.
742
00:48:39,512 --> 00:48:42,246
Hal: Terri disisto's mo
was to bait these boys
743
00:48:42,348 --> 00:48:44,348
into making
tickling videos with
744
00:48:44,450 --> 00:48:46,383
things that they wanted, right?
745
00:48:47,185 --> 00:48:48,951
You know, I mean,
imagine being a teenage boy,
746
00:48:49,053 --> 00:48:52,054
and, like, you get this random
email saying, you know,
747
00:48:52,156 --> 00:48:54,956
"i saw your posting about the
phish concert, and, uh,
748
00:48:55,058 --> 00:48:56,390
how would you like to go?"
749
00:48:56,492 --> 00:48:58,959
Or, " I can send you
$1000 cash."
750
00:48:59,061 --> 00:49:00,527
And you're like...
You're living in your dorm
751
00:49:00,629 --> 00:49:03,429
at James Madison university.
You're like, "yeah, sure.
752
00:49:03,531 --> 00:49:06,731
You're gonna send me
$1000 cash. Right."
753
00:49:07,734 --> 00:49:10,267
Fedex pulls up in front of your
dorm the next day,
754
00:49:10,369 --> 00:49:13,269
and there is ten $100 bills.
755
00:49:13,638 --> 00:49:14,970
You haven't done anything.
756
00:49:17,074 --> 00:49:19,541
She would just keep sending
them whatever they wanted,
757
00:49:19,643 --> 00:49:22,877
you know. Computers,
cameras, more cash,
758
00:49:23,145 --> 00:49:25,211
tickets to rock concerts.
759
00:49:26,714 --> 00:49:29,715
Then at some point,
even a teenage boy
760
00:49:29,817 --> 00:49:31,983
has all the toys
that they want.
761
00:49:32,885 --> 00:49:35,085
And they say, "i... I'm done."
762
00:49:36,488 --> 00:49:41,290
But I think the thing that
she hates the most was no.
763
00:49:41,558 --> 00:49:45,625
It was like...
A bomb went off.
764
00:49:48,262 --> 00:49:49,728
And she'd say, "well,
765
00:49:49,863 --> 00:49:53,731
if you don't do it,
I'm gonna make your life hell."
766
00:49:55,234 --> 00:49:57,234
"I'm gonna send clips
of these videos
767
00:49:57,336 --> 00:49:58,802
to your wrestling coach."
768
00:49:59,437 --> 00:50:01,837
"I'm gonna send clips of
these videos to your mom."
769
00:50:01,939 --> 00:50:04,506
"I'm gonna send clips of these
videos to your grandmother."
770
00:50:04,608 --> 00:50:06,107
"I'm gonna send
clips of these videos
771
00:50:06,242 --> 00:50:08,408
to the president
of your university."
772
00:50:08,510 --> 00:50:10,009
"I'm gonna post them
all over the Internet."
773
00:50:10,244 --> 00:50:12,911
"I'm gonna pretend to be you
and do things on the Internet
774
00:50:13,013 --> 00:50:15,580
that are gonna create a terrible
reputation for you."
775
00:50:15,682 --> 00:50:20,183
"I'm gonna shut down the entire
college campus computer system
776
00:50:20,285 --> 00:50:23,285
at your college, and they're
gonna think it's you."
777
00:50:25,623 --> 00:50:26,888
And then it happened.
778
00:50:41,504 --> 00:50:43,871
Debbie: The first story I did
was because
779
00:50:44,306 --> 00:50:47,974
she was attacking, um,
drexel university.
780
00:50:49,844 --> 00:50:53,979
And I found the student who, um,
781
00:50:54,748 --> 00:50:56,647
had made a number
of videos for her.
782
00:51:00,185 --> 00:51:03,452
And when he came to
Philadelphia to go to college,
783
00:51:03,720 --> 00:51:06,053
she wanted him to
continue making these videos,
784
00:51:06,155 --> 00:51:09,456
and he wanted to cut off his
relationship with her.
785
00:51:09,658 --> 00:51:12,491
And she retaliated
on so many levels.
786
00:51:14,328 --> 00:51:16,094
Their email servers' computers
were being shut down
787
00:51:16,196 --> 00:51:18,162
with these
denial-of-service attacks
788
00:51:18,264 --> 00:51:20,964
that indicated that they
were coming from him.
789
00:51:24,336 --> 00:51:26,169
Email-bombing the white house,
790
00:51:26,538 --> 00:51:28,571
indicating that
it came from him.
791
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,473
Yeah, that's pretty serious
stuff when the secret service
792
00:51:32,575 --> 00:51:35,976
shows up in your college dorm
and you're 19 years old.
793
00:51:42,616 --> 00:51:45,483
I was just curious,
and I somehow
794
00:51:45,585 --> 00:51:49,419
started contacting
Terri on aol.
795
00:51:49,421 --> 00:51:50,686
She had an account.
796
00:51:53,090 --> 00:51:55,690
And we would have these
chats late at night.
797
00:51:56,592 --> 00:52:00,960
And I was curious what kind of
mind was behind this...
798
00:52:01,629 --> 00:52:03,862
Celebrated Internet personage.
799
00:52:04,931 --> 00:52:07,798
And it was,
it was kind of crazy.
800
00:52:07,900 --> 00:52:09,599
We would have
these conversations,
801
00:52:11,602 --> 00:52:12,401
and she would...
802
00:52:12,402 --> 00:52:13,201
When she realized
that I did wine, she would say,
803
00:52:13,303 --> 00:52:16,370
"oh, I'm having a
glass of chardonnay!"
804
00:52:16,472 --> 00:52:20,473
And I could just hear this
voice because as it went on,
805
00:52:20,575 --> 00:52:23,676
it was almost like she was
completely intoxicated
806
00:52:23,911 --> 00:52:27,612
with this power
that she had to...
807
00:52:28,214 --> 00:52:30,214
To be so destructive
against people.
808
00:52:40,992 --> 00:52:45,060
Hal: I got word about a kid
who refused to make the videos.
809
00:52:46,730 --> 00:52:49,297
He posted that
he needed some help,
810
00:52:49,399 --> 00:52:51,632
and somebody said
they would help him.
811
00:52:55,304 --> 00:52:57,671
And somehow he got
emailed a file,
812
00:52:59,007 --> 00:53:03,008
and he was told, "if you email
this zip file to Terri,
813
00:53:03,110 --> 00:53:04,742
she will leave you alone."
814
00:53:08,514 --> 00:53:10,380
And then he sent me
that zip file.
815
00:53:16,087 --> 00:53:18,653
You know, and I remember
opening it up and thinking...
816
00:53:20,189 --> 00:53:23,657
"Wow! You know, this is it.
Like, this is...
817
00:53:24,092 --> 00:53:25,858
This is the smoking gun."
818
00:53:33,099 --> 00:53:36,567
David: The zip file contained
documents from her hard drive.
819
00:53:36,669 --> 00:53:40,436
As expected, there were files
relating to tickling shoots.
820
00:53:43,007 --> 00:53:48,110
But they also revealed the
true identity of Terri tickle.
821
00:54:00,991 --> 00:54:02,390
Hal: David d'amato.
822
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,861
She is really he, right?
823
00:54:18,339 --> 00:54:21,405
Debbie: He was an assistant
principal in a high school?
824
00:54:24,343 --> 00:54:25,608
I just...
825
00:54:28,746 --> 00:54:32,147
Couldn't believe it.
826
00:54:32,249 --> 00:54:34,882
I don't know why,
but it just seemed...
827
00:54:34,984 --> 00:54:38,785
Here is this sadistic person
exploiting these young people,
828
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:40,986
often underage,
829
00:54:42,889 --> 00:54:46,089
making their lives miserable,
embarrassing them,
830
00:54:46,825 --> 00:54:48,925
to an extent that it's every...
831
00:54:49,027 --> 00:54:52,828
It goes against everything that
an educator should be doing.
832
00:55:00,370 --> 00:55:02,937
Hal: When I did some more
checking, I found out that
833
00:55:03,039 --> 00:55:06,240
he had worked at, like,
eight schools in ten years.
834
00:55:07,743 --> 00:55:09,409
Which to me was
always a red flag
835
00:55:09,511 --> 00:55:10,977
that there was something
else going on.
836
00:55:11,079 --> 00:55:13,946
I mean, that's more than
just sheer incompetence.
837
00:55:16,583 --> 00:55:20,418
And then I found
social security numbers for her
838
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,653
that he had
gotten fraudulently...
839
00:55:23,422 --> 00:55:25,422
With dead people's names.
840
00:55:30,094 --> 00:55:34,496
So I contacted the FBI.
841
00:55:35,866 --> 00:55:38,666
I turned over all my
information to them.
842
00:55:40,236 --> 00:55:43,670
Within a week, they busted him.
843
00:55:56,551 --> 00:55:58,551
Debbie: We were shocked
at the sentencing
844
00:55:58,753 --> 00:56:01,453
because he got off so easy.
845
00:56:01,555 --> 00:56:04,188
For somebody who had done so
much damage,
846
00:56:05,457 --> 00:56:07,323
to me it was just extraordinary.
847
00:56:08,059 --> 00:56:10,626
And to not, to not have
restrictions on their
848
00:56:10,728 --> 00:56:14,829
Internet access after that,
how could...?
849
00:56:15,431 --> 00:56:18,298
And the... oh! And the idea that
he was going to law school
850
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:19,999
was just absurd.
851
00:56:22,503 --> 00:56:25,470
David: It turns out
David d'amato's father, George,
852
00:56:25,572 --> 00:56:28,306
co-founded one of wall street's
biggest law firms,
853
00:56:28,408 --> 00:56:32,676
d'amato & lynch, and David
got a really great lawyer.
854
00:56:33,178 --> 00:56:36,145
Instead of prison, d'amato was
allowed to serve his sentence
855
00:56:36,247 --> 00:56:38,247
in the halfway house
while he studied law
856
00:56:38,349 --> 00:56:41,916
at his father's Alma mater,
Fordham university.
857
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,187
Hal: The judge,
for some reason,
858
00:56:47,289 --> 00:56:50,690
decided that he would endorse
the law school path, right?
859
00:56:51,592 --> 00:56:53,091
Because, like, this is exactly
the kind of person
860
00:56:53,193 --> 00:56:54,926
that should be a lawyer, right?
861
00:56:55,028 --> 00:56:58,262
Somebody who has
defrauded people,
862
00:56:58,364 --> 00:57:00,330
somebody who has
stolen people's identities.
863
00:57:00,432 --> 00:57:02,064
A federal freakin' crime, right?
864
00:57:02,166 --> 00:57:05,400
I mean... like,
you know, stolen identity.
865
00:57:05,502 --> 00:57:07,602
Stolen a social security number
of a dead woman,
866
00:57:07,704 --> 00:57:09,670
of two dead people, right?
867
00:57:12,207 --> 00:57:15,941
It said, "David d'amato,
39, of garden city,
868
00:57:16,510 --> 00:57:18,877
plead guilty
for two federal counts of
869
00:57:18,979 --> 00:57:20,378
computer fraud and abuse."
870
00:57:23,683 --> 00:57:25,883
Nothing about the tickling,
871
00:57:25,985 --> 00:57:29,853
nothing about the boys, nothing
about the identity theft.
872
00:57:29,988 --> 00:57:31,787
Zero. Nothing.
873
00:57:32,790 --> 00:57:35,724
David: Once Fordham became
aware of d'amato's convictions,
874
00:57:35,826 --> 00:57:37,792
his admission was revoked.
875
00:57:37,894 --> 00:57:39,460
No longer able to study law,
876
00:57:39,562 --> 00:57:42,095
d'amato finished
his sentence in prison.
877
00:57:42,497 --> 00:57:45,598
But I've realized that
didn't stop the tickling.
878
00:57:46,667 --> 00:57:49,200
David: So, this is 2002. So this
is writing to David starr,
879
00:57:49,302 --> 00:57:51,435
who would shoot
these boys tickling
880
00:57:51,537 --> 00:57:53,270
and then send the videos...
881
00:57:54,573 --> 00:57:55,705
To Terri. That was a, that's--
882
00:57:55,807 --> 00:57:58,374
because she,
what she would have is...
883
00:57:59,210 --> 00:58:01,076
- Do you want your glasses?
- Back in the early days...
884
00:58:01,178 --> 00:58:03,144
Yeah. Back in the early days...
885
00:58:05,015 --> 00:58:11,018
Terri would have friends
tickle them and send them the...
886
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,320
They were amateur tapes.
887
00:58:13,422 --> 00:58:15,755
- These are now professional?
- Well, this is...
888
00:58:15,823 --> 00:58:17,389
- Look at the date on it.
- '02?
889
00:58:17,491 --> 00:58:18,690
Look at the date.
890
00:58:19,659 --> 00:58:22,826
- Is the "t" Terri?
- Yeah, it's Terri writing.
891
00:58:22,928 --> 00:58:27,096
So that was during, um,
lock-up time.
892
00:58:27,198 --> 00:58:29,998
Oh, in jail. I get it.
893
00:58:30,100 --> 00:58:35,336
"David, a few other things.
Email... explain my illness."
894
00:58:35,438 --> 00:58:37,538
Oh. "Tell him I'll pay
everything owed
895
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,574
as soon as the mono is better."
896
00:58:40,676 --> 00:58:46,245
Oh. "Get headshots."
My god! Oh, my god!
897
00:58:47,648 --> 00:58:53,618
"I won't be online for a while
as I am very sick." Oh.
898
00:58:59,725 --> 00:59:04,360
- Couldn't stop.
- No. No.
899
00:59:06,297 --> 00:59:08,697
David: It seems that
since the mid-'90s,
900
00:59:08,799 --> 00:59:11,733
David d'amato has never
stopped finding elaborate ways
901
00:59:11,835 --> 00:59:14,368
to get young men
to tickle each other.
902
00:59:14,903 --> 00:59:16,469
His persona of Terri tickle
903
00:59:16,571 --> 00:59:20,105
seems to have dropped off the
radar around 2006.
904
00:59:20,874 --> 00:59:24,742
A while later, Jane o'brien
arrived on the scene.
905
00:59:28,547 --> 00:59:30,446
We've posted
this theory online,
906
00:59:30,548 --> 00:59:33,314
and David d'amato is not happy.
907
00:59:35,084 --> 00:59:38,752
He's hired not one, but two
private investigators,
908
00:59:38,854 --> 00:59:41,587
one in New Zealand
and one in New York.
909
00:59:43,257 --> 00:59:46,958
The message is clear. They tell
us to stop what we're doing
910
00:59:47,060 --> 00:59:50,761
and that d'amato has nothing
to do with Jane o'brien media.
911
00:59:53,765 --> 00:59:55,498
On top of that,
912
00:59:55,499 --> 00:59:57,232
David d'amato has also hired
a New Zealand lawyer.
913
00:59:57,535 --> 01:00:00,068
He's demanding
an apology and retraction
914
01:00:00,170 --> 01:00:03,171
or else he'll see us
in a New Zealand court.
915
01:00:12,414 --> 01:00:13,579
We're now being attacked
916
01:00:13,681 --> 01:00:16,014
by Jane o'brien's lawyers
on one side
917
01:00:16,116 --> 01:00:18,449
and David d'amato's
on the other,
918
01:00:18,951 --> 01:00:22,751
both insisting they have
nothing to do with each other.
919
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,954
Once again, we're way
out of our depth.
920
01:00:29,092 --> 01:00:30,691
Things get even more surreal
921
01:00:30,759 --> 01:00:32,692
with a phone call
from Michigan,
922
01:00:32,794 --> 01:00:35,161
where there's a very different
tickling operation
923
01:00:35,263 --> 01:00:37,096
also being run by Jane.
924
01:00:40,367 --> 01:00:44,268
Jordan:
925
01:01:24,776 --> 01:01:27,076
David: So, like,
crime is pretty high--
926
01:01:27,244 --> 01:01:28,876
- Jordan: Yeah--
- ...Here, right?
927
01:01:28,978 --> 01:01:33,813
Murder, robberies, um, rape,
I mean, theft.
928
01:01:33,915 --> 01:01:35,681
It's all up there,
929
01:01:35,783 --> 01:01:39,084
especially for being as small,
um, as what it is.
930
01:01:39,186 --> 01:01:41,085
We've made it now, uh,
931
01:01:41,187 --> 01:01:45,555
on to the top 100 most dangerous
cities in the United States.
932
01:01:46,257 --> 01:01:47,990
David:
Do you think on some level
933
01:01:48,092 --> 01:01:51,359
Jane kind of directed things
here because it is a poor area?
934
01:01:51,461 --> 01:01:55,062
Yeah, you know,
the poverty level, you know,
935
01:01:55,164 --> 01:01:56,730
- is easy to target, you know.
- Mm.
936
01:01:56,832 --> 01:01:59,265
Thousands of dollars
in kids' hands is...
937
01:01:59,367 --> 01:02:01,266
That's a,
that's a big, big deal.
938
01:02:48,075 --> 01:02:53,811
David: Jane has taken a liking
to one of muskegon's main
sports, mixed martial arts.
939
01:02:53,913 --> 01:02:58,081
A group of young, athletic men
desperate for extra money.
940
01:03:19,704 --> 01:03:22,771
Jordan: That's what
she was trying to do,
is break into the mma world.
941
01:03:23,774 --> 01:03:26,307
Because it's not illegal
to tickle somebody
942
01:03:26,409 --> 01:03:29,343
to get out of a submission
in mixed martial arts.
943
01:03:30,112 --> 01:03:31,611
Like, she was trying
to pitch that
944
01:03:31,713 --> 01:03:32,611
because she, like,
945
01:03:32,613 --> 01:03:35,347
looked it up in all the rules
and everything.
946
01:03:36,283 --> 01:03:39,784
But if you tickle a guy in the
middle of that ring
947
01:03:39,886 --> 01:03:41,485
to get out of a submission,
948
01:03:41,587 --> 01:03:44,187
you might step out of the cage
and get punched in the face.
949
01:03:44,923 --> 01:03:49,525
Like, never in a million years
out of all my fights
950
01:03:49,693 --> 01:03:52,326
would I ever try to
tickle somebody
951
01:03:52,428 --> 01:03:55,862
to get out of a submission.
Fuck, no!
952
01:04:13,143 --> 01:04:14,609
David: As an ex-fighter,
953
01:04:14,711 --> 01:04:18,179
Jordan was paid to recruit
tickling talent in the town.
954
01:04:18,281 --> 01:04:22,115
He's the only one in muskegon
prepared to appear on camera.
955
01:04:23,418 --> 01:04:29,621
She offered my one buddy a
2014 Chevy cruze and $30,000.
956
01:04:30,056 --> 01:04:32,222
- What? What for? To tickle?
- Yeah.
957
01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:35,691
Just 'cause, like,
she liked him.
958
01:04:35,793 --> 01:04:36,958
Yeah, right. She...
He was a favorite.
959
01:04:37,126 --> 01:04:38,492
- Like, yeah.
- Yeah.
960
01:04:38,594 --> 01:04:41,027
Asians and redheads
are what they call premiums.
961
01:04:41,129 --> 01:04:43,529
If you get those, like,
she gives you bonuses.
962
01:04:44,164 --> 01:04:46,130
I'm Jordan schillaci,
and this is cet.
963
01:04:46,232 --> 01:04:48,398
Uh, we're gonna be
having a discussion,
964
01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:51,234
more of a debate today about
whether tickling
965
01:04:51,336 --> 01:04:54,470
is effective in
a combat situation.
966
01:04:58,809 --> 01:05:00,642
We ended up setting up
a tickle cell. Like,
967
01:05:00,844 --> 01:05:02,043
where you get guys to come in,
968
01:05:02,145 --> 01:05:04,812
"we'll pay you and you
pay them to audition."
969
01:05:04,914 --> 01:05:07,747
No!
970
01:05:10,284 --> 01:05:12,851
So we'd choose a hotel,
nothing fancy,
971
01:05:12,953 --> 01:05:16,988
and, uh, the guys would come
in and hang out, you know,
972
01:05:17,090 --> 01:05:21,391
smoke, drink, eat pizza,
fuckin', and we'd hurry up
973
01:05:21,493 --> 01:05:24,894
and run through, you know,
five, six, seven guys.
974
01:05:30,100 --> 01:05:32,934
So you're... you were looking
after the tickle cell in
muskegon?
975
01:05:33,036 --> 01:05:35,202
Yeah, they have them set up
all over the us.
976
01:05:35,304 --> 01:05:39,072
Ohio, Michigan,
Florida, New York.
977
01:05:39,174 --> 01:05:41,040
- I mean, they're everywhere.
- Right.
978
01:05:41,175 --> 01:05:43,175
- And they're all for Jane?
- Yeah.
979
01:05:43,710 --> 01:05:45,076
Fuckin' hell.
980
01:05:51,116 --> 01:05:52,582
Jordan: Well, that's where
a lot of people started
981
01:05:52,684 --> 01:05:54,383
getting really
really upset, man.
982
01:05:54,485 --> 01:05:55,717
Because all of sudden
these videos
983
01:05:55,719 --> 01:05:57,885
that are supposed to be
just auditions were on YouTube,
984
01:05:57,887 --> 01:06:00,888
vimeo, and every other
site you could imagine.
985
01:06:00,990 --> 01:06:03,289
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Nobody was okay with that.
986
01:06:05,660 --> 01:06:07,292
One of the guys, Brodie,
987
01:06:07,394 --> 01:06:10,561
like, his family was very upset
with him. It was all over.
988
01:06:10,663 --> 01:06:13,330
Like, people just picked on him
and picked on him.
989
01:06:14,066 --> 01:06:17,000
You know, he was underage,
still in school.
990
01:06:17,302 --> 01:06:19,568
And it wasn't supposed
to go out on the Internet.
991
01:06:19,670 --> 01:06:22,337
It wasn't supposed to be put up,
and, uh,
992
01:06:22,472 --> 01:06:26,173
you know,
that just kind of sucked.
993
01:06:26,275 --> 01:06:28,408
Because, like I said,
it took Brodie...
994
01:06:28,510 --> 01:06:29,842
It hit one of the hardest.
995
01:06:29,944 --> 01:06:31,476
Like, this whole situation
996
01:06:31,578 --> 01:06:33,978
and then being underage
and his parents.
997
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:36,213
Who do you have to turn to?
Who are you going to attack?
998
01:06:36,315 --> 01:06:39,749
No... Jane o'brien's a ghost.
Nobody knows who it is.
999
01:06:41,953 --> 01:06:43,552
Jordan: Cody-bear, no.
1000
01:06:44,521 --> 01:06:47,054
This is Colton,
this is my nephew.
1001
01:06:47,156 --> 01:06:48,922
- David: Hey, man.
- Colton, how old are you?
1002
01:06:49,925 --> 01:06:51,224
How old are you?
1003
01:06:51,426 --> 01:06:52,691
- Three.
- You're three?
1004
01:06:52,793 --> 01:06:54,325
You're three? All right.
1005
01:06:55,127 --> 01:06:57,193
- I'm David.
- I'm Phil. How are you doing?
1006
01:06:57,295 --> 01:06:58,560
It's nice to meet you, sir.
1007
01:06:59,629 --> 01:07:02,062
I was really, really reluctant
1008
01:07:02,164 --> 01:07:03,696
when Jordan
started talking about this.
1009
01:07:03,831 --> 01:07:06,932
And he's like, "this lady seems
straight and legit, mom."
1010
01:07:07,034 --> 01:07:10,335
I'm like, you know,
"these... these boys are young."
1011
01:07:10,437 --> 01:07:13,871
It's easy to believe,
but when you're an old mom,
1012
01:07:14,306 --> 01:07:17,073
you're a little more leery
for the boys, and,
1013
01:07:17,208 --> 01:07:20,209
I was very leery
right from get-go
1014
01:07:20,311 --> 01:07:22,377
that the boys were
gonna get into trouble
1015
01:07:22,479 --> 01:07:24,278
and this was not legit.
1016
01:07:34,622 --> 01:07:36,521
Jordan: She has all the money in
the world, it seems like,
1017
01:07:36,623 --> 01:07:38,856
whoever it is,
to be able to do this.
1018
01:07:38,958 --> 01:07:42,258
But they're waiting for
that day that you rely
1019
01:07:43,027 --> 01:07:45,193
on that as a sole income.
1020
01:07:45,528 --> 01:07:47,561
That was her big,
I think, power trip.
1021
01:07:47,663 --> 01:07:51,297
She waited until a bunch of
us relied on that income
1022
01:07:51,399 --> 01:07:53,932
because that was our
only source of income.
1023
01:07:54,034 --> 01:07:55,767
We'd been doing it for so long,
we didn't think...
1024
01:07:55,869 --> 01:07:58,469
She waited until she had
complete control,
1025
01:07:58,571 --> 01:08:00,938
basically, over your situation,
1026
01:08:01,307 --> 01:08:02,806
and that's when she
wanted to yank that rug
1027
01:08:02,908 --> 01:08:04,440
right out from under you.
1028
01:08:09,313 --> 01:08:12,480
David: David d'amato. Have you
heard that name before?
1029
01:08:13,015 --> 01:08:14,647
In relation to all this stuff?
1030
01:08:16,350 --> 01:08:19,250
I am literally, like,
trembling right now.
1031
01:08:19,352 --> 01:08:20,451
Are you actually shaking?
1032
01:08:20,453 --> 01:08:24,555
Yeah, I'm actually, like,
shaking. Like, I'm not, like...
1033
01:08:24,657 --> 01:08:27,591
Like I said, like, from being
from here, I don't take shit.
1034
01:08:27,693 --> 01:08:30,794
Like, if I met up with that guy,
I'd punch him right out.
1035
01:08:30,896 --> 01:08:33,096
And when he woke up, he'd be
strapped to a chair with a...
1036
01:08:33,198 --> 01:08:34,263
Like, I'd be like,
1037
01:08:34,431 --> 01:08:35,797
"dude, you're telling me
everything right now."
1038
01:08:43,072 --> 01:08:45,405
David: The tickling's still
happening in this town.
1039
01:08:45,907 --> 01:08:48,007
Jordan: The money is endless.
1040
01:08:48,109 --> 01:08:51,276
I've never seen it stop coming
and just flowing in.
1041
01:08:51,378 --> 01:08:53,111
And it's not just through
Michigan and la,
1042
01:08:53,213 --> 01:08:54,345
it's everywhere.
1043
01:08:55,014 --> 01:08:58,949
Like, england,
Australia, Italy.
1044
01:08:59,051 --> 01:09:01,985
I mean, the money's
still coming and going.
1045
01:09:06,424 --> 01:09:07,790
David: This tickling empire
1046
01:09:07,892 --> 01:09:10,291
is way bigger
than we ever imagined.
1047
01:09:12,261 --> 01:09:15,328
We're going to New York
to find David d'amato.
1048
01:09:52,731 --> 01:09:56,666
I can feel the rich/bad aura.
1049
01:09:59,270 --> 01:10:02,204
David d'amato's address is
listed in garden city,
1050
01:10:02,306 --> 01:10:04,705
an affluent suburb
of long island.
1051
01:10:07,309 --> 01:10:09,876
He lives on the top floor
of this building.
1052
01:10:11,412 --> 01:10:12,577
Lance:
Lance Roberts speaking.
1053
01:10:12,679 --> 01:10:14,345
David:
Oh, hi. It's David speaking.
1054
01:10:14,447 --> 01:10:17,080
I just wanted to talk to
David d'amato.
1055
01:10:17,449 --> 01:10:20,216
Lance: Um, okay. I can't
give you his phone number.
1056
01:10:20,351 --> 01:10:21,516
I really can't even
give you any
1057
01:10:21,618 --> 01:10:23,317
personal information on him.
1058
01:10:23,752 --> 01:10:24,817
David: Okay.
1059
01:10:25,252 --> 01:10:26,551
Lance: Do you know him?
1060
01:10:26,653 --> 01:10:29,353
- Yes, I do. Yes.
- You're a friend of his?
1061
01:10:29,455 --> 01:10:32,155
Um, I'm not a friend, no,
but I've, um...
1062
01:10:32,257 --> 01:10:33,756
I've been trying to get
in touch with him
1063
01:10:33,858 --> 01:10:35,224
but have been struggling.
1064
01:10:36,026 --> 01:10:37,091
Lance: Okay, what I do is,
1065
01:10:37,193 --> 01:10:39,026
I have a way of leaving him
a message.
1066
01:10:39,962 --> 01:10:42,195
I can't guarantee that
he's gonna call you back
1067
01:10:42,297 --> 01:10:43,396
if he doesn't know you.
1068
01:10:43,398 --> 01:10:46,265
- Okay, thank you so much. Bye.
- You're welcome.
1069
01:10:53,705 --> 01:10:55,671
David:
D'amato never calls us back,
1070
01:10:55,773 --> 01:10:58,907
and we've got no other way to
contact him directly.
1071
01:11:01,177 --> 01:11:02,442
So annoying.
1072
01:11:08,349 --> 01:11:10,415
It's all right.
There's still tomorrow.
1073
01:11:14,319 --> 01:11:17,419
David: But that night we get a
frustrating phone call.
1074
01:11:18,722 --> 01:11:21,355
My concern is that we can't
do more or less anything
1075
01:11:21,457 --> 01:11:23,123
we have planned for
the rest of the trip.
1076
01:11:24,526 --> 01:11:26,358
I know. It's, like,
it's fuckin' insane.
1077
01:11:28,395 --> 01:11:30,060
Okay. Bye-bye.
1078
01:11:32,898 --> 01:11:35,865
David: All the threats are
worrying our film's producer.
1079
01:11:35,967 --> 01:11:37,700
He doesn't want us
to risk provoking
1080
01:11:37,802 --> 01:11:40,302
any further legal action
from d'amato.
1081
01:11:40,837 --> 01:11:41,735
So he's saying,
1082
01:11:41,737 --> 01:11:43,603
"well, what if you do everything
that you were gonna do,
1083
01:11:43,605 --> 01:11:45,805
except don't go and
chase d'amato down?"
1084
01:11:45,907 --> 01:11:47,539
And I'm like,
"well, anything we do
1085
01:11:47,641 --> 01:11:49,574
that lets d'amato know we're
looking into him again."
1086
01:11:49,676 --> 01:11:51,542
- Well, from now on in is that.
- Yeah, literally.
1087
01:11:51,644 --> 01:11:54,310
So he says, "well, maybe we cut
the thing short, then.
1088
01:11:55,146 --> 01:11:56,445
Just go home."
1089
01:11:57,481 --> 01:11:59,314
I know it's like...
It's fuckin' insane.
1090
01:12:09,559 --> 01:12:12,927
David: The next day we put
chasing d'amato on hold.
1091
01:12:16,165 --> 01:12:18,232
I want to know how on earth
1092
01:12:18,334 --> 01:12:20,767
a former deputy principal
pays for all this.
1093
01:12:21,369 --> 01:12:24,770
We can't find any sign he's
earning money from the videos,
1094
01:12:24,872 --> 01:12:27,505
but he's spending lots
of money making them.
1095
01:12:28,007 --> 01:12:31,341
He's flying up to ten people
into la almost every month
1096
01:12:31,443 --> 01:12:33,376
from all
over the world,
1097
01:12:33,478 --> 01:12:35,010
putting them up
in a nice hotel,
1098
01:12:35,112 --> 01:12:37,445
paying them thousands in cash.
1099
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:39,546
And that's not even taking
into account
1100
01:12:39,648 --> 01:12:40,947
the cost of running
tickle cells,
1101
01:12:41,049 --> 01:12:42,882
like the one in muskegon.
1102
01:12:44,952 --> 01:12:47,118
Both David's parents
are now deceased,
1103
01:12:47,220 --> 01:12:50,087
but his father's law firm is
one of wall street's biggest.
1104
01:12:50,856 --> 01:12:53,022
Maybe David is
reaping the benefits
1105
01:12:53,024 --> 01:12:54,757
of his father's empire.
1106
01:12:57,328 --> 01:12:58,593
Woman:
D'amato & lynch.
1107
01:12:58,695 --> 01:13:02,595
Oh, hi.
I just had an inquiry, um,
1108
01:13:02,697 --> 01:13:06,298
about the relationship with,
uh, um,
1109
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:10,935
David d'amato with the company,
the son of George d'amato.
1110
01:13:11,037 --> 01:13:13,037
Is there someone I could
talk to about this?
1111
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:18,874
No, I'm sorry. And Mr. d'amato
has been gone for a long time.
1112
01:13:19,243 --> 01:13:24,645
Yeah, yeah. I'm looking into the
background to his son, David.
1113
01:13:24,747 --> 01:13:26,580
And I'm just trying to figure
out whether he's got
1114
01:13:26,682 --> 01:13:29,716
any financial relationship
with the company still.
1115
01:13:29,818 --> 01:13:33,452
No, I... I really don't know.
I'm sorry, I can't help you.
1116
01:13:33,554 --> 01:13:37,422
Is there someone I could talk to
at d'amato & lynch to find out?
1117
01:13:38,358 --> 01:13:41,759
Mm. Not that I believe, no.
I'm sorry.
1118
01:13:41,861 --> 01:13:44,328
Okay, but there must be a
way to find out, surely?
1119
01:13:44,830 --> 01:13:48,765
- Um, not here. Thank you.
1120
01:14:01,079 --> 01:14:04,480
Woman: I haven't seen David
in quite a few years.
1121
01:14:04,582 --> 01:14:06,148
I have no knowledge of him now.
1122
01:14:06,783 --> 01:14:09,483
Not in many years have I
had any contact with him,
1123
01:14:09,585 --> 01:14:11,751
so I really couldn't give
you any information.
1124
01:14:11,853 --> 01:14:14,787
David: Yeah, he's been
pretty aggressive towards me,
1125
01:14:14,889 --> 01:14:17,589
so I'm just trying to figure
out what his motivations are--
1126
01:14:17,691 --> 01:14:19,791
woman: Get away from him,
that's all I can tell you.
1127
01:14:20,693 --> 01:14:23,860
- David: Really?
- Yeah. Stay away from him.
1128
01:14:35,139 --> 01:14:37,105
David: This was every
conversation I had
1129
01:14:37,207 --> 01:14:40,808
with anyone even remotely
related to David d'amato.
1130
01:14:40,910 --> 01:14:44,044
"I can't tell you anything,
but stay away."
1131
01:14:44,146 --> 01:14:46,613
But all I want to
do is the opposite.
1132
01:14:46,715 --> 01:14:50,183
Someone has to confront this
bully, lawsuits or not.
1133
01:15:04,131 --> 01:15:08,166
Dylan: Okay. So, this is the car
we're looking for.
1134
01:15:08,268 --> 01:15:11,902
It's a Mercedes benz ml430.
1135
01:15:17,675 --> 01:15:20,876
David: David d'amato has gone
out of his way to avoid us.
1136
01:15:20,978 --> 01:15:23,845
We figure if we wait outside
his apartment long enough,
1137
01:15:23,947 --> 01:15:25,913
eventually he'll have to leave.
1138
01:15:26,916 --> 01:15:29,082
Dylan: So, that's a Chevrolet.
1139
01:15:30,318 --> 01:15:31,684
Oh, hang on a second,
what's this?
1140
01:15:31,786 --> 01:15:32,885
What's this? What's this?
1141
01:15:33,687 --> 01:15:35,219
Okay, there's a car there.
I can see it.
1142
01:15:35,321 --> 01:15:37,487
Now, just in the edge. Hang on.
1143
01:15:43,528 --> 01:15:44,994
David: A grand cherokee.
1144
01:15:46,964 --> 01:15:48,229
Well, maybe just a cherokee.
1145
01:15:48,331 --> 01:15:50,197
But it's certainly
not a Mercedes.
1146
01:15:56,171 --> 01:15:59,372
- David: What's the time?
- Dylan: 2:44.
1147
01:15:59,474 --> 01:16:02,374
So we've been here for,
like, four hours?
1148
01:16:06,446 --> 01:16:09,246
David: We've been waiting
like this for days.
1149
01:16:10,515 --> 01:16:11,580
Dylan: Come on.
1150
01:16:11,582 --> 01:16:14,616
David: And it seems like
he'll never come out.
1151
01:16:16,820 --> 01:16:18,586
Dylan: Okay. Let me just check.
It's also...
1152
01:16:18,688 --> 01:16:23,724
It is the right type of car.
It's got white plates.
1153
01:16:24,359 --> 01:16:26,192
Hang on. Hang on. Okay.
1154
01:16:27,995 --> 01:16:29,594
It's him. It's him.
It's him. It's him.
1155
01:16:32,966 --> 01:16:34,932
He's coming out. Just wait here.
1156
01:16:35,034 --> 01:16:37,300
Just sit here.
All right, stay cool.
1157
01:16:38,403 --> 01:16:39,735
Okay, I'm gonna...
1158
01:16:46,876 --> 01:16:48,208
Okay, he's up here.
1159
01:16:55,883 --> 01:16:57,749
He's in the right-hand...
Is he in the left-hand Lane?
1160
01:16:57,851 --> 01:16:59,150
David: Yeah.
1161
01:17:02,353 --> 01:17:03,585
He hasn't turned right.
He's in...
1162
01:17:03,687 --> 01:17:04,752
Whoa! You're one car behind him.
1163
01:17:04,854 --> 01:17:07,621
You're right in his...
In his mirror now.
1164
01:17:25,838 --> 01:17:28,437
- I'm breathing heavily.
- Yeah, same.
1165
01:17:29,606 --> 01:17:32,106
Dylan: Okay. Okay. It's cool.
1166
01:17:32,241 --> 01:17:34,107
We're right behind him now,
so back off a bit,
1167
01:17:34,209 --> 01:17:35,674
so we're not gonna be too close.
1168
01:17:37,778 --> 01:17:39,344
Okay.
1169
01:17:40,714 --> 01:17:43,114
Just stay... stay back.
Stay back, David.
1170
01:17:43,416 --> 01:17:44,948
We're gonna have to
stop right behind him now.
1171
01:17:45,050 --> 01:17:47,016
You might have to take the
camera off the tripod, dom.
1172
01:17:48,185 --> 01:17:49,951
David: Yeah, camera
off tripod, please.
1173
01:17:51,721 --> 01:17:52,986
Dylan: Starbucks?
Okay, this is perfect.
1174
01:17:53,088 --> 01:17:54,287
David: Okay. He'll be a while.
1175
01:17:55,556 --> 01:17:57,855
Okay. I'm just gonna go and have
conversation when he comes out.
1176
01:18:00,059 --> 01:18:01,858
You've... I've got my
phone if you need me.
1177
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:03,292
Okay.
1178
01:18:15,372 --> 01:18:17,171
David: I'm about to meet
this man who's been
1179
01:18:17,273 --> 01:18:18,672
such a threatening figure
1180
01:18:18,774 --> 01:18:21,974
in so many lives,
including my own,
1181
01:18:23,711 --> 01:18:26,878
and I have simply no idea
what to expect.
1182
01:18:52,004 --> 01:18:55,138
- Dylan: He's coming out.
- David: Mr. d'amato.
1183
01:18:55,907 --> 01:18:58,474
- Hi, it's Dave farrier.
- D'amato:
1184
01:18:58,576 --> 01:19:00,208
David: Hey, how are you?
1185
01:19:01,477 --> 01:19:03,243
D'amato:
1186
01:19:03,411 --> 01:19:06,377
David: I just wanted
to talk to you briefly.
1187
01:19:07,246 --> 01:19:08,545
If I could.
1188
01:19:09,781 --> 01:19:12,314
Because I was just...
I'm just worried about...
1189
01:19:15,419 --> 01:19:16,851
The legal letters
you've sent me,
1190
01:19:16,986 --> 01:19:18,385
and I just wanted to know
if we could
1191
01:19:18,588 --> 01:19:20,287
just talk about it face-to-face.
1192
01:19:20,389 --> 01:19:23,123
D'amato:
1193
01:19:23,258 --> 01:19:24,590
David: Is there?
1194
01:19:24,692 --> 01:19:28,126
D'amato:
1195
01:19:35,201 --> 01:19:38,101
I'm on a journalism visa,
so I'm, I'm okay to be here.
1196
01:19:38,203 --> 01:19:40,035
I'm okay to be here.
But I just...
1197
01:19:42,205 --> 01:19:43,938
Could we just talk a
little bit about--
1198
01:19:44,907 --> 01:19:46,973
I just wanted to find
out what's going on.
1199
01:19:47,241 --> 01:19:48,540
D'amato:
1200
01:19:48,642 --> 01:19:52,142
Because the last heard I was
gonna be in a us court
1201
01:19:52,277 --> 01:19:53,376
and a New Zealand court,
1202
01:19:53,378 --> 01:19:56,011
and I really just wanted to
sort this out face-to-face.
1203
01:19:56,113 --> 01:19:57,345
D'amato:
1204
01:19:57,447 --> 01:19:58,779
And I just want to sort of...
1205
01:19:58,881 --> 01:20:00,280
I mean,
I'm not here to antagonize.
1206
01:20:00,382 --> 01:20:02,815
I just genuinely want
to be able to help out.
1207
01:20:02,917 --> 01:20:05,150
D'amato:
1208
01:20:05,252 --> 01:20:07,051
Well, you did say you were
gonna sue me.
1209
01:20:07,319 --> 01:20:09,152
And I just wanna sort this
issue out.
1210
01:20:10,588 --> 01:20:12,321
D'amato:
1211
01:20:12,423 --> 01:20:14,389
Could you contact me
if possible?
1212
01:20:38,914 --> 01:20:41,147
David: I went away feeling numb.
1213
01:20:41,415 --> 01:20:45,182
D'amato was calm, going
instantly to legal threats,
1214
01:20:45,684 --> 01:20:49,352
which is what he's always done,
I suppose, as Terri,
1215
01:20:49,854 --> 01:20:51,186
as Jane,
1216
01:20:51,821 --> 01:20:53,020
as himself.
1217
01:20:59,460 --> 01:21:02,727
But after all this, I still
couldn't help but wonder
1218
01:21:02,829 --> 01:21:04,728
were we totally certain that
d'amato
1219
01:21:04,830 --> 01:21:08,164
really was Jane and Debbie?
Could we be wrong?
1220
01:21:09,333 --> 01:21:11,666
So we went back to
where it all started,
1221
01:21:11,768 --> 01:21:13,267
those 300 domain names
1222
01:21:13,369 --> 01:21:16,002
connected to
the nederdietsen group.
1223
01:21:18,639 --> 01:21:21,339
And that's when things
went a little crazy.
1224
01:21:21,841 --> 01:21:23,240
On one of those
domain names
1225
01:21:23,342 --> 01:21:25,342
there was
just a directory listing,
1226
01:21:25,677 --> 01:21:28,577
including a folder called
"my documents".
1227
01:21:32,015 --> 01:21:33,781
It looks like d'amato
has accidently
1228
01:21:33,883 --> 01:21:36,750
made hundreds of his
private files public
1229
01:21:37,152 --> 01:21:38,518
on the Internet.
1230
01:21:44,158 --> 01:21:45,891
There's d'amato's signature
1231
01:21:45,959 --> 01:21:48,792
on a nederdietsen
registration form.
1232
01:21:51,696 --> 01:21:54,463
There's also a contract with
the investigation company
1233
01:21:54,565 --> 01:21:56,197
he hired to look into us.
1234
01:21:56,666 --> 01:21:58,465
The address is exactly the same
1235
01:21:58,567 --> 01:22:00,900
as the address used by
Jane o'brien media
1236
01:22:01,002 --> 01:22:03,902
when booking rooms at the
Hilton in New Zealand.
1237
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:08,973
Then there are documents
and signatures
1238
01:22:09,075 --> 01:22:11,741
for Debbie kuhn
and Jane o'brien...
1239
01:22:13,644 --> 01:22:16,244
Who's also got her
own credit card.
1240
01:22:17,413 --> 01:22:18,879
And it turns out that d'amato
1241
01:22:19,014 --> 01:22:21,147
did finally
get that law degree,
1242
01:22:21,249 --> 01:22:24,250
from hofstra university
in 2011.
1243
01:22:26,387 --> 01:22:29,388
He's also been telling the boys
to enter the United States
1244
01:22:29,490 --> 01:22:32,557
on a tourist visa,
even though they're working.
1245
01:22:34,060 --> 01:22:35,559
And it's finally clear to me
1246
01:22:35,661 --> 01:22:37,927
how he funds
his tickling empire.
1247
01:22:40,097 --> 01:22:41,663
As of late 2012,
1248
01:22:41,765 --> 01:22:45,098
he had almost six million
in his checking account.
1249
01:22:46,234 --> 01:22:48,968
And his living expenses were
being paid by a trust
1250
01:22:49,070 --> 01:22:50,969
established by his father.
1251
01:22:54,441 --> 01:22:57,275
He also inherited millions from
his mother's estate
1252
01:22:57,377 --> 01:22:59,409
when she died in 2014.
1253
01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:03,946
It's all family money.
1254
01:23:07,551 --> 01:23:09,484
There are also lots of emails
1255
01:23:09,586 --> 01:23:12,019
sent from Jane o'brien's
legal department.
1256
01:23:13,288 --> 01:23:17,089
With this in mind, we call
in to see Romeo salta,
1257
01:23:17,191 --> 01:23:19,491
the lawyer hired
by Jane o'brien media
1258
01:23:19,593 --> 01:23:22,093
who's been sending us all
the legal threats.
1259
01:23:22,862 --> 01:23:25,162
We want to ask him about
the correspondence
1260
01:23:25,264 --> 01:23:26,930
his office has sent us.
1261
01:23:27,432 --> 01:23:29,665
David: But I just thought
you'd be curious to see...
1262
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:32,433
Things been issued
in la county court,
1263
01:23:32,535 --> 01:23:34,468
that's signed off here
with your name.
1264
01:23:34,903 --> 01:23:37,603
There's another example of that
with that email address.
1265
01:23:37,705 --> 01:23:38,603
Romeo: Yeah.
1266
01:23:38,605 --> 01:23:41,305
To that, as opposed to you.
I mean, we got the one
from you originally,
1267
01:23:41,307 --> 01:23:43,006
which we... it's fine. We don't
need to talk about that.
1268
01:23:43,108 --> 01:23:45,007
It's very simple.
I only sent one.
1269
01:23:45,109 --> 01:23:46,174
Dylan: Yeah.
1270
01:23:46,276 --> 01:23:47,341
David: Yeah.
1271
01:23:47,443 --> 01:23:48,842
- There's your answer.
- Yeah.
1272
01:23:50,412 --> 01:23:52,178
Romeo: I'll see what I can do to
make those stop.
1273
01:23:52,280 --> 01:23:53,612
Have they stopped?
1274
01:23:53,780 --> 01:23:55,146
Dylan: Uh, we haven't heard
anything for a little while.
1275
01:23:55,248 --> 01:23:56,280
They're listing your address
1276
01:23:56,382 --> 01:23:58,014
as their corporate headquarters,
though.
1277
01:24:00,118 --> 01:24:01,817
- My address?
- Yeah, if you look at...
1278
01:24:01,919 --> 01:24:02,984
David: Your office.
1279
01:24:04,487 --> 01:24:05,553
Dylan: Janeobrienmedia.Com,
1280
01:24:05,554 --> 01:24:06,620
your address is listed as their
corporate headquarters.
1281
01:24:06,989 --> 01:24:08,888
Yeah, but it's not my--
1282
01:24:08,990 --> 01:24:10,489
Dylan: No, no.
On their website at the bottom.
1283
01:24:10,591 --> 01:24:12,290
Romeo: But it's not, um...
1284
01:24:12,659 --> 01:24:14,058
Dylan: I don't know if it's...
1285
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:15,325
It says
"office of corporate counsel
1286
01:24:15,427 --> 01:24:16,692
and New York headquarters."
1287
01:24:16,794 --> 01:24:18,059
Romeo: Well, that's my address.
1288
01:24:19,495 --> 01:24:21,111
David: Yeah.
1289
01:24:21,112 --> 01:24:22,728
- But it's not their...
- It's crazy. But it's...
1290
01:24:22,897 --> 01:24:25,330
Um, I mean,
is this weird to you?
1291
01:24:25,432 --> 01:24:26,664
That this person
has taken on--
1292
01:24:26,732 --> 01:24:27,997
it is. Of course, it's weird.
1293
01:24:33,503 --> 01:24:35,803
David: Almost every legal letter
we'd received from
1294
01:24:35,905 --> 01:24:37,371
from salta was fake.
1295
01:24:37,639 --> 01:24:40,273
Like so many things
connected to d'amato,
1296
01:24:40,375 --> 01:24:41,907
they were all just lies,
1297
01:24:42,442 --> 01:24:45,643
lies to support his addiction
to tickling videos.
1298
01:24:49,048 --> 01:24:52,482
I started this journey curious
about a bizarre sport
1299
01:24:52,584 --> 01:24:54,917
called competitive
endurance tickling,
1300
01:24:55,586 --> 01:24:58,753
but I now think this was
never even about tickling.
1301
01:25:01,724 --> 01:25:05,025
This is about power,
control and harassment.
1302
01:25:05,527 --> 01:25:07,627
It's about one person's
twistedness
1303
01:25:07,729 --> 01:25:09,695
and how far that can go.
1304
01:25:09,797 --> 01:25:12,697
One person who's managed to
shelter himself with money
1305
01:25:12,799 --> 01:25:15,099
to keep his obsession going.
1306
01:25:15,701 --> 01:25:17,867
But now it's his life exposed.
1307
01:25:18,202 --> 01:25:20,969
For once, it's him on camera.
1308
01:25:26,409 --> 01:25:27,608
Before we leave America,
1309
01:25:27,710 --> 01:25:30,711
there's one last phone call
I want to make.
1310
01:25:30,813 --> 01:25:32,879
It's a name we found
in the documents,
1311
01:25:32,981 --> 01:25:36,548
one of David d'amato's last
surviving family members.
1312
01:25:38,284 --> 01:25:39,349
Dorothy: Hello?
1313
01:25:39,451 --> 01:25:42,318
- Oh, hi. Is that Dorothy?
- Yes.
1314
01:25:42,420 --> 01:25:44,386
Oh, hi. My name's David farrier,
1315
01:25:44,488 --> 01:25:47,455
I'm a journalist from
New Zealand. How are you?
1316
01:25:47,990 --> 01:25:49,456
- Okay.
- Yeah, good.
1317
01:25:49,558 --> 01:25:51,057
Hey, sorry, it's probably a bit
of a strange call
1318
01:25:51,159 --> 01:25:52,224
to receive out of the blue,
1319
01:25:52,459 --> 01:25:56,994
but I'm doing a story about,
uh, David d'amato.
1320
01:25:59,231 --> 01:26:02,531
- Oh, in what way?
- Um...
1321
01:26:03,667 --> 01:26:05,733
He's been... it's the...
1322
01:26:05,901 --> 01:26:08,134
He's sort of back to the
tickling stuff again.
1323
01:26:08,569 --> 01:26:09,834
Oh, he is?
1324
01:26:09,936 --> 01:26:13,169
- Yeah, he is.
- Oh, god!
1325
01:26:14,338 --> 01:26:16,705
Well, I will tell you that,
1326
01:26:16,807 --> 01:26:20,474
um, I have no contact
with him at all.
1327
01:26:21,844 --> 01:26:24,477
I mean, did you think all this
had sort of come to an end?
1328
01:26:25,012 --> 01:26:27,078
I did think, of course,
it came to an end,
1329
01:26:27,180 --> 01:26:30,514
because he served time,
which I'm sure you know.
1330
01:26:30,616 --> 01:26:31,681
Mm.
1331
01:26:31,783 --> 01:26:34,049
But I don't understand, um...
1332
01:26:36,486 --> 01:26:39,419
I don't understand why he
went back to doing this.
1333
01:26:41,089 --> 01:26:44,489
I'm, like, in shock. How long
has he been doing this?
1334
01:26:46,326 --> 01:26:48,025
It's never stopped.
1335
01:26:52,664 --> 01:26:55,264
I think he has a
split personality.
1336
01:26:55,366 --> 01:26:58,766
He's like that fine line
between genius and insanity.
1337
01:27:01,637 --> 01:27:05,405
I don't know if he's gay
or he's asexual,
1338
01:27:05,507 --> 01:27:08,907
but he's never had a girlfriend
that I ever knew of.
1339
01:27:10,543 --> 01:27:13,043
I asked my husband once, um,
1340
01:27:13,145 --> 01:27:16,246
if he would be upset if
he found out he was gay.
1341
01:27:16,348 --> 01:27:21,017
And he said that he would be
upset but he would get over it.
1342
01:27:21,119 --> 01:27:22,751
But he was an only child,
1343
01:27:22,853 --> 01:27:25,686
and, you know, he wanted
grandchildren.
1344
01:27:28,357 --> 01:27:31,724
He had a very,
very strange childhood.
1345
01:27:32,693 --> 01:27:36,961
The kids used to make
fun of him all the time.
1346
01:27:37,129 --> 01:27:39,596
And she used to...
She... his mother.
1347
01:27:39,698 --> 01:27:41,864
He was very close
to his mother.
1348
01:27:42,466 --> 01:27:44,933
And his mother was very
protective of him.
1349
01:27:45,035 --> 01:27:50,271
She never let him ride a bike
or go skiing or do anything
1350
01:27:50,373 --> 01:27:52,639
because she was always afraid
that he would get hurt.
1351
01:27:53,541 --> 01:27:54,873
And from what I understand,
1352
01:27:54,975 --> 01:27:56,708
the kids used to come around
the house,
1353
01:27:56,810 --> 01:27:58,309
and they used to
make fun of him.
1354
01:27:58,411 --> 01:28:01,945
And once they locked him
in a locker in school.
1355
01:28:05,884 --> 01:28:07,483
And, you know,
he was a teacher...
1356
01:28:08,819 --> 01:28:10,652
And they threw him
out of school.
1357
01:28:11,187 --> 01:28:13,287
You know, I was afraid of him,
1358
01:28:13,822 --> 01:28:18,724
because I'm alone and, um...
Yeah, I was afraid of him.
1359
01:28:18,826 --> 01:28:22,093
So, you know,
I'm afraid of him.